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Flood Evidences — revised

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Global Flood evidence:

***1.Vast herds of grazing animals, perhaps millions of them, discovered within the permafrost (called muck fields by some, due to the mud mixed in from previous melting), in the Alaskan and Yukon regions. In the Siberian permafrost, a few have been discovered upright, with food (some which only grows in temperate climates) discovered still unchewed in their mouths, like the Berezovka Mammoth. (They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)

http://www.amendez.com/Noahs Ark Articles/NAS Worldwide Mammal Massacre.pdf

The question is raised — and properly so: “How could a Global Flood cause such freezing temperatures?” Keep in mind, some of the water (not most...most were from the “vast springs” underneath the ground) came from above, from the atmosphere....the troposphere?...the mesosphere?...the stratosphere? The Bible doesn’t say, it is silent. (Maybe from all five.) But the waters existing above the Earth prior to the Flood, resulted in mild temperatures, and pleasantly warm.... similar to a greenhouse effect, worldwide. (That’s why Adam & Eve could go naked, and be very comfortable.) Yes, the Bible indicates there were seasons, but apparently mild ones.

All of that drastically changed, with the break in this vapor(?) / ice (?) canopy! Temperatures would drop suddenly!

***2.This project, completed by physics students of the University of Leicester, provides an interesting conclusion:
‘Noah’s Ark would have floated’.

And this one:
Could Noah’s Ark Float? In Theory, Yes | Science | Smithsonian

Further information:
Noah’s Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research center KRISO, based in Daejeon, South Korea. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.
The research team found that the proportions of Noah’s Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability (resistance to capsizing), comfort (“seakeeping”), and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.


The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m). Dr. Hong is now director general of the facility and claims “life came from the sea,” obviously not the words of a creationist on a mission to promote the worldwide Flood. Endorsing the seaworthiness of Noah’s Ark obviously did not damage Dr. Hong’s credibility.

Dr. Seon Won Hong was principal research scientist when he headed up the Noah’s Ark investigation. In May 2005 Dr. Hong was appointed director general of MOERI (formerly KRISO). Dr. Hong earned a B.S. degree in naval architecture from Seoul National University and a Ph.D. degree in applied mechanics from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

***3.Coupled with that, the dimensions of the Ark, a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability! Only in the last 2 centuries have ship builders recognized that these proportions are perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?

***4.The numerous Flood legends (exceeding 250, one anthropologist says near 1,000), that share many similarities, some strikingly so, that indicates a common source.



***5.Furthermore, the Bible indicates, in Psalms 104, that the Flood was the cause of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (With the underground waters spewing upward, the land would, by necessity, settle downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, did not exist before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. Some were even underwater prior to the Flood — see #6. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)

***6.[related to #5]The marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating (again) that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) All remain exposed....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones died at the Flood!!

***7.Where did all the water go? Apparently, it’s still here, at the Earth. If we again take into account what Psalms 104 reveals — that it was the Flood that caused our current topography, the very high mountains and low valleys, then the Earth’s terrain was somewhat smoother than now. (And Genesis tells us, the highest mountain was covered by around 22 ft. of the water.) It’s been determined that if the Earth was smoothed out like a billiard ball, the present water in all the ocean and lake basins would cover the planet to a depth of 2.5 miles! More than enough.....yet, scientists have discovered even more water in the Earth’s mantle, estimated to be almost 10 times as much as exists on our surface! So, that presents no obstacle!

***8.The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8”. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!

Are you of the mindset that, when reading about God causing a global Flood, you don’t think He’d use His power throughout other aspects of the event? Or afterwards? Let’s see what the Genesis account reveals: He brought the waters above and below to Earth’s surface....He gave Noah instructions on building the Ark, providing those ideal proportions....He brought the animals to Noah (No, Noah didn’t have to go get them, as some dishonestly purport.)....and He closed the door. Only those w/ closed minds would assume (want to, maybe?) that God’s power stopped there. Is He somehow incapable of protecting the occupants in the Ark, or the plant life underneath the waters? Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain every aspect involved? If He brought the animal to Noah, is it too much of a stretch to believe that Jehovah redistributed them to their former locations after the Flood?

