Flood Evidences — revised

[Dan From Smithville]

They seem to catch on pretty quickly to changing technologies.

They probably had their native talents just as we do today.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Who has claimed it was a single, historic event?

The story could have arisen from the periodic and sizable flooding of the region that you consider as the source. I think the important point is that the story as it is written in Genesis does not describe an actual event, but is the embellishment on actual events.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't know where they went. Probably out looking for flash-frozen mammoth burgers.

Darn,fresh out. I do have frozen dinosaur burgers in my freezer at home.

 

[sooda]

The story could have arisen from the periodic and sizable flooding of the region that you consider as the source. I think the important point is that the story as it is written in Genesis does not describe an actual event, but is the embellishment on actual events.

The geology indicates that the combination of spring rains and snowmelt causing flooding was infrequent.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The geology indicates that the combination of spring rains and snowmelt causing flooding was infrequent.

Having experienced first hand, the flood of '93, and how it effected the region, a similar example experienced by a less knowledgeable population could result in some wild tales. That particular event is touted as a once in 500 years event, but just this year, the Mississippi River was in flood stage for far longer than it was in 1993.

It is reasonable to speculate that the Tigris and Euphrates systems could experience their own long term floods of significant scope but limited frequency.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Darn,fresh out. I do have frozen dinosaur burgers in my freezer at home.

That's good eatin' too. Thanks to the heat generated by the Chicxulub impact and the subsequent "nuclear" winter, not only are they often found flash frozen, but pre-cooked too.

 

[sooda]

Having experienced first hand, the flood of '93, and how it effected the region, a similar example experienced by a less knowledgeable population could result in some wild tales. That particular event is touted as a once in 500 years event, but just this year, the Mississippi River was in flood stage for far longer than it was in 1993.

It is reasonable to speculate that the Tigris and Euphrates systems could experience their own long term floods of significant scope but limited frequency.

That's what the topography indicates.

 

[Jose Fly]

You can't prove that wrong. Old Nick, he is one gollywompsious miscreant that is in control of everything sciency. And businessy. And politically. And...

He's a busy guy all right.

Funny, I did not know that J & W brand had been around for 200 years.

Oh my bad. I meant that the scientific community rejected the Biblical flood 200 years ago.

I believe in the Two Witness Doctrine. If two people did not witness it, it didn't happen. Not just two people. But two very, very, very special people.

Lol...nice.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

How can you on one hand claim that ghosts are real because people have seen them, but then refer to Greek, Roman, and Norse gods as "myths".....when lots of people have claimed to see them?

Finally, I'm always curious when I see folks like you make serious accusations against a large group of people, even though you are completely unable to substantiate the accusation...do you just not feel any moral obligation at all to be more careful in throwing around blanket accusations? Or do you figure that since non-flood believing scientists are your enemy, you're free to do whatever you want?

Do Jehovah's Witnesses have a doctrine or teaching that says it's okay to lie in certain circumstances? I ask because you're certainly not the first JW here to do this sort of thing.

My goodness! I'm not lying!
The point is, people like Winston Churchill and others definitely saw something metaphysical, ie., beyond the natural, when they observed "Lincoln".
But the Bible says "the dead know nothing."

So I believe -- unlike most Christians, but probably like you -- that the dead are dead, but events like what occurred w/Churchill, happen all the time!

What's the deal?

Let me ask you this....there are RF members who claim to speak regularly w/ their gods, or their spirit guides, or some spirit entity. Do you think they're all nuts?


I don't, I believe they're really communicating with invisible beings, who may include the ones mentioned as "sons of God", angels, who rebelled against Jehovah before the Flood, in Genesis 6:1-4. They became the demons, entities that have no concern for humans!

They pretend to be gods, or ghosts... or anything to mislead. UFO's could be caused by them. The Bible tells us all we need to know. As Revelation 12:9 says.... "And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."

And yes, the myths of Greece, Rome, etc., were based on the activities of these beings before the Flood. (Genesis 6:1-4, again; Jude 1:6...Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling--these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day..

