For Christians. Was the flood real or just a myth?

[Subduction Zone]

Here’s an interesting legend, from Wikipedia
(The Igorot are a mountain dwelling people, not susceptible to floods):

Philippines

• Igorot:

Once upon a time, when the world was flat and there were no mountains, there lived two brothers, sons of Lumawig, the Great Spirit. The brothers were fond of hunting, and since no mountains had formed there was no good place to catch wild pig and deer, and the older brother said: "Let us cause water to flow over all the world and cover it, and then mountains will rise up."[6]
compare Psalms 104

Some remnants of truth from the ancient past, maybe?



“What evidence proves that there truly was a global deluge?

Other possible evidence of a drastic change: Remains of mammoths and rhinoceroses have been found in different parts of the earth. Some of these were found in Siberian cliffs; others were preserved in Siberian and Alaskan ice. (PICTURE, Vol. 1, p. 328) In fact, some were found with food undigested in their stomachs or still unchewed in their teeth, indicating that they died suddenly. It is estimated, from the trade in ivory tusks, that bones of tens of thousands of such mammoths have been found. The fossil remains of many other animals, such as lions, tigers, bears, and elk, have been found in common strata, which may indicate that all of these were destroyed simultaneously. Some have pointed to such finds as definite physical proof of a rapid change in climate and sudden destruction caused by a universal flood. Others, however, favor explanations for the death of these animals that do not involve an earth-wide catastrophe. Proof that the Flood occurred is not dependent on such fossils and frozen animal remains.

Flood Legends. Such a cataclysm as the Deluge, which washed the whole world of that time out of existence, would never be forgotten by the survivors. They would talk about it to their children and their children’s children. For 500 years after the Deluge, Shem lived on to relate the event to many generations. He died only ten years before the birth of Jacob. Moses preserved the true account in Genesis. Sometime after the Flood, when God-defying people built the Tower of Babel, Jehovah confused their language and scattered them “over all the surface of the earth.” (Ge 11:9) It was only natural that these people took with them stories of the Flood and passed them on from father to son. The fact that there are not merely a few but perhaps hundreds of different stories about that great Deluge, and that such stories are found among the traditions of many primitive races the world over, is a strong proof that all these people had a common origin and that their early forefathers shared that Flood experience in common.—CHART, Vol. 1, p. 328.

These folklore accounts of the Deluge agree with some major features of the Biblical account: (1) a place of refuge for a few survivors, (2) an otherwise global destruction of life by water, and (3) a seed of mankind preserved. The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Chinese, the Druids of Britain, the Polynesians, the Eskimos and Greenlanders, the Africans, the Hindus, and the American Indians—all of these have their Flood stories. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (Vol. 2, p. 319) states: “Flood stories have been discovered among nearly all nations and tribes. Though most common on the Asian mainland and the islands immediately south of it and on the North American continent, they have been found on all the continents. Totals of the number of stories known run as high as about 270 . . . The universality of the flood accounts is usually taken as evidence for the universal destruction of humanity by a flood and the spread of the human race from one locale and even from one family. Though the traditions may not all refer to the same flood, apparently the vast majority do. The assertion that many of these flood stories came from contacts with missionaries will not stand up because most of them were gathered by anthropologists not interested in vindicating the Bible, and they are filled with fanciful and pagan elements evidently the result of transmission for extended periods of time in a pagan society. Moreover, some of the ancient accounts were written by people very much in opposition to the Hebrew-Christian tradition.”—Edited by G. Bromiley, 1982.

In times past, certain primitive people (in Australia, Egypt, Fiji, Society Islands, Peru, Mexico, and other places) preserved a possible remnant of these traditions about the Flood by observing in November a ‘Feast of Ancestors’ or a ‘Festival of the Dead.’ Such customs reflected a memory of the destruction caused by the Deluge. According to the book Life and Work at the Great Pyramid, the festival in Mexico was held on the 17th of November because they “had a tradition that at that time the world had been previously destroyed; and they dreaded lest a similar catastrophe would, at the end of a cycle, annihilate the human race.” (By Professor C. Piazzi Smyth, Edinburgh, 1867, Vol. II, pp. 390, 391) Notes the book The Worship of the Dead: “This festival [of the dead] is . . . held by all on or about the very day on which, according to the Mosaic account, the Deluge took place, viz., the seventeenth day of the second month—the month nearly corresponding with our November.” (By J. Garnier, London, 1904, p. 4) Interestingly, the Bible reports that the Flood began “in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month.” (Ge 7:11) That “second month” corresponds to the latter part of October and the first part of November on our calendar.”

— Excerpt from Deluge — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Wow! Too bad that the concept of evidence is beyond you. Misinterpreting facts is not evidence for your side.

Evidence is data that supports only one side of an argument. If your concept is not testable then by definition you have no evidence since an idea has to be falsifiable to even have evidence for it. An idea that is not testable is merely an ad hoc explanation and worthless in the world of reality.

Would you like to learn how and why we know that there was no flood? There is a thread somewhere here dedicated to that topic.

 

[Looncall]

Here’s an interesting legend, from Wikipedia
(The Igorot are a mountain dwelling people, not susceptible to floods):

Philippines

• Igorot:

Once upon a time, when the world was flat and there were no mountains, there lived two brothers, sons of Lumawig, the Great Spirit. The brothers were fond of hunting, and since no mountains had formed there was no good place to catch wild pig and deer, and the older brother said: "Let us cause water to flow over all the world and cover it, and then mountains will rise up."[6]
compare Psalms 104

Some remnants of truth from the ancient past, maybe?



“What evidence proves that there truly was a global deluge?

Other possible evidence of a drastic change: Remains of mammoths and rhinoceroses have been found in different parts of the earth. Some of these were found in Siberian cliffs; others were preserved in Siberian and Alaskan ice. (PICTURE, Vol. 1, p. 328) In fact, some were found with food undigested in their stomachs or still unchewed in their teeth, indicating that they died suddenly. It is estimated, from the trade in ivory tusks, that bones of tens of thousands of such mammoths have been found. The fossil remains of many other animals, such as lions, tigers, bears, and elk, have been found in common strata, which may indicate that all of these were destroyed simultaneously. Some have pointed to such finds as definite physical proof of a rapid change in climate and sudden destruction caused by a universal flood. Others, however, favor explanations for the death of these animals that do not involve an earth-wide catastrophe. Proof that the Flood occurred is not dependent on such fossils and frozen animal remains.

