For Christians ... a question I've had for a long time

[URAVIP2ME]

The question is - will it be physical? Will it have weight and mass? Will it obey Newton's laws of motion?

ALL the resurrections Jesus performed were physical resurrections.
No one before Jesus was promised heaven - John 3:13
So, the only hope for them would be a physical resurrection including the people of Hebrews chapter 11 (Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39)
Then, after they are resurrected is when they will have the opportunity to put faith in Jesus.
Their resurrection is future. That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the 'future tense' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That is another good question. Scripturally no way to know. Guessing... it can be physical and have weight and mass and can work within Newton's laws of motion. Are the higher spiritual laws that can override Newton laws of motion? Like the law of lift that overrides the law of gravity? Maybe.

Adam and Eve were physical, and only offered physical life. Physical life on Earth forever.
They could remain on Earth as physical persons as that is God's purpose for humans.
Their descendants (us) would also be offered everlasting life on Earth as long as they did Not break God's Law.
Heaven was never promised to anyone who lived before Jesus - John 3:13
Even the faithful people named in Hebrews chapter 11 are Not yet resurrected - Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39.
God's purpose for Earth is that Earth be inhabited (Heaven was already inhabited) - Isaiah 45:18; Ecclesiastes 1:4 B

 

[Kenny]

Adam and Eve were physical, and only offered physical life. Physical life on Earth forever.
They could remain on Earth as physical persons as that is God's purpose for humans.
Their descendants (us) would also be offered everlasting life on Earth as long as they did Not break God's Law.
Heaven was never promised to anyone who lived before Jesus - John 3:13
Even the faithful people named in Hebrews chapter 11 are Not yet resurrected - Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39.
God's purpose for Earth is that Earth be inhabited (Heaven was already inhabited) - Isaiah 45:18; Ecclesiastes 1:4 B

Heaven was never was and never is the final place for people. (Those gone will come back again to earth)

I don't see where Adam and Eve were only offered physical life since the communed with God - Spirit to spirit on a continual basis.

The Law, in Christian viewpoints, was not offering everlasting life on earth as long as they did not break God's Law. John 3:13 was the "after" effects of the risen Christ. They were held captive with the promise of redemption in a place called Paradise or Abraham's bosom.

So I don't agree with your position

 

[37818]

The thousand years has nothing to do with Jesus.

Revelation 20:4-5, ". . . they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

 

[37818]

Except for Christ, ALL the resurrections were: physical ones.

Luke 24:39, ". . . Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. . . ."

 

[Trailblazer]

We believe what is the truth from our scripture. You can believe whatever you wish

That does not work for people who are logical. Christians say they believe what is the truth from scripture, but they do not agree upon what is in the scripture because they all interpret it differently! Of course what that means to any logical person is that the SAME verses in scripture can have many different meanings. Some of those meanings might be what the authors originally intended for them to mean and some are not, so how does any Christian know that the meanings they have ascribed are the accurate meanings? Not one Christian has ever been able to answer me when I ask this question, they just ignore me and sidestep this issue. Meanwhile, atheists can understand what I am talking about because they are logical and they have no confirmation bias.

You said it .....Christ was raised as a spirit, not a human. He “appeared” to his apostles as a human because he materialised human for as other spirit beings had done before him. You think the angels that visited Abraham, Daniel and Mary were humans?

I agree that if Jesus was raised and He appeared to the disciples and other people, he was raised as a spirit, not as a physical body. This is where the JWs got it right, this and realizing that Jesus was not God incarnate and the Trinity is not a true doctrine based upon the scriptures.

I cannot for the life of me understand how Baha’i’s can pretend to accept Jesus, but deny what is written about him in our scripture.

Do you really think that everything (or even most things) that are written about Jesus in scripture is accurate rendition of what Jesus said and did? That is logically impossible, given it was written my men who did not even know Jesus, written from stories that had been passed down generations earlier that changed as they were passed along from person to person. Not even Christians who attended years of seminary school and have advances theological degrees will dispute this in debates with nonbelievers because they know they could never win. We know for a fact that the gospels were not written by the disciples or by Jesus, they are only "alleged" sayings of Jesus. Paul no doubt knew more about Jesus since he claimed to have had a vision of Him and talked to Him. It was decades after that that the gospels were written and they raised Jesus from the dead, lol, only in the stories. And people are so gullible and brainwashed by the Church that they believe these stories just because they are "in the Bible."

