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Flood Evidences — revised

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Funny! That the Flood occurred, even Jesus disclosed, at Matthew 24:37-39. He wasn’t a liar.

The Jesus in the gospels is just a character in some stories - whether the historical person (assuming there was one) was a liar, or if he said anything like this at all, is unknown.

There is solid evidence that there was no global flood and you quote a character from a storybook as refutation - now that really is funny.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Funny! That the Flood occurred, even Jesus disclosed, at Matthew 24:37-39. He wasn’t a liar.

All you and others present are suppositions. 2 Corinthians 4:4 reveals that many are blinded, by an Entity that you don’t even exists! Revelation 12:9 has more relevance now than at any other time in history.
No, Jesus used all sorts of literary tools. He merely have been saying the equivalent of "she is as old as the hills". The example I gave only means that the lady is very old. What Jesus could have been referring to was another early time for the Hebrews.

And you actually shoot yourself in the foot with that argument. You are claiming that Jesus was just a man.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Of course evidence is there! I don’t ignore it or say it’s unexplained, like others do.
Sorry, you do not even know what is and what is not evidence. Please read the following quote. Tell me if you have any problem with it:

"Scientific evidence is evidence which serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical evidence and interpretation in accordance with scientific method. Standards for scientific evidence vary according to the field of inquiry, but the strength of scientific evidence is generally based on the results of statistical analysis and the strength of scientific controls."
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
Global Flood evidence:

***1.Vast herds of grazing animals, perhaps millions of them, discovered within the permafrost (called muck fields by some, due to the mud mixed in from previous melting), in the Alaskan and Yukon regions. In the Siberian permafrost, a few have been discovered upright, with food (some which only grows in temperate climates) discovered still unchewed in their mouths, like the Berezovka Mammoth. (They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)

http://www.amendez.com/Noahs Ark Articles/NAS Worldwide Mammal Massacre.pdf

The question is raised — and properly so: “How could a Global Flood cause such freezing temperatures?” Keep in mind, some of the water (not most...most were from the “vast springs” underneath the ground) came from above, from the atmosphere....the troposphere?...the mesosphere?...the stratosphere? The Bible doesn’t say, it is silent. (Maybe from all five.) But the waters existing above the Earth prior to the Flood, resulted in mild temperatures, and pleasantly warm.... similar to a greenhouse effect, worldwide. (That’s why Adam & Eve could go naked, and be very comfortable.) Yes, the Bible indicates there were seasons, but apparently mild ones.

All of that drastically changed, with the break in this vapor(?) / ice (?) canopy! Temperatures would drop suddenly!

***2.This project, completed by physics students of the University of Leicester, provides an interesting conclusion:
‘Noah’s Ark would have floated’.

And this one:
Could Noah’s Ark Float? In Theory, Yes | Science | Smithsonian

Further information:
Noah’s Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research center KRISO, based in Daejeon, South Korea. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.
The research team found that the proportions of Noah’s Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability (resistance to capsizing), comfort (“seakeeping”), and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.


The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m). Dr. Hong is now director general of the facility and claims “life came from the sea,” obviously not the words of a creationist on a mission to promote the worldwide Flood. Endorsing the seaworthiness of Noah’s Ark obviously did not damage Dr. Hong’s credibility.

Dr. Seon Won Hong was principal research scientist when he headed up the Noah’s Ark investigation. In May 2005 Dr. Hong was appointed director general of MOERI (formerly KRISO). Dr. Hong earned a B.S. degree in naval architecture from Seoul National University and a Ph.D. degree in applied mechanics from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

***3.Coupled with that, the dimensions of the Ark, a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability! Only in the last 2 centuries have ship builders recognized that these proportions are perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?

***4.The numerous Flood legends (exceeding 250, one anthropologist says near 1,000), that share many similarities, some strikingly so, that indicates a common source.



***5.Furthermore, the Bible indicates, in Psalms 104, that the Flood was the cause of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (With the underground waters spewing upward, the land would, by necessity, settle downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, did not exist before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. Some were even underwater prior to the Flood — see #6. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)

***6.[related to #5]The marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating (again) that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) All remain exposed....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones died at the Flood!!