Flood Legends. Such a cataclysm as the Deluge, which washed the whole world of that time out of existence, would never be forgotten by the survivors. They would talk about it to their children and their children’s children. For 500 years after the Deluge, Shem lived on to relate the event to many generations. He died only ten years before the birth of Jacob. Moses preserved the true account in Genesis. Sometime after the Flood, when God-defying people built the Tower of Babel, Jehovah confused their language and scattered them “over all the surface of the earth.” (Ge 11:9) It was only natural that these people took with them stories of the Flood and passed them on from father to son. The fact that there are not merely a few but perhaps hundreds of different stories about that great Deluge, and that such stories are found among the traditions of many primitive races the world over, is a strong proof that all these people had a common origin and that their early forefathers shared that Flood experience in common.—CHART, Vol. 1, p. 328.

These folklore accounts of the Deluge agree with some major features of the Biblical account: (1) a place of refuge for a few survivors, (2) an otherwise global destruction of life by water, and (3) a seed of mankind preserved. The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Chinese, the Druids of Britain, the Polynesians, the Eskimos and Greenlanders, the Africans, the Hindus, and the American Indians—all of these have their Flood stories. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (Vol. 2, p. 319) states: “Flood stories have been discovered among nearly all nations and tribes. Though most common on the Asian mainland and the islands immediately south of it and on the North American continent, they have been found on all the continents. Totals of the number of stories known run as high as about 270 . . . The universality of the flood accounts is usually taken as evidence for the universal destruction of humanity by a flood and the spread of the human race from one locale and even from one family. Though the traditions may not all refer to the same flood, apparently the vast majority do. The assertion that many of these flood stories came from contacts with missionaries will not stand up because most of them were gathered by anthropologists not interested in vindicating the Bible, and they are filled with fanciful and pagan elements evidently the result of transmission for extended periods of time in a pagan society. Moreover, some of the ancient accounts were written by people very much in opposition to the Hebrew-Christian tradition.”—Edited by G. Bromiley, 1982.

In times past, certain primitive people (in Australia, Egypt, Fiji, Society Islands, Peru, Mexico, and other places) preserved a possible remnant of these traditions about the Flood by observing in November a ‘Feast of Ancestors’ or a ‘Festival of the Dead.’ Such customs reflected a memory of the destruction caused by the Deluge. According to the book Life and Work at the Great Pyramid, the festival in Mexico was held on the 17th of November because they “had a tradition that at that time the world had been previously destroyed; and they dreaded lest a similar catastrophe would, at the end of a cycle, annihilate the human race.” (By Professor C. Piazzi Smyth, Edinburgh, 1867, Vol. II, pp. 390, 391) Notes the book The Worship of the Dead: “This festival [of the dead] is . . . held by all on or about the very day on which, according to the Mosaic account, the Deluge took place, viz., the seventeenth day of the second month—the month nearly corresponding with our November.” (By J. Garnier, London, 1904, p. 4) Interestingly, the Bible reports that the Flood began “in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month.” (Ge 7:11) That “second month” corresponds to the latter part of October and the first part of November on our calendar.”

— Excerpt from Deluge — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

People must live near water to survive, so of course there are lots of flood stories.

A flood such as described in the bible would leave easily-noticed traces worldwide, datable to the same time. None such is found. Therefore, Noah's flood never happened. No amount of theological tap dancing can rescue it.

Anyone teaching Noah's flood as real is guilty of fraud.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Here’s another article presenting evidence on the Flood.

There are just too many details given in the Biblical account, including dates and the lengths of each related event, to deny the presumption of it being allegorical:

Noah’s Log—Does It Have Meaning for Us? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

And when combining all the evidence that’s been disclosed in this thread which supports a global Flood — geologic, archaeologic, anthropologic, etc. — it reveals a closed-mind of those who wish to ignore it all.


I understand why so many wish not to accept it. That would mean giving the Bible a more credible stance, and that would mean it’s miracles, also....the Flood was a huge supernatural event. The accepted naturalistic tenets of the scientific establishment would falter, if not crumble, and that cannot be allowed!

More evidence of the Flood will be posted.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

People must live near water to survive, so of course there are lots of flood stories.
A flood such as described in the bible would leave easily-noticed traces worldwide, datable to the same time. None such is found............
.

If none such is found I wonder why there are hundreds of similar easily-noticed traces of flood stories about divine warnings given where both humans and animals spared by being preserved alive in a vessel.
All found in earth's continents and islands of the sea ranging from (A)Australia (Kurnai ) to New Zealand ( Maoir ) to (W)Wales ( Dwyfan-Dwyfach legend ). Even in Egypt's Book of the Dead besides Babylon's Gilgamesh epic.
In China's flood legend (Lolo) comes the Chinese character for the word 'ship' is derived from the idea of eight (8) persons in a vessel. ( Eight people were in Noah's Ark ).
Even if one does Not want to accept the Deluge account as being real, a reason for that Flood was because of the amount of violence on Earth as per Genesis 6:11, and Jesus forewarned at Matthew 24:37-39 that as the days of Noah were so it would be with the coming of Jesus that people will be taking No notice. So, as most people of Noah's day paid No notice, it should Not surprise anyone that is also true of today's world.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Hey, @URAVIP2ME, you stole my thunder, about the Chinese character for “ship”....good job!

So here is a compelling piece of evidence, the dimensions of the Ark itself, offered by a Naval architect:

“For more than 40 years, I have worked as a naval architect and marine engineer. My work has involved designing vessels of various shapes and sizes, along with the mechanical and other systems that propel them. In 1963, while I was living in British Columbia, Canada, one of Jehovah’s Witnesses showed me that the Bible book of Genesis describes Noah’s ark as a long box, or chest. This description intrigued me, and I decided to look into it further.