Baha'is have a better picture of what Jesus did than Christians because we have the Writings of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha. We know the most important things that Jesus did, the things that really MATTER. The rest of what it says Jesus did in the New Testament, like being raised from the dead and raising people from the dead is superfluous, and it is just stories men told, not reality. What really matters that is contained in the New Testament are the moral and spiritual teachings of Jesus, not the alleged miracles.

Baha'is do not deny anything that is written in scripture but we realize that it is not the authentic sayings of Jesus because that is logically impossible. However, what is most important came through, and one can find it if they can wade through all the other muck and made up stories. Some authoritative statements regarding the Baha'i position on the Bible are summarized as follows:

In studying the Bible Bahá'ís must bear two principles in mind. The first is that many passages in Sacred Scriptures are intended to be taken metaphorically, not literally, and some of the paradoxes and apparent contradictions which appear are intended to indicate this. The second is the fact that the text of the early Scriptures, such as the Bible, is not wholly authentic.
(28 May 1984 to an individual believer)​

The Bahá'ís believe what is in the Bible to be true in substance. This does not mean that every word recorded in that Book is to be taken literally and treated as the authentic saying of a Prophet....

The Bahá'ís believe that God's Revelation is under His care and protection and that the essence, or essential elements, of what His Manifestations intended to convey has been recorded and preserved in Their Holy Books. However, as the sayings of the ancient Prophets were written down some time later, we cannot categorically state, as we do in the case of the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, that the words and phrases attributed to Them are Their exact words.
(9 August 1984 to an individual believer)

The Bible: Extracts on the Old and New Testaments
(From letters written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice)​

 

[Tiberius]

Yes, I can see why you say the skies....
....But the literal heavens of OLD (Noah's day) did 'Not perish' - 2 Peter 3:5-6
The literal heavens of NOW (verse 7) reserved for fire is Not a literal fire, but as fire can purify some things.
Not the literal skies passing away (verse 10) but corrupted 'works' burnt up, so to speak, as fire can also destroy.
So, it is symbolic of corrupted governmental rule or the 'works' of ungodly society. - Isaiah 26:21
Please notice who is removed or taken out as per Isaiah 13:9.
So, the NEW heavens and earth (2 Peter 3:13) is purified in that only righteousness will dwell.

That the trouble when you try to read literal meaning into metaphor, isn't it? Lots of different people get lots of different conclusions about what it means, and when the original author is dead, you've got no one to ask who got it right.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Heaven was never was and never is the final place for people. (Those gone will come back again to earth)
I don't see where Adam and Eve were only offered physical life since the communed with God - Spirit to spirit on a continual basis.
The Law, in Christian viewpoints, was not offering everlasting life on earth as long as they did not break God's Law. John 3:13 was the "after" effects of the risen Christ. They were held captive with the promise of redemption in a place called Paradise or Abraham's bosom.

Thank you for your reply.
Originally Earth was mankind's everlasting home, the paradisical Garden of Eden was a sample.
As long as Adam did Not eat the forbidden fruit he would be on Earth forever.
Spirit persons are like angels. They were created before physical creation.
Man's spirit is a neuter "it" thus Not a person according to Ecclesiastes 12:7.

Where we will find Abraham (Abraham's bosom) is when he will be physically resurrected as per Hebrews chapter 11.
So, Abraham will be resurrected on a beautiful paradisical Earth as Eden was a sample.
Abraham will Not be part of the earlier or 'first resurrection' as mentioned at Revelation 20:6.
Abraham will Not govern with Christ during Christ's thousand-year reign over Earth.
The ' first' resurrection is only for those called to heavenly life like the people of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18.
They are the only ones who will have a resurrection in a spirit body- 1st Corinthians chapter 15.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That the trouble when you try to read literal meaning into metaphor, isn't it? Lots of different people get lots of different conclusions about what it means, and when the original author is dead, you've got no one to ask who got it right.

Well, Jesus did use metaphors, but the Bible is Not only metaphors - such as Matthew 5:29-30.
The Bible is Not dead. No enemies over the many centuries have been able to get rid of the Bible or Bible people.
Since the Bible is Not dead, we can 'ask' (research) the Bible to see who got it right - Acts of the apostles 17:11.
Yes, lots of different conclusions: just as Jesus said that MANY would come in his name but prove false - Matthew 7:21-23
After the first century ended, both the genuine 'wheat' Christians and the fake 'weed/tares' Christians grew together.
This continues until the soon coming 'time of separation' on Earth at the time of Jesus' glory - Matthew 25:31-33,37.

