Flood Evidences — revised

[Dan From Smithville]

Didn’t I say that? I said “levitation”.

But then I went on to describe how Jehovah God required a display of faith. Following God’s instructions on building the Ark, was Noah’s display. (The Ark with those ideally workable ratios I might add. Which, in itself, is evidence of its authenticity.)

And then, in different ways you keep implying, ‘there’s no evidence’….



But the OP provides it!

The facts “demand answers.”
The Permafrost exists. And the animals within it, which global warming is revealing more and more. Why is the Permafrost there? How did that fresh water get there? And how did the animals get frozen & (some remains of them) preserved within it?

Or do you doubt these things?

The claims of the OP were long ago refuted. I was there for this journey too.

What is your explanation of how these frozen animals ended up in the permafrost, given that instantaneous freezing due to global flood as described would not be a physical possibility of such an event?

You said they were evidence of a global flood and not explainable otherwise. You have been asked to elaborate on that. By many people. If your answer is "God did it", then I can logically conclude that you don't have a scientific explanation for your claim.

Again, I don't question that you believe something. You just haven't provided any valid reason that others should believe it too.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I thought about the cooking issue and I am just going to declare that it is the process that fixed the tissue resulting in perfect preservation.

Huh?
Could you provide a more reasonable mechanism, how that heat would form? I mean, to debunk the claim that the Flood would not freeze organisms.

…placed in an envelope of suspended time and emerge from that envelope in exactly the age and condition they were in upon entering.

Sounds like a sci-fi movie.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Huh?
Could you provide a more reasonable mechanism, how that heat would form? I mean, to debunk the claim that the Flood would not freeze organisms.


Sounds like a sci-fi movie.

I know that it has been provided in flood threads that you and I both participated in. This is not new information.

Would 40 days and nights of rain release energy? Would catastrophic tectonics release energy?

When you release energy on your stovetop does the pot of water freeze?

You are aware that it is you that has to support your claim that a global flood would cause freezing. There isn't even any indication of such speculation arising from biblical accounts.

The waters were upon the earth for about a year. Nothing about freezing indicated. The waters receded. Couldn't do that if they were frozen. The Ice Age and the animals you claim as evidence indicate that they are much older than the purported dates for the biblical flood. You can claim flawed dating analysis to wave that away, but then you have to demonstrate that the dating is flawed and why. I haven't seen that either. Just a claim that C14 dating--not the only dating technique--would be off.

Then of course, the animals all wondered off the ark and from the ark location to populate the earth in their present ranges. That terrible cold snap that would freeze living things had to happen to the drowned mammals sometime. It didn't happen before, during or after based on the narrative or the evidence or the physics.

And why just mammals? Where are the dinosaurs carcasses? The snakes? The lizards? These would all be mixed up with pieces plants, trees, disorganized sediment from disparate sources. Where is all of that?

Presumably, you mean global freezing, but if not then why only in one place? Why not some indication of freezing elsewhere? Why would that disregard the conditions of Siberia that are ideal for freezing things? Maybe these carcasses are what you would expect to find in a place that has been cold for so long without any flood. I haven't seen you address that.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

What is your explanation of how these frozen animals ended up in the permafrost, given that instantaneous freezing due to global flood as described would not be a physical possibility of such an event?

Of course the Flood caused instantaneous freezing in the Northern and (to some lesser degree) Southern latitudes! What happens to water when the temperature drops below freezing?!

Didn’t I tell you that, prior to the Flood, the Earth enjoyed a warmer climate, a sort of greenhouse effect, due to the water / vapor canopy surrounding the Earth? Yes I know I did.
When that canopy broke, and the waters from it fell, and the water from the springs below, rose up….what effect would that have on the surface? Frozen ground!

If something different would happen— which you seem to state as fact — then present the evidence.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Of course the Flood caused instantaneous freezing in the Northern and (to some lesser degree) Southern latitudes! What happens to water when the temperature drops below freezing?!

What is your evidence that freezing occurred and it was due to the flood and no other explanation? You have not offered anything that doesn't omit important details, isn't a poor account of existing evidence or is simply a claim without support. None of which should convince a reasonable person to agree that a flood just like in Genesis happened.

Does acknowledging that I am aware of the freezing of water do anything as evidence to your claim that these animals exist only as evidence of a global flood?

Didn’t I tell you that, prior to the Flood, the Earth enjoyed a warmer climate, a sort of greenhouse effect, due to the water / vapor canopy surrounding the Earth? Yes I know I did.
When that canopy broke, and the waters from it fell, and the water from the springs below, rose up….what effect would that have on the surface? Frozen ground!

If something different would happen— which you seem to state as fact — then present the evidence.