The Genesis account shows that God determined to cleanse the earth of wickedness by deluging the planet with water. He told Noah to construct an ark in order to preserve himself, his family, and representatives of the animal world through this great Flood. God told Noah to make the ark 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high. (Genesis 6:15) According to one conservative estimate, this would make the ark about 438 feet [134 m] long, 73 feet [22 m] wide, and 44 feet [13 m] high.* It thus had a gross volume of some 1,400,000 cubic feet [40,000 cu m].

The Ark’s Design

The ark was constructed with three decks, which gave it added strength and provided a total floor space of about 96,000 square feet [8,900 sq m]. It was built of resinous—and thus water-resistant—wood, possibly cypress, and was sealed inside and outside with tar. (Genesis 6:14-16) We are not told how Noah fastened the timbers together. But even before relating the Flood account, the Bible mentions forgers of copper and iron tools. (Genesis 4:22) In any case, to this day wooden drive pins known as treenails are used to build some wooden ships.

The ark had internal compartments, a door in its side, and a one-cubit-high tsoʹhar, which may have been a gabled roof, possibly having openings below it for ventilation and light. The Genesis account makes no mention, however, of a keel or a prow or of any sails, oars, or rudders on the ark. In fact, the same Hebrew word for “ark” is used to describe the pitch-covered basket used by the mother of the infant Moses to keep him afloat in the waters of the Nile River.—Exodus 2:3, 10.

Good Seakeeping

The ark’s length was six times its width and ten times its height. Many modern ships have similar proportions, although for them the length-to-breadth ratio is chosen with regard to the power required to move them through the water. The ark, on the other hand, had only to float. How well would it have performed?

The manner in which vessels respond to wind and waves is called seakeeping behavior. This too is related to a vessel’s proportions. The Bible describes the tremendous downpour that produced the Flood and also says that God later caused a wind to blow. (Genesis 7:11, 12, 17-20; 8:1) The Scriptures do not say how strong the waves and wind were, but likely both wind and waves would have been powerful and changeable, even as they can be today. The longer and harder the wind blows, the higher and farther apart are the waves. In addition, any seismic action could have produced strong waves.

The ark’s proportions contributed to its stability, preventing it from capsizing. The ark was also designed to deal with the forces that could cause it to pitch lengthwise in heavy seas. Extreme pitching—when each wave lifts one end of the vessel and then allows it to plunge downward—would have been very uncomfortable for the people and animals on board. Pitching also puts heavy stresses on a vessel. The structure must be strong enough to resist the tendency to sag in the middle when large waves lift both ends of the vessel at the same time. Yet, when a large wave lifts the vessel at its midpoint, with nothing to support its ends, the bow and stern may bend downward. God told Noah to use a length-to-depth ratio of 10 to 1. Later shipbuilders would learn only by hard experience that such a ratio can accommodate these stresses.

Safe and Comfortable

Because of the ark’s chestlike shape, buoyancy—the force that makes a boat float—would have been uniform from end to end. Its weight too would have been uniform. Likely, Noah made sure that the cargo—including the animals and more than a year’s supply of food—was distributed evenly. Good weight distribution minimizes the additional stress that cargo places on a vessel’s structure. Thus, two main factors contributed to the ability of the ark and its passengers to ride out the global Flood safely—the ark’s divinely originated design and Jehovah’s protective care. God undoubtedly saw to it that the ark came to rest in a safe and suitable location.

My thorough examination of this subject led me to conclude that what the Bible says about Noah’s ark is realistic and consistent with modern shipbuilding practice.”

— Excerpt from Noah’s Ark and Naval Architecture — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY


Now how would Noah, or Moses for that matter (since he recorded the account), know that such dimensions were ideally stable for a non-powered ship with that purpose in mind? (It only needed to float.)

More evidence indicating a Divine origin!

A modern scientific assessment by University students is up next.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

University of Leicester experiment performed by students in their physics department:

Students Surprised to Find Noah's Ark Feasible, page 1

Same event, different article:

‘Noah’s Ark would have floated’

The above article contains a link to the peer-reviewed report.

 

[Fool]

The jury seems to be out on this question among those who identify as Christians.....so was the flood a real event or was it just a dramatized myth with a message?

God commanded Noah: “Make for yourself an ark out of wood of a resinous tree.”—Genesis 6:14.

Some might be familiar with children's storybook illustrations like this...

But what is exactly is an ark?

This ark was not a ship, as some assume. It had neither bow nor stern, keel nor rudder—no bends or curves. It was basically a great chest, or box.

More like this....

God gave Noah the precise dimensions of the ark, some details regarding its design, and directions to coat it inside and out with tar. And he told Noah why: “Here I am bringing the deluge of waters upon the earth . . . Everything that is in the earth will expire.” However, Jehovah gave this direction to Noah: “You must go into the ark, you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you.” Noah was also to bring representatives of all kinds of animals. Only those aboard the ark could survive the coming Deluge!—Genesis 6:17-20.

Have we ever stopped to imagine the size of this vessel?
This replica built to Biblical specifications gives us some idea....

Noah faced a gigantic task. This ark was to be enormous—some 437 feet (133 m) long, 73 feet (22 m) wide, and 44 feet (13 m) tall. It was far larger than the largest seagoing wooden ships built even in modern times. Did Noah back off from this assignment, complain about its challenges, or alter the details to make it easier on himself? The Bible answers: “Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.”—Genesis 6:22.

The work took decades, perhaps 40 to 50 years. There were trees to fell, logs to haul, and beams to hew, shape, and join. The ark was to have three stories, or decks, a number of compartments, and a door in the side. Evidently, there were windows along the top, as well as a roof that likely peaked in the middle with a slight pitch so that water would run off.—Genesis 6:14-16.

On completion of this assignment God told Noah....“Go, you and all your household, into the ark.” At the same time, God told Noah to take all the varieties of animals into the ark—by sevens in the case of the clean ones, fit for sacrificial use, and the rest by twos.—Genesis 7:1-3.

It is assumed by many that just two of every animas that God brought to Noah went on board the ark, but animals designated as "clean" (i.e. suitable for sacrifice and later for food) were taken in by sevens. That was three breeding pairs and one for sacrifice (which is what Noah did upon disembarking from the ark to thank his God for preserving his family alive through such a cataclysmic event.)