 

[Dan From Smithville]

My goodness! I'm not lying!
The point is, people like Winston Churchill and others definitely saw something metaphysical, ie., beyond the natural, when they observed "Lincoln".
But the Bible says "the dead know nothing."

So I believe -- unlike most Christians, but probably like you -- that the dead are dead, but events like what occurred w/Churchill, happen all the time!

What's the deal?

Let me ask you this....there are RF members who claim to speak regularly w/ their gods, or their spirit guides, or some spirit entity. Do you think they're all nuts?


I don't, I believe they're really communicating with invisible beings, who may include the ones mentioned as "sons of God", angels, who rebelled against Jehovah before the Flood, in Genesis 6:1-4. They became the demons, entities that have no concern for humans!

They pretend to be gods, or ghosts... or anything to mislead. UFO's could be caused by them. The Bible tells us all we need to know. As Revelation 12:9 says.... "And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."

And yes, the myths of Greece, Rome, etc., were based on the activities of these beings before the Flood. (Genesis 6:1-4, again; Jude 1:6...Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling--these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day..

How do you know that these stories are true? How do you know that the people that are claimed to have seen something actually saw something? If they did see something, how do you know what it was that they saw?

You are taking this all on faith since it fits your views and without one shred of evidence. Maybe Queen Wilhelmina passed out for some other reason and a wild story was concocted as both an explanation and a diversion. Having no evidence, how would you refute that possible explanation? A flash-frozen Queen Wilhelmina with tulips in her mouth?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

A flash-frozen Queen Wilhelmina with tulips in her mouth?

Why are you being a jerk?

I was thinking about how to reply, until this.

Too bad. I won't read any more responses from you.

(Those here who speak w/ their invisible gods, you conveniently left them out.)

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Why are you being a jerk?

I was thinking about how to reply, until this.

Too bad. I won't read any more responses from you.

(Those here who speak w/ their invisible gods, you conveniently left them out.)

I was not being a jerk. Well, that last part about the tulips, but come on. You know this stuff is true. How could you possibly? We have some claims and nothing more. All of the rest is speculation based on personal bias.

 

[Audie]

The geology indicates that the combination of spring rains and snowmelt causing flooding was infrequent.

Link us to some research paper. Vague words like
"infrequent" are useless in this context.

 

[sooda]

Link us to some research paper. Vague words like
"infrequent" are useless in this context.

Infrequent means it didn't flood every year.

I don't have an academic paper, but you can probably locate something. Oil exploration has been carried out in the region for over 80 years.

Its just not that complicated or mysterious.

 

[Twilight Hue]

A creoquirk is that they cannot distinguish the
ToE from abio, and often even mix the BB
in there! Now it is mixing up how the earth
formed with glaciology!

HOW the earth formed has nothing to do with
later processes such as erosion, deposition,
vulcanism etc. May as well say you cannot study
auto mechanics unless understand the origin
of the universe

With thousands of geologists, often with serious
economic incentive for their research, working for
many years, they have actually gotten pretty good
at a lot of things.

One thing is for sure, the chance that you know more
than any / all of them after doing no study, no field
work and giving it thought is somewhere in the
negative range.

I have seen self deception any number of times, but
how you can believe you are that good is a mystery
to me.

It's a phenomena quite common among religious that involves an incredible sense of narcissism.

When a Narcissist “Gets Religion,” You Get Screwed!

It's quite amazing and explains quite a lot.

While I think we all have a touch of it, others takes their narcissism to an art form.

 

[Audie]

It's a phenomena quite common among religious that involves an incredible sense of narcissism.

When a Narcissist “Gets Religion,” You Get Screwed!

It's quite amazing and explains quite a lot.

While I think we all have a touch of it, others takes their narcissism to an art form.

\What a story!

 

[Audie]

Infrequent means it didn't flood every year.

I don't have an academic paper, but you can probably locate something. Oil exploration has been carried out in the region for over 80 years.

Its just not that complicated or mysterious.

I am aware of oil exploration. i've sat and helped
to go through the cuttings as they came up from
2000 ft below a kansas wheatfield.