We can have a more rounded discussion of the pressures and temperatures that would result from all that raining and a water canopy after you provide the evidence for your claims here if you like. But for now, I am waiting for your evidence that shows this freezing is what happened and that a flood is the only explanation for the Siberian mammal carcasses.

All this fencing is preventing you from providing that evidence and explanation.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Do you, or do you not claim that the sudden appearance and disappearance of these massive quantities of water was caused by god, using his supernatural pow

I never said the “waters disappeared”; they’re still here.

Oh dear. You posted 957 after my post, so how can it be a reply to that post?

Yes, after your post. I obviously couldn’t have answered your post, before your post!

Are you OK?

When you release energy on your stovetop does the pot of water freeze?

So now you’re likening the waters inundating the Earth, to a stovetop? Especially as they were spread out over 40 days? I see no correlation.
In the extreme latitudes, I envision them turning to ice.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

What is your evidence that freezing occurred and it was due to the flood and no other explanation? You have not offered anything that doesn't omit important details, isn't a poor account of existing evidence or is simply a claim without support. None of which should convince a reasonable person to agree that a flood just like in Genesis happened.

Does acknowledging that I am aware of the freezing of water do anything as evidence to your claim that these animals exist only as evidence of a global flood?
We can have a more rounded discussion of the pressures and temperatures that would result from all that raining and a water canopy after you provide the evidence for your claims here if you like. But for now, I am waiting for your evidence that shows this freezing is what happened and that a flood is the only explanation for the Siberian mammal carcasses.

All this fencing is preventing you from providing that evidence and explanation.

You need evidence that in colder latitudes, water turns to ice?
OK….

And colder water that falls, turns into… you guessed it… ice.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I never said the “waters disappeared”; they’re still here.


Yes, after your post. I obviously couldn’t have answered your post, before your post!

Are you OK?


So now you’re likening the waters inundating the Earth, to a stovetop? Especially as they were spread out over 40 days? I see no correlation.
In the extreme latitudes, I envision them turning to ice.

Good grief!

If you add energy (stovetop gas or electric) does it cause the water to freeze?

Is energy released by falling water in the form of rain? So 40 days and nights of continuous rain would release no energy? Really?

Still no explanation for why those carcasses are evidence only of a global flood and nothing else. The fencing continues.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You need evidence that in colder latitudes, water turns to ice?
OK….

And colder water that falls, turns into… you guessed it… ice.

By now I feel comfortable in acknowledging that you consider yourself an expert in global flood biology, chemistry and physics, so why do you divert from the discussion on these obviously blind tangents. Please give me the benefit of your expertise in supporting and explaining your claims.

Can you provide a demonstration that rain obviously above the freezing point of water would lose the energy it has keeping it from being ice pellets and suddenly freeze to ice?

The Bible specifically says rain. It does not say it rained here, but snowed or sleeted over there. It doesn't say it misted either.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You need evidence that in colder latitudes, water turns to ice?
OK….

And colder water that falls, turns into… you guessed it… ice.

Still no explanation why the carcasses in Siberia are evidence only of a global flood and not explained by any other reason. How long can you keep avoiding that?

 

[rational experiences]

Ask Mr I know everything human brother liar.

How much ice mass did earth own in instant life extinction?

I don't know.

Wasnt water the mass then not ice?

What about how much of it melted as iced mass first?

I don't know.

What about where water mass went?

I don't know.

How many new sink holes filled in with water? From the flood.

I don't know.

That type of advice.

If a ground is slushy it means flooded then snap frozen then thawed.

As animals I have horses who shy and tend to not to want to walk into mushy ground bodies.

Stone rock was sealed with water oxygen as natural mass. You claim living microbes grown in above water light had proved it.

How do you identify advice when Rock owns water too?

He can't.

As bible said we saw in nuclear fallout rock releasing its water body also. Out of its mass.

So Rock was chemically converting so it must be why it owns huge chemical coloured range on it.

So humans in iced countries like Russia as God earth copy then build Multi coloured buildings as mind brain causes...visionary.

Warnings actually as humans signs.

You can't discuss earth flooding unless you live to theory it seeing it.

Concept earth flooded originally isn't wrong. Saying wood garden was there first in origin earth mass cooling flood is wrong.

Humans caused the earth flood is correct human evidence. As humans changed earths natural stone law sealed.

They knew flooding had saved life as cooling. Yet ice involved in flooding was highest holiest position not a man.

Ownership status I claim baby man human lives by ice ownership was legal. A statement given as advised after the fact of all evidence.

Proven men made all statements as human men invented the thesis science. So it was legal to mans human sins as stated. As he knew he had caused new sink holes.

Just as modern heavens science experiments did.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Huh?
Could you provide a more reasonable mechanism, how that heat would form? I mean, to debunk the claim that the Flood would not freeze organisms.


Sounds like a sci-fi movie.

My post with the sci-fi content wasn't intended to be taken seriously. It was satire.