It must have been an unforgettable sight. From the horizon they streamed in by the hundreds—walking, flying, crawling, waddling, lumbering—all in a dizzying variety of sizes, shapes, and dispositions. We need not imagine poor Noah trying to corral, wrangle, or somehow cajole all those wild animals into entering the confined space of the ark. The account says that “they went in . . . to Noah inside the ark.”—Genesis 7:9.

And since dinosaurs were long extinct before man came on the scene, there were no dinosaurs on the ark.

Some skeptics might ask: ‘How could such a thing happen? And how could all those animals coexist peacefully in a confined space?’ Consider this: Is it really beyond the power of the Creator of the universe to control his animal creations, even render them tame and docile if needed? Remember, Jehovah is the God who parted the Red Sea and made the sun stand still. Could he not carry out every event described in Noah’s account?

Excerpts from 2013 WATCHTOWER. Pics from Google

ark = ark of the covenant = chariot = temple = vehicle = holy grail = body

it was a transmutation of turning water into wine, or a baser substance into one of spirit.

 

[Subduction Zone]

University of Leicester experiment performed by students in their physics department:

Students Surprised to Find Noah's Ark Feasible, page 1

Same event, different article:

‘Noah’s Ark would have floated’

The above article contains a link to the peer-reviewed report.

From your first source:

"assuming it was properly constructed—could have supported the mass of 70,000 animals."

That is a huge assumption. There is no way to make a wooden vehicle that large that is "properly constructed". Second 70,000 animals is nowhere near enough. There are millions of species, worse yet there are still problems that refute that claim. Google search the concept of "population bottlenecks" to start. Just because an object would float for a very short period of time does not make it seaworthy.

 

[Deeje]

ark = ark of the covenant = chariot = temple = vehicle = holy grail = body

it was a transmutation of turning water into wine, or a baser substance into one of spirit.

When people look for ways to 'explain' God and to 'explain' what he has done to suit some man-made idea about his activities, you end up with millions of useless ideas, none of which are right.

Why not simply allow the Bible to tell its own story? Allow the Creator to be the all-powerful entity he says he is and learn from his instruction. There are so many people wanting the flood to mean something other than what it does, which leads to confusion and ambiguity.

Jesus made clear reference to Noah and the flood as a teaching tool....an example of what was to happen again at the end of another wicked system of things.

Look at the world of today and see how it is now in the same condition, morally and spiritually as it was in the pre-flood era. Mankind was influenced by supernatural creatures who materialized on earth and produced a race of gigantic freaks whom the Bible calls "the Nephilim" (literally those who cause others to fall down). These were obsessed with sex and were extremely violent in nature. God took drastic action to eliminate them and their rebellious fathers. (Genesis 6:4)

But why did God choose to do things the way he did? Couldn't he just have saved Noah and destroyed all the ones who were acting wickedly? There was a reason for his actions that is not apparent to all who are familiar with the story. Throughout the OT are accounts of angels materializing human form in order to convey messages to God's earthly servants. It appears as if this ability is part of their creation, since the angels who materialized in Noah's day did not need God's permission to do so. Their intentions were not honorable. As creatures of flesh and with a rebellious nature, these became obsessed with carnal pleasures unnatural to them in their spirit form. Producing hybrid offspring created humans that God never intended to live. Their influence soon permeated all mankind living at that time, so that God lamented what had taken place.

Genesis 6:5-6..."Consequently, Jehovah saw that man’s wickedness was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time. 6 Jehovah regretted that he had made men on the earth, and his heart was saddened."

So he planned his course of action in a way that would give the world a new beginning, take the ability to materialize away from rebel spirit creatures, and eliminate from existence all who failed to be righteous in their heart like Noah.

Genesis 6:7-8...."So Jehovah said: “I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, man together with domestic animals, creeping animals, and flying creatures of the heavens, for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah."

He could also use the many aspects of that pre-flood era to illustrate what humans do when they follow their own plans instead of listening to God. It was not meant to solve mankind's problems completely, because the promised seed was still to come (Genesis 3:15).....but it slowed things down so that God's purpose could be worked out in his own time and way. The appearance of the "seed" (Messiah) was still a long way off.

But why destroy the animals? What possible reason could God have to do that? As Creator, he has the right to take life as easily as he gives it. There is an account in the Bible where Jesus encountered two demon possessed men.....

Matthew 8:28-34...."When he came to the other side into the region of the Gad·a·renesʹ, two demon-possessed men coming out from among the tombs met him. They were unusually fierce, so nobody had the courage to pass by on that road. 29 And look! they screamed, saying: “What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?” 30 A long way off from them, a herd of many swine was feeding. 31 So the demons began to plead with him, saying: “If you expel us, send us into the herd of swine.” 32 And he said to them: “Go!” With that they came out and went off into the swine, and look! the entire herd rushed over the precipice into the sea and died in the waters. 33 But the herders fled, and going into the city, they reported everything, including the account of the demon-possessed men. 34 And look! all the city turned out to meet Jesus, and when they saw him, they urged him to depart from their region."

There are several points in this account that I believe relate to Noah's story.

Firstly, the fierce nature of the demons and what they said to Jesus. "What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?”

Even though the son of God was walking the earth, these demons had to enter into the bodies of other humans in order to carry out their trouble-making activities. This indicates that they could no longer materialize. The apostle Peter speaks of a condition of restraint that the demon fathers of the Nephilim faced upon their return to the spirit realm. (2 Peter 2:4) This is "Tartarus", sometimes wrongly translated as "hell".

They identified Jesus straight away as the "Son of God" and asked if he had "come here to torment [them] before the appointed time?”

So God's appointed time to deal with those rebellious "sons" was even yet future in Jesus' day.

What they next requested was also interesting.
"So the demons began to plead with him, saying: “If you expel us, send us into the herd of swine.” 32 And he said to them: “Go!” With that they came out and went off into the swine, and look! the entire herd rushed over the precipice into the sea and died in the waters."