One way to ' get it right ' is because of the Bible's corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages.
This shows the internal harmony among the many Bible writers.
A comprehensive concordance puts the Bible's subjects or topics in alphabetical order to help us do research.

1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 is Not dead, but a 'living prophecy' that when the powers that be are saying, " Peace and Security..."
that is the 'final signal', so to speak, which is the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Rev. 7:14,9.
Because we are at the ' final phase ' about internationally declaring about God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) as Jesus said to do -
Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 - then we also know 1st Thess. 5 is also at hand.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Luke 24:39, ". . . Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. . . ."

Right, except for God resurrecting Jesus back to his pre-human spirit body. No other person was first from the dead - Colossians 1:15
This is why Jesus is ' first ' one - 1 Corinthians 15:20; 1 Corinthians 15:23.

So, yes a spirit does Not have flesh and bones, so spirit-resurrected Jesus would have to use a materialized body to be seen, be visible.
A physical body can't just 'appear' as Jesus did in his several post-resurrection appearances - Luke 24:13-43.
Before Jesus ascended to his Father - John 20:17 - that same evening Jesus appeared in a shut room - John 20:19.
Eight (8) days later again indoors Jesus appears in a shut room - John 20:26 - a physical body can't do that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Revelation 20:4-5, ". . . they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

The rest of dead ( those resurrected on Earth ) lived not again ( meaning one could still fall away at that millennial time frame )
So, they did Not yet gain ' everlasting life ' on Earth. They did Not come to eternal life until the end of the thousand years.
That is when 1 Corinthians 15:24-26 will see its final fulfillment because ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth.- Isaiah 25:8

 

[Trailblazer]

You do not understand the burden of proof, do you?

I do understand the burden of proof but I am not the one who bears the burden since I am not the one making the claims, I just have beliefs about the claims of others.

If Adam and Eve is just a story, then Jesus's sacrifice is nothing more than God sending himself to be sacrificed to himself to convince himself to forgive Humanity for the crimes of two people who never even existed.

No, If Adam and Eve is just a story, it has a spiritual meaning that was conveyed by means of allegories. It has nothing to do with Jesus’ sacrifice because that sacrifice was never even necessary if there was no original sin committed by Adam and Eve. I believe tying original sin to the cross sacrifice was all a sham that Christianity used to get people to believe in Jesus so they would be saved from a sin that never even existed so they would not go to hell.

Let’s start over.

Every human born is subject to death and has been long before Adam and Eve, since some form of humans have existed on earth for 200,000 years. People are born and then they die, because God made our bodies that way, as mortal.

I do not believe in Adam and Eve is a true story, I believe it was an allegorical story. I believe that according to the story, the death they experienced symbolizes a spiritual death because they were barred from the Tree of Life. The Tree of Life is symbolic for the Word of God, the Reality of Christ which bestows spiritual life. Eternal life is a quality of life, of being near to God; it is not physical life. God never created the physical body to live forever. Once the physical body dies, the soul leaves the body and ascends to the spiritual world where it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements that exist in the heavenly realm.

It is a tree of life to all who grasp it, and whoever holds on to it is happy; its ways are ways of pleasantness, and all it paths are peace. (Proverbs 3:17-18)

The bit about returning to dust doesn't seem to be referring to spiritual death, does it?

No, it doesn’t, but you cannot just look at one verse, you have to look at the verse in context.

Read these verses. It was only AFTER God delineated all the punishments for eating the fruit from the tree that God said that Adam would return to dust!

12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The very last verse in the series is this one:

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

How could anyone with any logical abilities believe that returning to dust was part of the punishment?!
All God was saying is that AFTER Adam and Eve endure all the punishments delineated in the preceding verses they will return to dust (die) Duh! Of course Adam and Eve will die at the end of their life.

Do Christians even bother to read their own Bible and analyze verses and what they mean? I don’t think so, I think they just BELIEVE the false doctrines that were fed to them by the Church, unquestionably. Imagine that, one’s entire life based upon a false belief. Imo, atheists are much better off having no God beliefs.