If a centimeter of rainfall releases approximately 320,000 kJ of energy per square kilometer, then that same rain over the entire 510 million square kilometer surface of the Earth would release 163,200,000,000,000 kJ of energy. And that is just a single centimeter of rain. Is your answer that this energy does nothing? Keeping in mind that even with the fountains of the deep (whatever those are) it isn't likely that 40 days and nights of rain would be a single centimeter of rain, that is a lot of energy being released. How do you explain how that much energy leads to freezing of the Siberian mammals. Again, how did the flood sort them out so that only animals from that region would be right where you would expect to find their remains? How come there are no kangaroos in that mess? No armadillos, tapirs, whitetail deer, etc.?

What is the mechanism that would cause freezing of those animals that is so obvious, it should be easy to see, understand and explain while clearly it is none of those things?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Good grief!

If you add energy (stovetop gas or electric) does it cause the water to freeze?

Is energy released by falling water in the form of rain? So 40 days and nights of continuous rain would release no energy? Really?

Still no explanation for why those carcasses are evidence only of a global flood and nothing else. The fencing continues.

I am always curious about the "water canopy" and what it was. Is it part of the atmosphere? That raises and incredibly number of problems. First off there would be the pressure from those thousands of feet of water. I have feeling that land animals could not survive under the immensely huge pressures that would create. Second if it is in vapor form Condensing from a gas would release a huge amount of energy. The same amount of energy that it would take to boil it off. Then as it fell the potential energy would be changed into kinetic energy and then heat upon impact with the Earth. If it was in liquid form we would still have the problems of kinetic energy and then no light would get through to the surface of the Earth. We are talking a cloud cover orders of magnitude higher than the darkest day on Earth. With all of these problems clearly not in the atmosphere.

So let's put it into space in a low Earth orbit. But this makes the kinetic energy problem orders of magnitude worse. Here is a quick way to realize this. A rocket with a one ton pay load explodes. That explosion is roughly the energy it takes to get that one ton into space. It is also the energy released when that one ton comes back to Earth. One ton of water is a cube one meter on a side. . Do you see where this is going?

And the "waters of the deeps" are not much better. To get that much water one needs to go into the mantle and it is just a touch warmer than the surface.

No matter where the water comes from Noah and company are steamed. With live steam which chars more than it scalds. And that is just one of the many many problems with this myth.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

But for now, I am waiting for your evidence that shows this freezing is what happened….

Uh…The Permafrost, ie. frozen land, is already there. So it happened.

So propose an alternate & feasible process that put it there. It had to be some cataclysmic event! I mean, you must have one, since you said all of it had been “refuted”…right?

 

[KWED]

I never said the “waters disappeared”; they’re still here.

Where?

 

[KWED]

Of course the Flood caused instantaneous freezing in the Northern and (to some lesser degree) Southern latitudes! What happens to water when the temperature drops below freezing?!

Why would all that geological upheaval and release of energy lead to the temperature suddenly dropping below freezing? The opposite would happen.

Didn’t I tell you that, prior to the Flood, the Earth enjoyed a warmer climate, a sort of greenhouse effect, due to the water / vapor canopy surrounding the Earth? Yes I know I did.
When that canopy broke, and the waters from it fell, and the water from the springs below, rose up….what effect would that have on the surface? Frozen ground!

Scientific illiteracy is not a good starting point for making pseudo-scientific claims.

 

[KWED]

You need evidence that in colder latitudes, water turns to ice?
OK….

And colder water that falls, turns into… you guessed it… ice.

You claimed that the water caused the temperature to fall below freezing. In your example the temperature is already below freezing.
How does massive rainfall plus geological upheaval cause the temperature to drop hugely.

 

[KWED]

Uh…The Permafrost, ie. frozen land, is already there.

You jut claimed that the water canopy meant the earth was much warmer than today - so how was there any permafrost.
Also, if the permafrost was "already there", anything frozen in the permafrost was there before the flood.

 

[Jose Fly]

Is this not described as an event caused by God?

If so, then ‘God did do it’.

That's fine as a religious belief, but removes it from the realm of science. So preach away that the flood happened, just don't try and argue that it's scientifically supported. Can't have it both ways.

Tell me please, where did all that fresh water locked in the Permafrost come from, stretching throughout the Northern Hemisphere?
And, how did those estimated millions of megafauna get stuck, and many preserved, within it?

All we have, is evidence after the fact.

Um.....you're the one arguing that these "perfectly preserved specimens" were the result of the flood, so let's hear your explanation for how that is so.

 

[Jose Fly]

@Dan From Smithville , yes please, both you and Jose explain this supposed “heat” to me, how does water falling from above and water rising from below, cause heat? When did it ever?

It depends on the amount of rain over what period of time. Got any estimates?