Demons can also possess animals. But why did Jesus allow them their request? Such an event would be spoken about by anyone who heard of it, as the account relates. According to the Law, swine were unclean animals to Jews and viewed with loathing. Whereas some other nations did not eat pork, to the Greeks it was a delicacy. Hence, likely as a result of Hellenistic influence, by the time of Jesus Christ’s earthly ministry, there were apparently quite a number of pigs in Palestine, particularly in the Decapolis region. The whole city responded positively to Jesus but they warned him to leave the area.

So in Noah's time, perhaps by eliminating all possible life forms for the demons to inhabit, God forced them back to the spirit realm where he dealt with them appropriately....but he did not destroy them or their leader at this time. This rebellion had to run its full course so that precedents could be set for all time to come.

In our day the demons are more active than ever spreading their immoral ways so that the earth is again "filled with violence" and sexual immorality. Sex and violence permeated the pre-flood world, just as they do today.

How do we know this?

In Revelation 12:7-12 we find an account about what was to occur just before Christ's return and as a result of his appointment as King of God's kingdom. His first act was to evict satan and his hordes from heaven. They did not go quietly.

"And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him......On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”

This is why in these last days, things have become gradually worse and worse, both morally and spiritually.
This world is obsessed with sex and violence once again. As their time grows shorter, their activities were going to intensify. We can see it with our own eyes.

This why Jesus used the "days of Noah" as an example of what would occur again in another time period that heralded the end of another era. All the signs are there for those who are granted insight to "see" the reasons for why the world is in such a mess.

Those who are "saved" through this event will have built their own spiritual "ark" with much effort and with the help of other "family" members, just as Noah did. He left us the perfect example of how to save ourselves....following Jehovah's instructions to the letter.

"For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."

There it is.....this is what I believe.

 

[Fool]

When people look for ways to 'explain' God and to 'explain' what he has done to suit some man-made idea about his activities, you end up with millions if useless ideas, none of which are right.

Why not simply allow the Bible to tell its own story? Allow the Creator to be the all-powerful entity he says he is and learn from his instruction. There are so many people wanting the flood to mean something other than what it does, which leads to confusion and ambiguity.

Jesus made clear reference to Noah and the flood as a teaching tool....an example of what was to happen again at the end of another wicked system of things.

Look at the world of today and see how it is now in the same condition, morally and spiritually as it was in the pre-flood era. Mankind was influenced by supernatural creatures who materialized on earth and produced a race of gigantic freaks whom the Bible calls "the Nephilim" (literally those who cause others to fall down). These were obsessed with sex and were extremely violent in nature. God took drastic action to eliminate them and their rebellious fathers. (Genesis 6:4)

But why did God choose to do things the way he did? Couldn't he just have saved Noah and destroyed all the ones who were acting wickedly? There was a reason for his actions that is not apparent to all who are familiar with the story. Throughout the OT are accounts of angels materializing human form in order to convey messages to God's earthly servants. It appears as if this ability is part of their creation, since the angels who materialized in Noah's day did not need God's permission to do so. Their intentions were not honorable. As creatures of flesh and with a rebellious nature, these became obsessed with carnal pleasures unnatural to them in their spirit form. Producing hybrid offspring created humans that God never intended to live. Their influence soon permeated all mankind living at that time, so that God lamented what had taken place.

Genesis 6:5-6..."Consequently, Jehovah saw that man’s wickedness was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time. 6 Jehovah regretted that he had made men on the earth, and his heart was saddened."

So he planned his course of action in a way that would give the world a new beginning, take the ability to materialize away from rebel spirit creatures, and eliminate from existence all who failed to be righteous in their heart like Noah.

Genesis 6:7-8...."So Jehovah said: “I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, man together with domestic animals, creeping animals, and flying creatures of the heavens, for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah."

He could also use the many aspects of that pre-flood era to illustrate what humans do when they follow their own plans instead of listening to God. It was not meant to solve mankind's problems completely, because the promised seed was still to come (Genesis 3:15).....but it slowed things down so that God's purpose could be worked out in his own time and way. The appearance of the "seed" (Messiah) was still a long way off.

But why destroy the animals? What possible reason could God have to do that? As Creator, he has the right to take life as easily as he gives it. There is an account in the Bible where Jesus encountered two demon possessed men.....

Matthew 8:28-34...."When he came to the other side into the region of the Gad·a·renesʹ, two demon-possessed men coming out from among the tombs met him. They were unusually fierce, so nobody had the courage to pass by on that road. 29 And look! they screamed, saying: “What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?” 30 A long way off from them, a herd of many swine was feeding. 31 So the demons began to plead with him, saying: “If you expel us, send us into the herd of swine.” 32 And he said to them: “Go!” With that they came out and went off into the swine, and look! the entire herd rushed over the precipice into the sea and died in the waters. 33 But the herders fled, and going into the city, they reported everything, including the account of the demon-possessed men. 34 And look! all the city turned out to meet Jesus, and when they saw him, they urged him to depart from their region."

There are several points in this account that I believe relate to Noah's story.

Firstly, the fierce nature of the demons and what they said to Jesus. "What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?”

Even though the son of God was walking the earth, these demons had to enter into the bodies of other humans in order to carry out their trouble-making activities. This indicates that they could no longer materialize. The apostle Peter speaks of a condition of restraint that the demon fathers of the Nephilim faced upon their return to the spirit realm. (2 Peter 2:4) This is "Tartarus", sometimes wrongly translated as "hell".

They identified Jesus straight away as the "Son of God" and asked if he had "come here to torment [them] before the appointed time?”

So God's appointed time to deal with those rebellious "sons" was even yet future in Jesus' day.

What they next requested was also interesting.
"So the demons began to plead with him, saying: “If you expel us, send us into the herd of swine.” 32 And he said to them: “Go!” With that they came out and went off into the swine, and look! the entire herd rushed over the precipice into the sea and died in the waters."

Demons can also possess animals. But why did Jesus allow them their request? Such an event would be spoken about by anyone who heard of it, as the account relates. According to the Law, swine were unclean animals to Jews and viewed with loathing. Whereas some other nations did not eat pork, to the Greeks it was a delicacy. Hence, likely as a result of Hellenistic influence, by the time of Jesus Christ’s earthly ministry, there were apparently quite a number of pigs in Palestine, particularly in the Decapolis region. The whole city responded positively to Jesus but they warned him to leave the area.