***7.Where did all the water go? Apparently, it’s still here, at the Earth. If we again take into account what Psalms 104 reveals — that it was the Flood that caused our current topography, the very high mountains and low valleys, then the Earth’s terrain was somewhat smoother than now. (And Genesis tells us, the highest mountain was covered by around 22 ft. of the water.) It’s been determined that if the Earth was smoothed out like a billiard ball, the present water in all the ocean and lake basins would cover the planet to a depth of 2.5 miles! More than enough.....yet, scientists have discovered even more water in the Earth’s mantle, estimated to be almost 10 times as much as exists on our surface! So, that presents no obstacle!

***8.The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8”. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!

Are you of the mindset that, when reading about God causing a global Flood, you don’t think He’d use His power throughout other aspects of the event? Or afterwards? Let’s see what the Genesis account reveals: He brought the waters above and below to Earth’s surface....He gave Noah instructions on building the Ark, providing those ideal proportions....He brought the animals to Noah (No, Noah didn’t have to go get them, as some dishonestly purport.)....and He closed the door. Only those w/ closed minds would assume (want to, maybe?) that God’s power stopped there. Is He somehow incapable of protecting the occupants in the Ark, or the plant life underneath the waters? Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain every aspect involved? If He brought the animal to Noah, is it too much of a stretch to believe that Jehovah redistributed them to their former locations after the Flood?

Jehovah God is not required to explain anything more to us....what we do know, the evidence, is enough to build faith in the account.

Another indirect line of evidence, as to why God would cause such a catastrophe, are the Greek, Roman, Hindu, Norse, etc., myths describing “gods” interacting w/ humans, having relations w/ women, and producing offspring. (Since most all myths have some kernel of truth, this common narrative between them, of gods having sex w/ human females & bearing children, must be it.) It parallels Genesis 6:1-4, and explains to some extent why Jehovah had to step in, to thwart the eventual subjugation of the human race into sex slavery. But these “myths” created after the event, have kept it living in the collective mind of the human race.


Google Image Result for https://previews.123rf.com/images/yayayoy/yayayoy1107/yayayoy110700027/10089284-laughing-and-pointing-emoticon.jpg
 

sooda

Veteran Member
“Solid evidence”, lol.

Well, do it!
I just presented 8 lines of evidence — no, actually 9 — that there was.

There isn't a geologist in the world that agrees with the claim there was a global flood. I hope you aren't teaching your children that myth is history.
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
Global Flood evidence:

***1.Vast herds of grazing animals, perhaps millions of them, discovered within the permafrost (called muck fields by some, due to the mud mixed in from previous melting), in the Alaskan and Yukon regions. In the Siberian permafrost, a few have been discovered upright, with food (some which only grows in temperate climates) discovered still unchewed in their mouths, like the Berezovka Mammoth. (They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)

http://www.amendez.com/Noahs Ark Articles/NAS Worldwide Mammal Massacre.pdf

The question is raised — and properly so: “How could a Global Flood cause such freezing temperatures?” Keep in mind, some of the water (not most...most were from the “vast springs” underneath the ground) came from above, from the atmosphere....the troposphere?...the mesosphere?...the stratosphere? The Bible doesn’t say, it is silent. (Maybe from all five.) But the waters existing above the Earth prior to the Flood, resulted in mild temperatures, and pleasantly warm.... similar to a greenhouse effect, worldwide. (That’s why Adam & Eve could go naked, and be very comfortable.) Yes, the Bible indicates there were seasons, but apparently mild ones.

All of that drastically changed, with the break in this vapor(?) / ice (?) canopy! Temperatures would drop suddenly!

***2.This project, completed by physics students of the University of Leicester, provides an interesting conclusion:
‘Noah’s Ark would have floated’.

And this one:
Could Noah’s Ark Float? In Theory, Yes | Science | Smithsonian

Further information:
Noah’s Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research center KRISO, based in Daejeon, South Korea. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.
The research team found that the proportions of Noah’s Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability (resistance to capsizing), comfort (“seakeeping”), and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.