Jehovah God is not required to explain anything more to us....what we do know, the evidence, is enough to build faith in the account.

Another indirect line of evidence, as to why God would cause such a catastrophe, are the Greek, Roman, Hindu, Norse, etc., myths describing “gods” interacting w/ humans, having relations w/ women, and producing offspring. (Since most all myths have some kernel of truth, this common narrative between them, of gods having sex w/ human females & bearing children, must be it.) It parallels Genesis 6:1-4, and explains to some extent why Jehovah had to step in, to thwart the eventual subjugation of the human race into sex slavery. But these “myths” created after the event, have kept it living in the collective mind of the human race.

Don't believe for a moment the resident trolls will add evidence to faith, or even belief!
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
"Now the "vapor canopy" would form a part of the atmosphere, being a body of gas (water vapor) gravitationally held to the earth. It would in fact be most of the pre-flood atmosphere. There would have to be enough vapor to form 9km of liquid, when condensed, and, therefore the vapor would weigh as much as 9km of water. The pressure at the earth's surface, where Noah and family lived, would be equal to one atmosphere PLUS the weight of a 9km column of water of unit area. This is equivalent to the pressure 9km deep in the ocean. What is this pressure? Well, each 10m of water is roughly equivalent to one atmosphere, so the pressure would be 900 atmospheres. The atmosphere would also have a composition of about 900 parts water vapor to one part of what we call air today.

How could an atmosphere almost 100% water vapor not condense? The temperature would have to be raised to the point where the partial pressure of water equals 900 atmospheres, i.e. the boiling point at that pressure. So we find Noah et al. living in a 13,000psi boiler"

The Vapor Canopy Hypothesis Holds No Water
True, If you do not consider that the earth's gravitational field was only slightly less than today.
And if you throw into your calculation that you want to have 900 parts of water to one part of air.
Now, perhaps you would be so kind as to tell everyone on what preassure difference one have between a clear sky, and one with clouds.
Then what will the Miilibar difference be between a morning with fogg and one that is clear.
This is absurdity at its best pal!
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
Anyhow, I have to leave now.
You silly Atheists!
Whales on a ship to save them from water!

It is hilarious!!!
:rolleyes:
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So, it does not matter what anyone say, you have this argument.
Not even if one considers that there is no evidence that there are water out in space!
No, no...
I did not say WATER!!!
I said ICE!!!
ICE and DIRT like COMMETS have!
:D
No, you simply need proper evidence. Not bogus YouTube videos.

And please, learn some physics. Ice has mass. Just the potential energy alone coming from space would could Noah and his magic boat.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Global Flood evidence:

***1.Vast herds of grazing animals, perhaps millions of them, discovered within the permafrost (called muck fields by some, due to the mud mixed in from previous melting), in the Alaskan and Yukon regions. In the Siberian permafrost, a few have been discovered upright, with food (some which only grows in temperate climates) discovered still unchewed in their mouths, like the Berezovka Mammoth. (They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)

http://www.amendez.com/Noahs Ark Articles/NAS Worldwide Mammal Massacre.pdf

The question is raised — and properly so: “How could a Global Flood cause such freezing temperatures?” Keep in mind, some of the water (not most...most were from the “vast springs” underneath the ground) came from above, from the atmosphere....the troposphere?...the mesosphere?...the stratosphere? The Bible doesn’t say, it is silent. (Maybe from all five.) But the waters existing above the Earth prior to the Flood, resulted in mild temperatures, and pleasantly warm.... similar to a greenhouse effect, worldwide. (That’s why Adam & Eve could go naked, and be very comfortable.) Yes, the Bible indicates there were seasons, but apparently mild ones.

All of that drastically changed, with the break in this vapor(?) / ice (?) canopy! Temperatures would drop suddenly!

***2.This project, completed by physics students of the University of Leicester, provides an interesting conclusion:
‘Noah’s Ark would have floated’.

And this one:
Could Noah’s Ark Float? In Theory, Yes | Science | Smithsonian

Further information:
Noah’s Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research center KRISO, based in Daejeon, South Korea. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.
The research team found that the proportions of Noah’s Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability (resistance to capsizing), comfort (“seakeeping”), and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.