So in Noah's time, by eliminating all possible life forms for the demons to inhabit, God forced them back to the spirit realm where he dealt with them appropriately....but he did not destroy them or their leader at this time. This rebellion had to run its full course so that precedents could be set for all time to come.

In our day the demons are more active than ever spreading their immoral ways so that the earth is again "filled with violence" and sexual immorality. Sex and violence permeated the pre-flood world, just as they do today.

How do we know this?

In Revelation 12:7-12 we find an account about what was to occur just before Christ's return and as a result of his appointment as King of God's kingdom. His first act was to evict satan and his hordes from heaven. They did not go quietly.

"And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him......On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”

This is why in these last days, things have become gradually worse and worse, both morally and spiritually.
This world is obsessed with sex and violence once again. As their time grows shorter, their activities were going to intensify. We can see it with our own eyes.

This why Jesus used the "days of Noah" as an example of what would occur again in another time period that heralded the end of another era. All the signs are there for those who are granted insight to "see" the reasons for why the world is in such a mess.

Those who are "saved" through this event will have built their own spiritual "ark" with much effort and with the help of other "family" members, just as Noah did. He left us the perfect example of how to save ourselves....following Jehovah's instructions to the letter.

"For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."

There it is.....this is what I believe.

Love is a catalyst that effects peoples lives directly.

the bible speaks of how it effects humanity and was written by human hands.


Judgment and Hope
66 This is what the Lord says:

“Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
Where is the house, you will build for me?
Where will my resting place be?
2 Has not my hand made all these things,
and so they came into being?”
declares the Lord.

 

[Ingledsva]

University of Leicester experiment performed by students in their physics department:

Students Surprised to Find Noah's Ark Feasible, page 1

Same event, different article:

‘Noah’s Ark would have floated’

The above article contains a link to the peer-reviewed report.

That is a stupid article.

ONE, - they would have had to house more than the "estimated 35,000," and even the doubled 70,000.

Two, - it tells us this doubled number is for the "pairs" the Bible says went in. Apparently they missed the part about edible animals, sevens, etc.

Three, - it tells us this estimate is by total interior mass. "Using the density of water and Archimedes' principle of buoyancy, they calculated the total mass the ark could contain without sinking." In other words squished to a mushy dead mass, one on top of the other to the top of the supposed Ark space. Thus not alive, no moving room, poop room, food room, people room, etc.

Also, these "physics students" should have known that any boat filled to the top like that, - would roll-over with the first wave. Overloaded boats roll-over and sink all the time. Not that it would matter in this Ark case, as all it would be holding would be a squished bloody dead mass.

*

 

[Looncall]

If none such is found I wonder why there are hundreds of similar easily-noticed traces of flood stories about divine warnings given where both humans and animals spared by being preserved alive in a vessel.
All found in earth's continents and islands of the sea ranging from (A)Australia (Kurnai ) to New Zealand ( Maoir ) to (W)Wales ( Dwyfan-Dwyfach legend ). Even in Egypt's Book of the Dead besides Babylon's Gilgamesh epic.
In China's flood legend (Lolo) comes the Chinese character for the word 'ship' is derived from the idea of eight (8) persons in a vessel. ( Eight people were in Noah's Ark ).
Even if one does Not want to accept the Deluge account as being real, a reason for that Flood was because of the amount of violence on Earth as per Genesis 6:11, and Jesus forewarned at Matthew 24:37-39 that as the days of Noah were so it would be with the coming of Jesus that people will be taking No notice. So, as most people of Noah's day paid No notice, it should Not surprise anyone that is also true of today's world.

You have not addressed the lack of physical evidence that would certainly be left by such a flood.

Unless you can account for that, no amount of scribblings by ignorant savages can bring your myth into the realm of things that have actually taken place.

As far as your vile threats go, I "reck" them not a bean, as Chaucer would say.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

The jury seems to be out on this question among those who identify as Christians.....so was the flood a real event or was it just a dramatized myth with a message?

A myth, plagiarized from another myth that may or may not be based on some actual mundane local flood.

Did Noah back off from this assignment, complain about its challenges, or alter the details to make it easier on himself? The Bible answers: “Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.”—Genesis 6:22.

I think that's called "handwaving".

Some skeptics might ask: ‘How could such a thing happen? And how could all those animals coexist peacefully in a confined space?’ Consider this: Is it really beyond the power of the Creator of the universe to control his animal creations, even render them tame and docile if needed? Remember, Jehovah is the God who parted the Red Sea and made the sun stand still. Could he not carry out every event described in Noah’s account?

Alas, because of the source for this post involved, we'll never get answers. Just more handwaving.

Here you see what seems to be the best theory for the ark and how it dealt with its size and waves.

I want to see Ham's ark have to deal with its size and waves. I mean, since he's so accurate and all, what with the electrical outlets and air conditioning. I'm sure Ham's boat is seaworthy, right?

It's just funny to me that Ham builds a replica for what should be the most epic boats in human history far inland with no chance in hell of seeing anywhere near enough water to float off the ground, much less ... well, it doesn't sail, so I don't know what term you'd use.

Since I have no desire to debate, but just to discuss with other Christians about this topic, I would appreciate it not being moved. Thank you ADA.

What is there to discuss if you don't want to hear from critics?

Too fast to move a town, but so slow that one could have crawled away from it.

Kind of like Hurricane Katrina:

N'Awlins: We didn't have time!
Reality: The news was covering it for, like, a WEEK prior to landfall. Your city is the lowest point in the country, you call it a fishbowl, and you wonder why you shouldn't be there the moment a storm enters the Gulf?

This, of course, is Ken Ham's ark in rural Kentucky (US). He required many millions of dollars, thousands of laborers, and technology like cranes, metal braces, and metal fasteners presumably unavailable to Noah.

And yet boasts of how it proves the story is true. That's not how experimental replication works. That's not how any of this works.