I am no geologist but I do know that a flood plain
is, like beside the river and it floods. Over and over.
Big and little. In drought, the river cuts deeper, in
rainy seasons is aggrades its bed.

No doubt the subsurface geology of the Tigris Euphrates
shows a lot of flood strata.
There could be one that is observably the thickest and most
extensive. Possible if unlikely that it coincides with the
ostensible date for the "flood".

If a person wants to make a case for that, then they
should produce some data.

As for your presentation that you know just when and
where, even to the cargo manifest, the "ark" story
originated, that seems to me highly improbable,
and nothing but your assertions has been presented.

 

[sooda]

I am aware of oil exploration. i've sat and helped
to go through the cuttings as they came up from
2000 ft below a kansas wheatfield.

I am no geologist but I do know that a flood plain
is, like beside the river and it floods. Over and over.
Big and little. In drought, the river cuts deeper, in
rainy seasons is aggrades its bed.

No doubt the subsurface geology of the Tigris Euphrates
shows a lot of flood strata.
There could be one that is observably the thickest and most
extensive. Possible if unlikely that it coincides with the
ostensible date for the "flood".

If a person wants to make a case for that, then they
should produce some data.

As for your presentation that you know just when and
where, even to the cargo manifest, the "ark" story
originated, that seems to me highly improbable,
and nothing but your assertions has been presented.

Data on the sediment has been published .. its quite thick as I recall. We know the king sold grain down river.

Ziusudra - Wikipedia

excerpt

The city of Kish flourished in the Early Dynastic period soon after a river flood archaeologically attested by sedimentary strata at Shuruppak (modern Tell Fara), Uruk, Kish, and other sites, all of which have been radiocarbon dated to ca. 2900 BC.[6]

Polychrome pottery from the Jemdet Nasr period (ca. 30th century BC), which immediately preceded the Early Dynastic I period, was discovered directly below the Shuruppak flood stratum.[6][7] The appearance of Ziusudra's name on the WB-62 king list therefore links the flood mentioned in the three surviving Babylonian deluge epics—the Eridu Genesis, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and the Epic of Atra-Hasis—to these river flood sediments.[citation needed] Max Mallowan wrote that "we know from the Weld Blundell prism that at the time of the Flood, Ziusudra, ….

 

[Audie]

Data on the sediment has been published .. its quite thick as I recall. We know the king sold grain down river.

Ziusudra - Wikipedia

excerpt

The city of Kish flourished in the Early Dynastic period soon after a river flood archaeologically attested by sedimentary strata at Shuruppak (modern Tell Fara), Uruk, Kish, and other sites, all of which have been radiocarbon dated to ca. 2900 BC.[6]

Polychrome pottery from the Jemdet Nasr period (ca. 30th century BC), which immediately preceded the Early Dynastic I period, was discovered directly below the Shuruppak flood stratum.[6][7] The appearance of Ziusudra's name on the WB-62 king list therefore links the flood mentioned in the three surviving Babylonian deluge epics—the Eridu Genesis, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and the Epic of Atra-Hasis—to these river flood sediments.[citation needed] Max Mallowan wrote that "we know from the Weld Blundell prism that at the time of the Flood, Ziusudra, ….

Of course there is a lot of sediment.

In many many "layers".

That is freaking typical of flood plains.

Historical novels tend to put in real place
and person names.

It is of course conceivable that some sort
of fluffled up story about some flood was
current in the day, and contributed to the bible
story, which itself has no facts in it other than
the nouns.

I do though object to your flat statements of
certainty.

 

[sooda]

Of course there is a lot of sediment.

In many many "layers".

That is freaking typical of flood plains.

Historical novels tend to put in real place
and person names.

It is of course conceivable that some sort
of fluffled up story about some flood was
current in the day, and contributed to the bible
story, which itself has no facts in it other than
the nouns.

I do though object to your flat statements of
certainty.

Yes. it is typical of flood plains so why are we having this conversation? Why do you think its called the Fertile Crescent?