Nivek001 said:
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Just because you you never heard of the point that the angels God condemned never were given the opprotunity to be born begin with does not mean that didn’t happen.
nPeace said
“Not scriptural.”
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.
28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.
Pearl of Great Price, Book of Abraham 3:22-28 (An additional volume of scripture believed by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in tandem with the Bible)
There it shows we all existed as spirits before we were born, That God The Father asked for who shall he send to fulfill his plan which involves us coming to Earth (that involves gaining a mortal physical body or to be born). Two volunteer and he chooses the first (fulfilled in John 3:16)
The second is angered and rebels (Isaiah 14:12-15), (Revelation 12:3-9). Satan and his followers or angels were not given physical bodies but were cast out. They existed as spirts but were not given physical bodies since they refused to follow God The Father’s plan that involves us obtaining mortal physical bodies.
Where do you that there are no angels who need to be reborn? (John 3:5)
I believe angel who have or will come to Earth to live in mortality will need to be reborn as described in John 3:5
I wasn’t comparing those angels to 1Peter 3:18-20. I was comparing them to what you posted from 2Peter and Genesis 6, that they too were not proven to be connected to the spirits described in 1Peter 3:18-20 concerning who the spirits were that Christ preached to between his death and resurrection, which BTW goes contrary to your point because Jesus did things as a spirit prior to being resurrected on the third day.
nPeace said:
“Ah. I see. You believe these things... Not scriptural.”
And your proof that the sources I cited from both the Bible and The Pearl of Great Price are not scriptural is what?
nPeace said:
“The thing about believing things, and using the Bible, is that if those things are not scripturally true, they don't benefit the believer.”
That I agree and since you haven’t shown that what you posted is proven to be scripturally true it should give you reason ask yourself if what I have been posting about is true.
I believe it was Satan to tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden and he was described in the symbolism of being a serpent.
I believe the sons of God consist of all males. That includes not just angels and certainly not just angels God has punished. Which BTW doesn’t really show that certain sons of God were even specifically punished by God when certain they married the daughters of men in Genesis 6.
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
It only says that the Lord’s spirit shall not always strive with man, which could mean all of humanity at that time. It’s not referencing specifically those sons of God who married the daughters of men. The key words there are “...took them wives...” not anything as other than wives.
I said:
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4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Jeremiah 1:4-5 KJV
I pointed out that as a scripture showing an example of a spirit existing and interacting with God prior to birth.
nPeace responded with:
“No it doesn't. You believe these things, remember.
What you believe about the scripture we looked at earlier does not make sense, remember?”
HOW is a listed scripture not a listed scripture just be because you don’t understand it? How is that even logical? And you are saying that I don’t make any sense?
Where is it decreed that a scripture is not a scripture unless nPeace says it’s understandable? You haven’t even proven that you even tried to understand that scripture.
I believe that God knew us before we were born not only in the womb but before since there was no pre-born time limit in Jeremiah 1 in The Old Testament or in Abraham 3 in The Pearl of Great Price.
nPeace posted:
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Genesis 25:21-23) 21. . .Jehovah responded to his plea, and his wife Rebekah became pregnant. 22 And the sons within her began to struggle with each other, so that she said: “If this is the way it is, why should I go on living?” So she inquired of Jehovah. 23 And Jehovah said to her: “Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples will be separated from within you; and the one nation will be stronger than the other nation, and the older will serve the younger.”
Yeah good point. Perhaps knowing all of that came by knowing personally those who would be born to those two peoples and how they were like as spirits. Certainly not like those who didn’t keep their first estate like in Abraham 3
nPeace said:
So because God can see more than we can, does that not humble us, and should we then not stop using our ideas to try to fit into the Bible?
It does like the idea that there is no physical resurrection even when Jesus appeared to his apostles in a resurrected physical body (Luke 24). One should stop trying to fit that in.
So, where do you get that I believe we are not born from the lineage of Adam?
nPeace said:
“This idea that we are spirit walking around with a body, and shedding that body to move on to another life... do you know where it came from?”
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luke 23:43 KJV.
How do you think Jesus and the thief would meet together in Paradise if there was no spirit remaining that day when they died?
Also:
42 Now, there is a death which is called a temporal death; and the death of Christ shall loose the bands of this temporal death, that all shall be raised from this temporal death.
43 The spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we now are at this time; and we shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know now, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt.
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
(Book of Mormon; Alma 11:42-45)
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Matthew 4:11) . . .Then the Devil left him, and look! angels came and began to minister to him.
It’s a good thing then after Devil left him that his own spirit dwelling in his body would be at peace.
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Mark 1:13) . . .So he continued in the wilderness for 40 days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild beasts, but the angels were ministering to him.
It was a good thing that it was God’s own angles that help out. Of course I don’t think Jesus would have trusted any offers of help if they came from any of Satan’s angels. (The third who kept not their first estate in Abraham 3 in The Pearl of Great Price)
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Luke 22:43) . . .Then an angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him.
Again, good thing it was an angel from heaven and not Satan.
Nivek001 said:
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nPeace replied:
Of course the realms above was with his father in heaven, as a mighty spirit creature.
Again, what is your point? How does that have anything to do with Jesus preaching to those spirits in prison?
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
John 20:17 KJV
Which Jesus would later appear to them that evening in both spirit and in body. A body which the brethren would be able to handle.
(Hebrews 9:11 KJV goes over
A tabernacle not made of hands made perfect by God . That would be a made perfect physical body for Christ to inhabit.
nPeace said:
“What that shows is that Jesus was in heaven with his father, before coming to Earth”
And apparently he wasn’t the only one the Father knew since he knew us as spirits as well.
My question to you was, what is Satan, and where was Satan from?
Satan was a spiritual child of God just like we all are and who was a son of the morning. He rebelled against the Father’s plan and drew in 1/3 of the other spirts to follow him. We were not among those 1/3 because we came to be born into mortality according to go according to his plan.
That plan also had to involve sacrificing his only begotten son. Begotten being not only in spirit but i the flesh as well. That son being Jesus Christ.
Jesus was both divine and mortal because he had a mortal mother. God the Father could not overcome death and sin for our sakes because the Father could not die and thus overcome death, but Jesus being mortal could die and Jesus being divine could then overcome death.
Jesus being pure hearted being who was also divine and mortal was also the only one who could actually suffer for our sins so that instead of us all failing eternal happiness because we have sinned can still have a shot at it anyway be because Christ paid the price for our sins. We just have to follow his terms, which are more lenient than if we were left to our own devices.