I have a different hypothesis to account for so many global flood stories: Finding marine fossils on mountaintops. How did they get there? Today, we know that it is due to uplifting of sea floors. I would have thought it more likely that the water rose to submerge all dry land rather than the mountains rising from the sea.

Just as mythological monsters were just people finding weird fossils and making up stories for them just like we do for constellations.

The fact that God is supposed to be the all powerful creator of everything is what makes this story so silly to begin with. Why the heck would God need Noah to gather a pair of all of the animals in the world and stick them on a boat? Obviously this all powerful God could have flooded the entire world, wiped out all of the animals, and then as soon as the waters receded snapped his metaphorical fingers and created a new pair of every single animal species. According to Genesis this is something he could have done within a fraction of a single day. But instead He has Noah and his family labor for decades, not just to build a boat to save themselves, but one big enough for a pair of every single species. The story makes no sense.

For God, nothing is impossible!

Except vanquishing death and illness.
Except restoring beheaded people.
Except making human #2 out of dirt as well.
Except entering a public school system that forbids administration-led prayer.

How does someone walk into a dark room and offer light to anyone?

Jesus told us to shine our lights. Do you disagree with him that we have our own?

You are an atheist. If a Christian asks them, I will happily answer.

There are Christian non-creationists. Your turn.

If Jesus and other Bible writers can refer to the man by name, then he is as real to me as Jesus is. If you don't want to believe then....don't.

If Jesus quoted C-3PO would you claim Star Wars is real?

Faith is a requirement for all Christians

Faith in what? Ignorance? Avoidance? A book? Several books? Their authors? Their cultural biases?

.if we had absolute evidence for all we believe then faith would not be necessary

But we'd have evidence. It wouldn't be a guessing game anymore, exploited by people who nitpick bad logic.

When the Bible writers were inspired to record their contributions to scripture, everything they wrote was "beneficial for teaching for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16)

All humans are sinners and liars and such. Humans wrote this passage. Now what?

The jury is all those who claim to be Bible believing Christians.

Funny, I thought a Christian should believe in God, not a book. I'm pretty sure idolatry is frowned upon. True, that comes from the bible, which is filled to overflowing with hypocrisy about nearly all "thou shalt not"'s but, whatever.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

That is a stupid article.

ONE, - they would have had to house more than the "estimated 35,000," and even the doubled 70,000.

Two, - it tells us this doubled number is for the "pairs" the Bible says went in. Apparently they missed the part about edible animals, sevens, etc.

Three, - it tells us this estimate is by total interior mass. "Using the density of water and Archimedes' principle of buoyancy, they calculated the total mass the ark could contain without sinking." In other words squished to a mushy dead mass, one on top of the other to the top of the supposed Ark space. Thus not alive, no moving room, poop room, food room, people room, etc.

Also, these "physics students" should have known that any boat filled to the top like that, - would roll-over with the first wave. Overloaded boats roll-over and sink all the time. Not that it would matter in this Ark case, as all it would be holding would be a squished bloody dead mass.

*

"Ample Carrying Capacity. The passenger list of the ark was quite impressive. Besides Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives, living creatures “of every sort of flesh, two of each,” were to be taken aboard. “Male and female they will be. Of the flying creatures according to their kinds and of the domestic animals according to their kinds, of all moving animals of the ground according to their kinds, two of each will go in there to you to preserve them alive.” Of the clean beasts and fowls, seven of each kind were to be taken. A great quantity and variety of food for all these creatures, to last for more than a year, also had to be stowed away.—Ge 6:18-21; 7:2, 3.

The “kinds” of animals selected had reference to the clear-cut and unalterable boundaries or limits set by the Creator, within which boundaries creatures are capable of breeding “according to their kinds.” It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah.

These estimates may seem too restrictive to some, especially since such sources as The Encyclopedia Americana indicate that there are upwards of 1,300,000 species of animals. (1977, Vol. 1, pp. 859-873) However, over 60 percent of these are insects. Breaking these figures down further, of the 24,000 amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals, 10,000 are birds, 9,000 are reptiles and amphibians, many of which could have survived outside the ark, and only 5,000 are mammals, including whales and porpoises, which would have also remained outside the ark. Other researchers estimate that there are only about 290 species of land mammals larger than sheep and about 1,360 smaller than rats. (The Deluge Story in Stone, by B. C. Nelson, 1949, p. 156; The Flood in the Light of the Bible, Geology, and Archaeology, by A. M. Rehwinkel, 1957, p. 69) So, even if estimates are based on these expanded figures, the ark could easily have accommodated a pair of all these animals.

Five months after the Deluge began, “the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat,” not likely, however, atop the uppermost peak (nearly 5,165 m; 16,950 ft), but on suitable terrain where everyone aboard lived comfortably for some months more. Finally, after a year and ten days from the time the Deluge began, the door again was opened and all aboard disembarked.—Ge 7:11; 8:4, 14."


-- Excerpt taken from Ark — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

"a squished bloody dead mass"???

Since we are told this Flood had a Divine origin, it always amazes me how skeptics reason that God apparently didn't exhibit any control and protection of the Ark & its contents during the Flood.

 

[Deeje]

There are Christian non-creationists. Your turn.

No such thing. There are those who call themselves Christians who wouldn't have a clue what they believe and don't care anyway.

But we'd have evidence. It wouldn't be a guessing game anymore, exploited by people who nitpick bad logic.

Evidence is overrated IMO. It can be grossly misinterpreted. Faith takes more courage. It shows God what we are made of. (Hebrews 11:1)

All humans are sinners and liars and such. Humans wrote this passage. Now what?

Human secretaries wrote what God inspired them to write. You don't have to believe it......simple.

Funny, I thought a Christian should believe in God, not a book

Is there a reason why we can't believe in both? I never thought it was an "either/or" scenario. God wrote instructions for the human race knowing that we are lousy at Chinese whispers. He preserves the writings down through thousands of years of time, despite many attempts by his enemies (and even the church itself) to keep it out of the hands of the people or to eliminate it from existence...and yet it is still here, teaching those who want to be taught by it. Go figure.