 

[Tiberius]

Well, Jesus did use metaphors, but the Bible is Not only metaphors - such as Matthew 5:29-30.
The Bible is Not dead. No enemies over the many centuries have been able to get rid of the Bible or Bible people.
Since the Bible is Not dead, we can 'ask' (research) the Bible to see who got it right - Acts of the apostles 17:11.
Yes, lots of different conclusions: just as Jesus said that MANY would come in his name but prove false - Matthew 7:21-23
After the first century ended, both the genuine 'wheat' Christians and the fake 'weed/tares' Christians grew together.
This continues until the soon coming 'time of separation' on Earth at the time of Jesus' glory - Matthew 25:31-33,37.

One way to ' get it right ' is because of the Bible's corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages.
This shows the internal harmony among the many Bible writers.
A comprehensive concordance puts the Bible's subjects or topics in alphabetical order to help us do research.

1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 is Not dead, but a 'living prophecy' that when the powers that be are saying, " Peace and Security..."
that is the 'final signal', so to speak, which is the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Rev. 7:14,9.
Because we are at the ' final phase ' about internationally declaring about God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) as Jesus said to do -
Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 - then we also know 1st Thess. 5 is also at hand.

Metaphor that agrees with metaphor is still metaphor. And we can't use a source to support itself.

 

[Tiberius]

I do understand the burden of proof but I am not the one who bears the burden since I am not the one making the claims, I just have beliefs about the claims of others.

Yes you are. You are claiming that death existed prior to the Fall.

No, If Adam and Eve is just a story, it has a spiritual meaning that was conveyed by means of allegories. It has nothing to do with Jesus’ sacrifice because that sacrifice was never even necessary if there was no original sin committed by Adam and Eve. I believe tying original sin to the cross sacrifice was all a sham that Christianity used to get people to believe in Jesus so they would be saved from a sin that never even existed so they would not go to hell.

Let’s start over.

Every human born is subject to death and has been long before Adam and Eve, since some form of humans have existed on earth for 200,000 years. People are born and then they die, because God made our bodies that way, as mortal.

I do not believe in Adam and Eve is a true story, I believe it was an allegorical story. I believe that according to the story, the death they experienced symbolizes a spiritual death because they were barred from the Tree of Life. The Tree of Life is symbolic for the Word of God, the Reality of Christ which bestows spiritual life. Eternal life is a quality of life, of being near to God; it is not physical life. God never created the physical body to live forever. Once the physical body dies, the soul leaves the body and ascends to the spiritual world where it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements that exist in the heavenly realm.

It is a tree of life to all who grasp it, and whoever holds on to it is happy; its ways are ways of pleasantness, and all it paths are peace. (Proverbs 3:17-18)

Do you believe Jesus literally existed? Do you believe he was literally the son of God? Do you believe he died on the cross? If so, for what purpose?

No, it doesn’t, but you cannot just look at one verse, you have to look at the verse in context.

Read these verses. It was only AFTER God delineated all the punishments for eating the fruit from the tree that God said that Adam would return to dust!

12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The very last verse in the series is this one:

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

How could anyone with any logical abilities believe that returning to dust was part of the punishment?!
All God was saying is that AFTER Adam and Eve endure all the punishments delineated in the preceding verses they will return to dust (die) Duh! Of course Adam and Eve will die at the end of their life.

Do Christians even bother to read their own Bible and analyze verses and what they mean? I don’t think so, I think they just BELIEVE the false doctrines that were fed to them by the Church, unquestionably. Imagine that, one’s entire life based upon a false belief. Imo, atheists are much better off having no God beliefs.

That is not the only interpretation, and you have not convinced me that your interpretation is the correct one. Don't keep going about your interpretation, show me why any other interpretation is wrong.

 

[rational experiences]

When humans see spirit image life recorded living lived heavenly memory we own age apparent image about 33.

Deceased family.

Babies grow by image in dream memory or psychic visit proven by many humans.

Old deceased humans image would own young version also witnessed many times.

As recorded memory given life vision image to own cause. Designer human and scientists.

Science thinks and says I want.

A modern example human bodies small draw from large mass energy heavens a small mass.

I want. Machine that does the same.

We aren't his want. His thesis or comparison. Our little energy use bio food microbes garden food plants or animals eaten. Nothing like his theory I want electricity. We drew water from atmosphere with bio energy food.