The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m). Dr. Hong is now director general of the facility and claims “life came from the sea,” obviously not the words of a creationist on a mission to promote the worldwide Flood. Endorsing the seaworthiness of Noah’s Ark obviously did not damage Dr. Hong’s credibility.

Dr. Seon Won Hong was principal research scientist when he headed up the Noah’s Ark investigation. In May 2005 Dr. Hong was appointed director general of MOERI (formerly KRISO). Dr. Hong earned a B.S. degree in naval architecture from Seoul National University and a Ph.D. degree in applied mechanics from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

***3.Coupled with that, the dimensions of the Ark, a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability! Only in the last 2 centuries have ship builders recognized that these proportions are perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?

***4.The numerous Flood legends (exceeding 250, one anthropologist says near 1,000), that share many similarities, some strikingly so, that indicates a common source.



***5.Furthermore, the Bible indicates, in Psalms 104, that the Flood was the cause of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (With the underground waters spewing upward, the land would, by necessity, settle downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, did not exist before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. Some were even underwater prior to the Flood — see #6. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)

***6.[related to #5]The marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating (again) that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) All remain exposed....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones died at the Flood!!

***7.Where did all the water go? Apparently, it’s still here, at the Earth. If we again take into account what Psalms 104 reveals — that it was the Flood that caused our current topography, the very high mountains and low valleys, then the Earth’s terrain was somewhat smoother than now. (And Genesis tells us, the highest mountain was covered by around 22 ft. of the water.) It’s been determined that if the Earth was smoothed out like a billiard ball, the present water in all the ocean and lake basins would cover the planet to a depth of 2.5 miles! More than enough.....yet, scientists have discovered even more water in the Earth’s mantle, estimated to be almost 10 times as much as exists on our surface! So, that presents no obstacle!

***8.The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8”. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!

Are you of the mindset that, when reading about God causing a global Flood, you don’t think He’d use His power throughout other aspects of the event? Or afterwards? Let’s see what the Genesis account reveals: He brought the waters above and below to Earth’s surface....He gave Noah instructions on building the Ark, providing those ideal proportions....He brought the animals to Noah (No, Noah didn’t have to go get them, as some dishonestly purport.)....and He closed the door. Only those w/ closed minds would assume (want to, maybe?) that God’s power stopped there. Is He somehow incapable of protecting the occupants in the Ark, or the plant life underneath the waters? Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain every aspect involved? If He brought the animal to Noah, is it too much of a stretch to believe that Jehovah redistributed them to their former locations after the Flood?

Jehovah God is not required to explain anything more to us....what we do know, the evidence, is enough to build faith in the account.

Another indirect line of evidence, as to why God would cause such a catastrophe, are the Greek, Roman, Hindu, Norse, etc., myths describing “gods” interacting w/ humans, having relations w/ women, and producing offspring. (Since most all myths have some kernel of truth, this common narrative between them, of gods having sex w/ human females & bearing children, must be it.) It parallels Genesis 6:1-4, and explains to some extent why Jehovah had to step in, to thwart the eventual subjugation of the human race into sex slavery. But these “myths” created after the event, have kept it living in the collective mind of the human race.

We see well illustrated the dim quality of thought
and the reckless play with "facts" that goes into
being a JW,
 

sooda

Veteran Member
I'll focus on this point first. When are you alleging "the Flood" happened? And how much lower are you claiming the Himalayas were at the time? How much water do YOU think was required to flood the whole Earth at the time of "the Flood"? Please show your working.

Scientists Find Half-Billion-Year-Old Ancestral Mountains ...
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/10/031006071157.htm
Oct 06, 2003 · Scientists Find Half-Billion-Year-Old Ancestral Mountains In The Himalaya. They have dated rocks that show Earth's mightiest range is predated by ancestral mountains that existed in the same area between 450 million and 500 million years ago, long before India began plowing northward into Asia 55 million years ago.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
It is sad some people are so keen to try to prove the flood story, which has no credibility, to be factual.:rolleyes:

Well, from the pov of an atheist, it just shows
how absurd the rest of their beliefs are.
I am find with them keeping it up.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
The problems with such claims have obviously never been considered by our creationist bretheren.