The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m). Dr. Hong is now director general of the facility and claims “life came from the sea,” obviously not the words of a creationist on a mission to promote the worldwide Flood. Endorsing the seaworthiness of Noah’s Ark obviously did not damage Dr. Hong’s credibility.

Dr. Seon Won Hong was principal research scientist when he headed up the Noah’s Ark investigation. In May 2005 Dr. Hong was appointed director general of MOERI (formerly KRISO). Dr. Hong earned a B.S. degree in naval architecture from Seoul National University and a Ph.D. degree in applied mechanics from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

***3.Coupled with that, the dimensions of the Ark, a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability! Only in the last 2 centuries have ship builders recognized that these proportions are perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?

***4.The numerous Flood legends (exceeding 250, one anthropologist says near 1,000), that share many similarities, some strikingly so, that indicates a common source.



***5.Furthermore, the Bible indicates, in Psalms 104, that the Flood was the cause of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (With the underground waters spewing upward, the land would, by necessity, settle downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, did not exist before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. Some were even underwater prior to the Flood — see #6. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)

***6.[related to #5]The marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating (again) that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) All remain exposed....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones died at the Flood!!

***7.Where did all the water go? Apparently, it’s still here, at the Earth. If we again take into account what Psalms 104 reveals — that it was the Flood that caused our current topography, the very high mountains and low valleys, then the Earth’s terrain was somewhat smoother than now. (And Genesis tells us, the highest mountain was covered by around 22 ft. of the water.) It’s been determined that if the Earth was smoothed out like a billiard ball, the present water in all the ocean and lake basins would cover the planet to a depth of 2.5 miles! More than enough.....yet, scientists have discovered even more water in the Earth’s mantle, estimated to be almost 10 times as much as exists on our surface! So, that presents no obstacle!

***8.The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8”. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!

Are you of the mindset that, when reading about God causing a global Flood, you don’t think He’d use His power throughout other aspects of the event? Or afterwards? Let’s see what the Genesis account reveals: He brought the waters above and below to Earth’s surface....He gave Noah instructions on building the Ark, providing those ideal proportions....He brought the animals to Noah (No, Noah didn’t have to go get them, as some dishonestly purport.)....and He closed the door. Only those w/ closed minds would assume (want to, maybe?) that God’s power stopped there. Is He somehow incapable of protecting the occupants in the Ark, or the plant life underneath the waters? Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain every aspect involved? If He brought the animal to Noah, is it too much of a stretch to believe that Jehovah redistributed them to their former locations after the Flood?

Jehovah God is not required to explain anything more to us....what we do know, the evidence, is enough to build faith in the account.

Another indirect line of evidence, as to why God would cause such a catastrophe, are the Greek, Roman, Hindu, Norse, etc., myths describing “gods” interacting w/ humans, having relations w/ women, and producing offspring. (Since most all myths have some kernel of truth, this common narrative between them, of gods having sex w/ human females & bearing children, must be it.) It parallels Genesis 6:1-4, and explains to some extent why Jehovah had to step in, to thwart the eventual subjugation of the human race into sex slavery. But these “myths” created after the event, have kept it living in the collective mind of the human race.


Global Flood evidence:

***1.Vast herds of grazing animals, perhaps millions of them, discovered within the permafrost (called muck fields by some, due to the mud mixed in from previous melting), in the Alaskan and Yukon regions. In the Siberian permafrost, a few have been discovered upright, with food (some which only grows in temperate climates) discovered still unchewed in their mouths, like the Berezovka Mammoth. (They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)

http://www.amendez.com/Noahs Ark Articles/NAS Worldwide Mammal Massacre.pdf


The flood took place in Mesopotamia sense that's where the story originated not Alaska ! The old testament was not written about America.
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
“Solid evidence”, lol.

Well, do it!
I just presented 8 lines of evidence — no, actually 9 — that there was.