His comparing false want As a big mass in machine to channel like from. Small energy electricity.

We only have bio chemical reactions pulse. Not electricity.

That sort of thinking leads to unnatural atmospheric experiments on our bio life as he lies as the theist.

Reason science designer who caused life sacrifice a young adult obvious. As image returned changed.

Did not want baby life
Did not want aged life.

Did own self young adult male human life

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes you are. You are claiming that death existed prior to the Fall.

Fair enough, but even a grade school child (who had not been brainwashed by Christianity) could figure out that death existed before the alleged Fall, because it is a known scientific fact that humans have existed on earth for at least 200,000 years, so that means that humans were born and they DIED long, long before the Bible was ever recorded. Had humans never died before Adam and Eve, the Earth would have been overpopulated long, long ago. This is really all a matter of logic and common sense.

Do you believe Jesus literally existed? Do you believe he was literally the son of God? Do you believe he died on the cross? If so, for what purpose?

Yes, I believe that Jesus literally existed, but I do not believe that Jesus was literally the Son of God, as God has no offspring. So I believe that Son of God refers to the relationship between Jesus and God, Jesus as like a son is to his father.

Yes, I believe that Jesus died on the cross as a sacrifice. According to the following passage, Jesus besought God to confer upon Him the honor of sacrificing Himself as a ransom for the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth. I do believe that humans are prone to sin, I just do not believe it is because Adam and Eve ate a piece of fruit in a garden. I believe we are all born good but since we have both a higher spiritual nature and a lower material nature (sinful nature) and we have free will to choose, we can choose to act according to either nature. That is why there is sin in the world, not because Adam and Eve ate a piece of fruit from a tree.

“That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-Merciful, is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God commanded Him to offer up Ishmael as a sacrifice, so that His steadfastness in the Faith of God and His detachment from all else but Him may be demonstrated unto men. The purpose of God, moreover, was to sacrifice him as a ransom for the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth. This same honor, Jesus, the Son of Mary, besought the one true God, exalted be His name and glory, to confer upon Him. For the same reason was Ḥusayn offered up as a sacrifice by Muḥammad, the Apostle of God.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 75-76

That is not the only interpretation, and you have not convinced me that your interpretation is the correct one. Don't keep going about your interpretation, show me why any other interpretation is wrong.

I do not really have an interpretation of my own but if you want to know one official Baha’i interpretation of the Adam and Eve story, I highly suggest you read the following short chapter.

30: ADAM AND EVE

 

[Trailblazer]

Except for Christ, ALL the resurrections were: physical ones.

That is only according to stories that were written by the authors of the gospels, not according to God or Jesus.

To me the word "it" is a neuter and Not a person ( Not physical or spirit (angel) person )
So, the spirit (it) that returns to God who gave "it" simply goes back (returns) to God.
When something is returned it does Not have to mean resurrected or go up to heaven.
Rather, like a foreclosed house does Not move or go anywhere but is simply returned to the hands of the owner.

That's right. God created the soul (spirit) so it returns to God after the physical body dies.

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths...” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159

So, at death any future life prospect now lies in God's safe hands til Resurrection Day (meaning Jesus' 1,000 year day)

According to my beliefs Resurrection Day has already occurred. It came in the 19th century when the Bab and Baha'u'llah appeared on Earth and proclaimed their Cause, which is the Cause of God. The meaning of the terms Resurrection, Day of Judgment, Paradise and Hell according to my beliefs are explained below.

"An important part of the Báb’s teaching is His explanation of the terms Resurrection, Day of Judgment, Paradise and Hell. By the Resurrection is meant, He said, the appearance of a new Manifestation of the Sun of Truth. The raising of the dead means the spiritual awakening of those who are asleep in the graves of ignorance, heedlessness and lust. The Day of Judgment is the Day of the new Manifestation, by acceptance or rejection of Whose Revelation the sheep are separated from the goats, for the sheep know the voice of the Good Shepherd and follow Him. Paradise is the joy of knowing and loving God, as revealed through His Manifestation, thereby attaining to the utmost perfection of which one is capable, and, after death, obtaining entrance to the Kingdom of God and the life everlasting. Hell is simply deprivation of that knowledge of God with consequent failure to attain divine perfection, and loss of the Eternal Favor. He definitely declared that these terms have no real meaning apart from this; and that the prevalent ideas regarding the resurrection of the material body, a material heaven and hell, and the like, are mere figments of the imagination. He taught that man has a life after death, and that in the afterlife progress towards perfection is limitless."
Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, pp. 20-21

Heaven for some like those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18. Earth for the majority of people - John 3:13

Heaven is for everyone who dies and was close to God. Christ is saying that He is preparing a place for us in heaven where we will dwell with God in close communion with Him and that there is room in heaven for all whom God calls to salvation.