BTW, a friend of mine uses geothermal heating in his gite complex including outdoor heated pool. I believe they bore down only a little over 300 metres.

Well now that does vary a lot.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Nothing is revised. These are the same sad arguments you have made before. All of it was explained to you.

Your buttercup mammoth is a BS story.

Thank you for this lovely example of denialism.

Of course it is bs. But done in the usual
con man style, mixing some facts in here
and there in support of conclusions that
the mark wants to heat.

His quotes are from the usual woo woo sites.
If it were not woo woo, then, there might
at least be the occasional mention of some
of it in like an actual research paper here
and there.

No facts support anything about
JW or the flood, hence, they gotta
do woo woo.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
No, you simply need proper evidence. Not bogus YouTube videos.

And please, learn some physics. Ice has mass. Just the potential energy alone coming from space would could Noah and his magic boat.
OK, so what is the mass, and what is the weight of a satelite in orbit around the earth.
And I told you not too look at my links.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
Scientists Find Half-Billion-Year-Old Ancestral Mountains ...
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/10/031006071157.htm
Oct 06, 2003 · Scientists Find Half-Billion-Year-Old Ancestral Mountains In The Himalaya. They have dated rocks that show Earth's mightiest range is predated by ancestral mountains that existed in the same area between 450 million and 500 million years ago, long before India began plowing northward into Asia 55 million years ago.

Then again, how do you date the Mountain?
By the rocks.
And the Rocks?
By Radio isotope tests on its decay!
And what does the decay rate say.
The Minirals are 500 million years old.
What does the tests say?
The rocks are old.
And, does it contradict with what the Bible say?
Not at all, because the Bible say the matter in the Earth is 600 years PLUS and period of unmeasurable time which can be billions of years!
What does this link tell us about the Himalyas's formation?
There were ancestral mountains that is now subdued below the current mountains.!
Wow, so this fits in with what the Bible and Nebular theory say!
Before the flood the mountains were not as high, and this is the ancestral mountains.
During the flood, a huge catastrophy produced an upheavel and made the current Himalyas!

Wow!
The Bible is true!
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
The mass of a satellite is the same mass as it had on Earth. Don't you know what mass is?
Thats what I asked?
Mass, and Weight!
Please read with care.
I discovered a long time ago that Atheists can not grasp what they read.
This is why they do not understand the Bible.
It is in written format
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Then again, how do you date the Mountain?
By the rocks.
And the Rocks?
By Radio isotope tests on its decay!
And what does the decay rate say.
The Minirals are 500 million years old.
What does the tests say?
The rocks are old.
And, does it contradict with what the Bible say?
Not at all, because the Bible say the matter in the Earth is 600 years PLUS and period of unmeasurable time which can be billions of years!
What does this link tell us about the Himalyas's formation?
There were ancestral mountains that is now subdued below the current mountains.!
Wow, so this fits in with what the Bible and Nebular theory say!
Before the flood the mountains were not as high, and this is the ancestral mountains.
During the flood, a huge catastrophy produced an upheavel and made the current Himalyas!

Wow!
The Bible is true!

Yes, we can date certain rocks. They tell us how old the mountains are. It would take over 5 vertical miles of water to cover the Earth, and yet there is no evidence that that happened ever.

Moving water leaves marks. We can observe and date much smaller, and often older floods. Yet we don't see any evidence for the one flood that should be undeniable.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Thats what I asked?
Mass, and Weight!
Please read with care.
I discovered a long time ago that Atheists can not grasp what they read.
This is why they do not understand the Bible.
It is in written format


You asked a nonsensical question that only tells us that you have no clue.

Once again water has mass. Just in case you forgot your high school physics the formulas you need to remember is KE = (1/2)mv^2 and PE = mgh.


The water from space problem means that you would cook Noah. You would have both KE and PE. PE alone would cook them.

And please, don't lie about not understanding the Bible. My understanding is almost certainly far superior to yours. You at best can focus on some insignificant bits but miss the big picture because you let your own religious beliefs get in the way.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Well now that does vary a lot.

It varies from place to place but his hot water is a constant 52 c, has been for the last 8 years. It keeps the place snug and the pool warm, i have enjoyed a swim in it on Christmas day with 3 inches of snow on the ground
 
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