 

[QuestioningMind]

"Ample Carrying Capacity. The passenger list of the ark was quite impressive. Besides Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives, living creatures “of every sort of flesh, two of each,” were to be taken aboard. “Male and female they will be. Of the flying creatures according to their kinds and of the domestic animals according to their kinds, of all moving animals of the ground according to their kinds, two of each will go in there to you to preserve them alive.” Of the clean beasts and fowls, seven of each kind were to be taken. A great quantity and variety of food for all these creatures, to last for more than a year, also had to be stowed away.—Ge 6:18-21; 7:2, 3.

The “kinds” of animals selected had reference to the clear-cut and unalterable boundaries or limits set by the Creator, within which boundaries creatures are capable of breeding “according to their kinds.” It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah.

These estimates may seem too restrictive to some, especially since such sources as The Encyclopedia Americana indicate that there are upwards of 1,300,000 species of animals. (1977, Vol. 1, pp. 859-873) However, over 60 percent of these are insects. Breaking these figures down further, of the 24,000 amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals, 10,000 are birds, 9,000 are reptiles and amphibians, many of which could have survived outside the ark, and only 5,000 are mammals, including whales and porpoises, which would have also remained outside the ark. Other researchers estimate that there are only about 290 species of land mammals larger than sheep and about 1,360 smaller than rats. (The Deluge Story in Stone, by B. C. Nelson, 1949, p. 156; The Flood in the Light of the Bible, Geology, and Archaeology, by A. M. Rehwinkel, 1957, p. 69) So, even if estimates are based on these expanded figures, the ark could easily have accommodated a pair of all these animals.

Five months after the Deluge began, “the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat,” not likely, however, atop the uppermost peak (nearly 5,165 m; 16,950 ft), but on suitable terrain where everyone aboard lived comfortably for some months more. Finally, after a year and ten days from the time the Deluge began, the door again was opened and all aboard disembarked.—Ge 7:11; 8:4, 14."


-- Excerpt taken from Ark — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

"a squished bloody dead mass"???

Since we are told this Flood had a Divine origin, it always amazes me how skeptics reason that God apparently didn't exhibit any control and protection of the Ark & its contents during the Flood.

What a silly story. Why the heck did this all -powerful God force Noah to spend months wasting his time and effort building a huge boat big enough to hold a pair of every animal on the planet? This is the exact same God who originally snapped his metaphorical fingers and created every single animal on the planet in a fraction of a single day. Why didn't he have Noah just build a boat big enough to hold him and his family and once the water receded just snap his metaphorical fingers again and create a whole new batch of animals? It's a question that no one has been able to answer for me since I first started asking it when I was 7 or 8 years old.

 

[Deeje]

What a silly story. Why the heck did this all -powerful God force Noah to spend months wasting his time and effort building a huge boat big enough to hold a pair of every animal on the planet? This is the exact same God who originally snapped his metaphorical fingers and created every single animal on the planet in a fraction of a single day. Why didn't he have Noah just build a boat big enough to hold him and his family and once the water receded just snap his metaphorical fingers again and create a whole new batch of animals? It's a question that no one has been able to answer for me since I first started asking it when I was 7 or 8 years old.

Post #169 answers many of your questions. Perhaps you closed your mind when you were 7 or 8 years old and never opened it again? Closed mindedness never gets to the bottom of anything. Opening our minds to possibilities that we may have dismissed decades ago, on further investigation may enlighten us about many things. You should try it.

Creation was not done with a snap of anyone's fingers. It was a slow and very deliberate process taking thousands if not millions of years. The earth itself is perhaps billions of years old. Genesis allows for this. Creation is not as cut and dried as many assume.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Post #169 answers many of your questions. Perhaps you closed your mind when you were 7 or 8 years old and never opened it again? Closed mindedness never gets to the bottom of anything. Opening our minds to possibilities that we may have dismissed decades ago, on further investigation may enlighten us about many things. You should try it.

Creation was not done with a snap of anyone's fingers. It was a slow and very deliberate process taking thousands if not millions of years. The earth itself is perhaps billions of years old. Genesis allows for this. Creation is not as cut and dried as many assume.

If one has an open mind and investigates this myth it soon becomes obvious that it never happened. You appear to be describing yourself when you talk about people having a close mind.

Are you curious to learn how we know that there was no flood? Or is your mind closed?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

From your first source:
"assuming it was properly constructed—could have supported the mass of 70,000 animals."
That is a huge assumption. There is no way to make a wooden vehicle that large that is "properly constructed". Second 70,000 animals is nowhere near enough. There are millions of species, worse yet there are still problems that refute that claim. Google search the concept of "population bottlenecks" to start. Just because an object would float for a very short period of time does not make it seaworthy.

In Bible speak, 'so to speak', it speaks of ' kinds ' meaning that there is variety within the species.
The variety would Not be necessary, but just a representation within each ' kind '.

I saw a TV documentary using a bathtub with a miniature exact reproduction of the Ark.
No matter how much the water was churned and whipped up they could Not topple the Ark.
Also, since all the Ark had to do was float it did Not have to be seaworthy for steering to go anywhere.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What a silly story. Why the heck did this all -powerful God force Noah to spend months wasting his time and effort building a huge boat big enough to hold a pair of every animal on the planet? This is the exact same God who originally snapped his metaphorical fingers and created every single animal on the planet in a fraction of a single day. Why didn't he have Noah just build a boat big enough to hold him and his family and once the water receded just snap his metaphorical fingers again and create a whole new batch of animals? It's a question that no one has been able to answer for me since I first started asking it when I was 7 or 8 years old.

Yipes, Noah & sons spend Not months but many 'decades' building that Ark. ( could easily have been 50 'years' )
There was No need to to create a who new batch of animals Nor new humans.
God purpose of Genesis 1:28 is that we all be descendants from father Adam and mother Eve.
No need for God to change his purpose, but to protect the righteous on Earth.
Not every animal pair, but pairs within the animal ' kinds ' so such variety at that time would Not be necessary.
The Bible does Not say how long each creative day was, nor does it say if each of the creative days were of the same length of time, or differing lengths of time. The word ' day ' in Scripture has shades of meaning.
For example: all the creative days are summed up by the word ' day ' at Genesis 2:4.