What does the term "mansion" mean in John 14:2?

by Matt Slick

John 14:2 says in the King James Version, "In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." In the NASB it says, "In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you." The word for "mansion" is μονή, monay. It means a dwelling, an abode.

Jesus is not telling us that heaven has compartments or that we will have little places in which to live. In the ancient culture, a father's house was where the extended family lived. Rooms were often added on as the family grew through birth and marriage. What Jesus was doing was using the present day illustration of a loving, tight, family community. So, Christ is saying that He is preparing a place for us in heaven where we will dwell with God in close communion with Him and that there is room in heaven for all whom God calls to salvation.

Please note that some commentators have alluded to the "mansions" as our future resurrected bodies that we will possess at the resurrection and accompanying our entrance into heaven. This seems possible, but the context of the verses does not necessitate that opinion.

What does the term "mansion" mean in John 14:2 in the KJV? | carm.org

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

What does John 3:13 mean? Did no one go to heaven before Jesus?

In John 3:13 Jesus said, "No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man." Some have understood these words to mean no one went to heaven before Jesus. Is this true?

A look at the larger discussion of Jesus in this chapter demonstrates this is not true. Jesus was speaking with Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher who had come to Him at night with questions about the kingdom of God. The emphasis was on Jesus having the authority to teach on eternal life because He alone had come down from heaven to earth. The NLT translates the verse, "No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven."

Verse 17 further illustrates this point. Jesus stated, "For God did not sent his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." Again, the emphasis is on Jesus coming to earth from heaven.

Other passages also illustrate the fact that some people went to heaven (or paradise) before Jesus came to earth. For example, in His response to the religious leaders in Mark 12:26-27, Jesus answered, "And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."

In addition, two men in the Bible were taken up to heaven without dying. Genesis 5:24 marks the event of Enoch entering directly into heaven (also Hebrews 11:5). Second Kings 2:11 records Elijah being taken to heaven by a whirlwind with chariots of fire separating him from Elisha. In Luke 16:19-30, Jesus shares an account of Lazarus in heaven at Abraham's side. This would indicate Abraham being in heaven before Jesus came to earth.

Hebrews 11 furthers includes a lengthy list of Old Testament saints who followed the Lord by faith. Though not explicitly stated, these individuals were noted as God's people who lived for Him and dwell with Him beyond earthly life.

Further, to make the claim no one went to heaven before Jesus provides many inconsistencies with other biblical passages that speak of God's people in eternity with Him. It is much more consistent with the context of John 3 as well as the rest of Scripture to understand Jesus referring to Himself as the one who came from heaven, giving Him authority to speak to Nicodemus regarding eternal life.

What does John 3:13 mean? Did no one go to heaven before Jesus?

 

[Trailblazer]

Revelation 20:4-5, ". . . they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

You must know that even Christians interpret the Book of Revelation differently, which is one reason they hold different beliefs about the thousand years and the first and second resurrections.

Since I am not proficient in the Book of Revelation I had to look this up on the internet. The following article explains how Baha'is would interpret Revelation 20 and why we interpret it that way..

"Since the Book of Revelation offers a prophetic look into the future, its fulfillment is also prophetic.

Because the “Apocalypse of St. John the Divine”—an alternative name for the Book of Revelation—was written by a prophet, it makes perfect sense that its interpretation is best given by another prophet—especially by the prophet who fulfills the prophecies in the Book of Revelation, Baha’u’llah.

Baha’is believe that the Book of Revelation foretells the coming of Baha’u’llah, the prophet and founder of the Baha’i Faith, and that Baha’u’llah has interpreted the major symbolic imagery of the Book of Revelation in his Book of Certitude, which he revealed in January of 1861. Baha’u’llah wrote:

Wert thou to cleanse the mirror of thy heart from the dust of malice, thou wouldst apprehend the meaning of the symbolic terms revealed by the all-embracing Word of God made manifest in every Dispensation, and wouldst discover the mysteries of divine knowledge. – Baha’u’llah, The Book of Certitude, p. 68.