The fact that there is solid scientific evidence that the story originated from Mesopotamia instead of the Jews, and when the Jews were captured and taken to work in that area they copied it and it came out way before the biblical version which has been proven by science; It puts your whole story in question!
 

sooda

Veteran Member
The fact that there is solid scientific evidence that the story originated from Mesopotamia instead of the Jews, and when the Jews were captured and taken to work in that area they copied it and it came out way before the biblical version which has been proven by science; It puts your whole story in question!

The Jews had no myths or history until after the Babylonian exile.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Then why do you think the world's geologists, many of whom are Christian, have consistently reached the opposite conclusion for well over a century?
They have to, to be accepted by mainstream! They need to keep their jobs. Real easy to figure out.

No metaphysical explanations are ever allowed.

Sad...although it explains much.

Like Lincoln's ghost - Wikipedia , et.al.

(Explain how mentally sound people, well-known for their rationality, have experienced these things.)

Incidents like this happen all over the world!

You have no idea how much you and others are “misled” and deceived! Revelation 12:9

Even myself, but at least I’m aware of it & understand why; I’m not oblivious to the forces behind it!
— 1 John 5:19
 
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sooda

Veteran Member
Right heres an excerpt from Wiki, they stole it from BAbylonia:
Though the account of Noah in the Hebrew Bible has long been the most studied flood story by scholars, in the 19th century AssyriologistGeorge Smith translated the first Babylonian account of a great flood.[2]

Once they were exposed to Babylonian mythology and foundation myths they wanted the same for themselves. Genesis and Exodus were written AFTER the first and second law.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
They have to, to be accepted by mainstream! They need to keep their jobs. Real easy to figure out.

No metaphysical explanations are ever allowed.

Sad...although it explains much.

Like Lincoln's ghost - Wikipedia , et.al.

(Explain how mentally sound people, well-known for their rationality, have experienced these things.)

Incidents like this happen all over the world!

You have no idea how much you and others are “misled” and deceived! Revelation 12:9

Even myself, but at least I understand why; I’m not oblivious to the forces behind it!
— 1 John 5:19

Your problem is your education.
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
Nothing is revised. These are the same sad arguments you have made before. All of it was explained to you.

Your buttercup mammoth is a BS story.

Thank you for this lovely example of denialism.

And it lived in ALaska! when did Native AMericans write down Noahs flood story?
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
Yes, somewhat revised. You won't find buttercups mentioned (although if I remember correctly, that was one of several species discovered in the Berezhovka Mammoth's stomach.)

I'm in denial. That's funny.
Tell me... If you believe that the miracles in the Bible really didn't happen -- 'teaching aids', as you suggested -- why would Jesus accuse those skeptical Sadducees, 'You don't know the power of God'?

Do you have proof Jesus existed?
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Do you have proof Jesus existed?

Publius Cornelius Tacitus.


Do you think he didn’t? Do you think a man whose history we only have 3 1/2 years, could affect billions of people, and yet be fictitious? That’s not reasonable.

Luke 4 reveals he had an enemy...vs.6 informs us how much control that enemy has (Jesus didn’t pispute it.)

This is one reason I accept the Scriptures.....I see confusion and people groping for truth, everywhere I look. Just as the Bible foretold! Revelation 12:9; Revelation 12:12.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
The fact that there is solid scientific evidence that the story originated from Mesopotamia instead of the Jews, and when the Jews were captured and taken to work in that area they copied it and it came out way before the biblical version which has been proven by science; It puts your whole story in question!
Oh my goodness! Both are describing the same event!

But the Genesis account reveals a boat that would be seaworthy! The Epic of Gilgamesh, doesn’t!
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Publius Cornelius Tacitus.


Do you think he didn’t? Do you think a man whose history we only have 3 1/2 years, could affect billions of people, and yet be fictitious? That’s not reasonable.

Luke 4 reveals he had an enemy...vs.6 informs us how much control that enemy has (Jesus didn’t pispute it.)

This is one reason I accept the Scriptures.....I see confusion and people groping for truth, everywhere I look. Just as the Bible foretold! Revelation 12:9; Revelation 12:12.

Tacitus is rather poor evidence for Jesus. His writings were about ninety years after his death. He may have been merely repeating the beliefs of early Christians.

Don't you find it a bit odd that there are no contemporary records of him?
 
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