Based on Baha’u’llah’s interpretations—as well as those of Baha’u’llah’s successor and interpreter, Abdu’l-Baha, and of his successor, Shoghi Effendi, as well—individual Baha’is can offer their own personal interpretations of prophecy, with the disclaimer that such interpretations remain personal and not official or authoritative in any way.

With that disclaimer in mind, let’s take a look at one chapter in the Book of Revelation, Chapter 20. (The following interpretation, offered here, is by special request. In a comment, posted on February 16, 2019, a reader asked me to offer a Baha’i interpretation of Chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation: “Hope you will be addressing the meaning of these images in Revelation from the Baha’i perspective.”)

In evaluating this section of the Book of Revelation, we venture into new territory, although the Biblical literary landscape and the symbolic imagery are familiar. Thus the interpretation of Chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation may be undertaken primarily by applying authoritative Baha’i interpretations of similar prophetic texts, especially of other passages of the Book of Revelation itself.

So, before embarking on this new adventure, let me say a few prefatory words about prophecy in relation to the basic Baha’i principle of the harmony of science and religion. Here, the interpretation of prophecy should begin with a discussion of what the science of scholarship has to offer—then a religiously inspired and motivated prophecy can follow. In this way, we can achieve a certain harmony of science and religion. By so doing, we can discover spiritually-inspired and religiously-informed interpretations of prophecy, while at the same time acknowledging and respecting the results of critical scholarship in the academic study of religion.

In Biblical scholarship, the Book of Revelation is best interpreted by way of an “intertextual” reading, which refers to a network of references to related Biblical texts. The Book of Revelation abounds in allusions to passages in the so-called Old Testament. Identifying such “intertexts” amplifies and elucidates the passages in question.

For instance, the allusion “Gog and Magog” in Revelation 20:8 recalls, in the mind of the Biblically literate reader, the prophetic passage in Ezekiel, Chapters 38–39, where a hostile nation from the north will attack Palestine “in the latter days,” but this invader will be utterly vanquished. Therefore the reader of the narrative in Rev. 20:7–10 will naturally regard this event as the fulfillment of Ezekiel’s ancient prophecy of the defeat of God’s enemies in the last days.

Consider this interesting and enlightening statement by Biblical scholar David L. Barr:

A common and helpful metaphor to guide interpretation of a text is to reflect on the three worlds implicit in every text. There is the world within the text, the world behind the text, and the world in front of the text.

[1] Of course the one most apparent to us is the world contained within the text—a world of … Lambs and dragons, beautiful women and beasts, heavenly messengers and human observers. … So there is a dragon in the text, but there were no dragons in the world of the audience.

[2] To understand the dragon in the text, we need to explore the world behind the text, the historical and social world that generated these images, characters, and actions. …

[3] Now without question, this world in front of the text can distort our reading. We have a whole series of best-selling novels called the “Left Behind” series, imagining what will happen on earth after the “Rapture.” This apparently makes good sense to people even though Revelation makes no mention of any rapture, and in fact the notion was invented only in the nineteenth century. But because it has become such a part of our world in front of the text, people see it in the text. In the same way, most of my students are so immersed in readings like Hal Lindsay’s The Late Great Planet Earth that they think that that is what the story says. But of course it is not. While claiming to be a literal reading, this modern interpretation engages in the most outlandish allegorization of the text: the Beast is Russia (or China), the Ten Kings are the European Union, Babylon was, according to Lindsey, a code for a “one world religion.” – David L. Barr, “Beyond Genre: The Expectations of Apocalypse,” in The Reality of Apocalypse: Rhetoric and Politics in the Book of Revelation, pp. 71–73.

In the Book of Revelation, the “dragon” appears time and again, becoming central to the cosmic “combat myth” depicted throughout. The dragon is a powerful (and, in the Christian context, imperial) antagonist, who wages an eschatological war against the righteous and faithful servants of God. The dragon—a chaos monster familiar to students of ancient Near Eastern mythology—is as symbolic as it is destructive and coercive, and is central to the symbolic universe of the Book of Revelation.

Revelation 20 has two literary units: (1) the defeat of Satan (20:1–10), and (2) the vision of the judgment of the dead (20:11–15). In reading and analyzing those two units, it is important to bear in mind that the Book of Revelation was written to seven churches in Asia minor, and had a contemporary message for Christians at that time, who were experiencing relentless religious persecution by the Roman authorities. Revelation’s basic message is that persecuted Christians, if they remain faithful and endure these trials and tribulations, will experience ultimate victory in the Day of Resurrection.

A Baha’i interpretation of the Book of Revelation, after acknowledging the existence of a previous, and immediate, historical-contemporary context, can then apply the prophetic patterns in the Book of Revelation to a present-day context. In this sense, the Book of Revelation is reenacted (and re-fulfilled) without doing violence to the original meaning of the text.

For Baha’is, the Bab and Baha’u’llah represent a messianic duo who inaugurate a new religious dispensation:

Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah are one in spirit and reality. Moreover, each Prophet fulfilled the promise of the One Who came before Him and, likewise, Each announced the One Who would follow. – Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 197.

As in early Christianity, the early days of the Babi and Baha’i religions were marked by intense religious persecution as well. Some 20,000 followers of the Bab were martyred. Many early Baha’is sacrificed their lives in the face of relentless persecution. This time around, it was Persia, not Rome, which was the state-sponsor of these persecutions—aided and abetted by the Muslim clergy in Persia at that time. In that sense, Persia became the new Rome.

In the next essay in this series, we’ll explore how Chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation announced the prophet who would follow the revelation of Christ.

The Book of Revelation, Chapter 20: A Baha’i Interpretation

 

[Tiberius]

When humans see spirit image life recorded living lived heavenly memory we own age apparent image about 33.

Deceased family.

Babies grow by image in dream memory or psychic visit proven by many humans.

Old deceased humans image would own young version also witnessed many times.

As recorded memory given life vision image to own cause. Designer human and scientists.

Science thinks and says I want.

A modern example human bodies small draw from large mass energy heavens a small mass.

I want. Machine that does the same.

We aren't his want. His thesis or comparison. Our little energy use bio food microbes garden food plants or animals eaten. Nothing like his theory I want electricity. We drew water from atmosphere with bio energy food.

His comparing false want As a big mass in machine to channel like from. Small energy electricity.

We only have bio chemical reactions pulse. Not electricity.

That sort of thinking leads to unnatural atmospheric experiments on our bio life as he lies as the theist.

Reason science designer who caused life sacrifice a young adult obvious. As image returned changed.

Did not want baby life
Did not want aged life.

Did own self young adult male human life

I still have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[Tiberius]

Fair enough, but even a grade school child (who had not been brainwashed by Christianity) could figure out that death existed before the alleged Fall, because it is a known scientific fact that humans have existed on earth for at least 200,000 years, so that means that humans were born and they DIED long, long before the Bible was ever recorded. Had humans never died before Adam and Eve, the Earth would have been overpopulated long, long ago. This is really all a matter of logic and common sense.

Of course, once you start down the path of the Bible giving way to science, you may as well toss the Bible out entirely.

In any case, there are plenty of Biblical literalists who disagree with you.

Yes, I believe that Jesus literally existed, but I do not believe that Jesus was literally the Son of God, as God has no offspring. So I believe that Son of God refers to the relationship between Jesus and God, Jesus as like a son is to his father.

Yes, I believe that Jesus died on the cross as a sacrifice. According to the following passage, Jesus besought God to confer upon Him the honor of sacrificing Himself as a ransom for the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth. I do believe that humans are prone to sin, I just do not believe it is because Adam and Eve ate a piece of fruit in a garden. I believe we are all born good but since we have both a higher spiritual nature and a lower material nature (sinful nature) and we have free will to choose, we can choose to act according to either nature. That is why there is sin in the world, not because Adam and Eve ate a piece of fruit from a tree.

“That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-Merciful, is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God commanded Him to offer up Ishmael as a sacrifice, so that His steadfastness in the Faith of God and His detachment from all else but Him may be demonstrated unto men. The purpose of God, moreover, was to sacrifice him as a ransom for the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth. This same honor, Jesus, the Son of Mary, besought the one true God, exalted be His name and glory, to confer upon Him. For the same reason was Ḥusayn offered up as a sacrifice by Muḥammad, the Apostle of God.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 75-76

Your beliefs are not shared by the majority of people. And unfortunately, I'm not capable of fine tuning my arguments to respond to each and every single possible interpretation of religious faith.