For Parents: If God Told You To...

[Nooj]

i am so happy that many here have read kierkegaard. he is one of my favourite authors.

 

[rusra02]

Aren't those David's words ( traditionally ) ?
And wasn't David a man?

Yes, and yes. But David explains: "The spirit of Jehovah it was that spoke by me, and his word was upon my tongue." I believe that as he did with other men, Jehovah used David as a scribe or secretary to record portions of God's Word. Jesus acknowledged that David was thus inspired by God. (Matthew 22:43-45)

​

​

 

[rusra02]

They are horrible parents and horrible human beings. And any military that conscripts peoples against their will is horrible. So what's your point?



Don't you think it's a bit arrogant to make such presumptions regarding god?

"When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman's husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine." -Exodus 21:22

If the bible god saw a fetus as a person, then wouldn't the punishment be death rather than a fine?


And your point is?

In response to the highlighted quote, you neglected to complete the quote from Exodus: "But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul." (Exodus 21:23) Rather than miscarriage, Exodus 21:22 states: "And in case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him and he must give it through the justices." (NWT)

​

​

 

[rusra02]

Neither Adam nor Eve had any knowledge right and wrong, if you have no knowledge of wrong you cannot commit wrong. I simply can't understand how the defenders of the genesis story don't get it.

Adam and Eve knew it was wrong to eat of the tree God had commanded them not to eat from. Eve repeated God's command to the serpent (Satan) showing she knew God had forbidden this. Their disobedience was actually a claim for moral independence, to decide for themselves what was good or evil, the same claim made today by most people.

Of course he was responsible, he put the tree there, he put the snake there, he denied them the knowledge of right and wrong. :sorry1: but if you believe the story, then god is to blame.

Reasoning that way, a person who owns a car and a shovel is responsible if someone steals the car by smashing the window with the shovel to gain entry. God did not cause any of the parties to this sin (Adam, Eve, or Satan) to go contrary to his law. This was their decision and their guilt, not God's. Since God told them right from wrong, he clearly did not deny them that knowledge.

So at what time in this omniscient god's plan did he change his plan, because Adam and Eve allegedly did the wrong thing thus requiring the sacrifice of Jesus?

Don't you get it that talking about love has absolutely nothing to do with love unless you actually demonstrate that love?

I believe Jehovah could and did what was necessary after Adam's sin to undue the harm our first parents and Satan caused. Upon sentencing Satan for his evil rebellion, God uttered the first recorded prophesy that would give hope to Adam's offspring. (Genesis 3:15).

 

[rusra02]

Did Adam already have free will before eating the fruit?

He obviously did, since he chose deliberately to disobey God, as did Eve.

 

[helpmeplease]

Adam and Eve knew it was wrong to eat of the tree God had commanded them not to eat from. Eve repeated God's command to the serpent (Satan) showing she knew God had forbidden this. Their disobedience was actually a claim for moral independence, to decide for themselves what was good or evil, the same claim made today by most people.

A new born baby has no knowledge of right and wrong, Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of right and wrong, until they did that they had no idea of right and wrong. You must twist yourself into a multidimensional pretzel to be able to deny this knowledge to yourself.

Reasoning that way, a person who owns a car and a shovel is responsible if someone steals the car by smashing the window with the shovel to gain entry. God did not cause any of the parties to this sin (Adam, Eve, or Satan) to go contrary to his law. This was their decision and their guilt, not God's. Since God told them right from wrong, he clearly did not deny them that knowledge.

Oh how terribly sad. You are absolutely correct if the thief never new right from wrong, unfortunately for your analogy there aren't many of those around. Especially compared to the time we are discussing when the entire population was in that position. God never told them right from wrong, pretzel.:sorry1:

I believe Jehovah could and did what was necessary after Adam's sin to undue the harm our first parents and Satan caused. Upon sentencing Satan for his evil rebellion, God uttered the first recorded prophesy that would give hope to Adam's offspring. (Genesis 3:15).

So you believe that your omniscient god needed to change his plan and sacrifice Jesus because of A&E? What exactly happened to his omniscience?:thud:

 

[rusra02]

A new born baby has no knowledge of right and wrong, Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of right and wrong, until they did that they had no idea of right and wrong. You must twist yourself into a multidimensional pretzel to be able to deny this knowledge to yourself.


Oh how terribly sad. You are absolutely correct if the thief never new right from wrong, unfortunately for your analogy there aren't many of those around. Especially compared to the time we are discussing when the entire population was in that position. God never told them right from wrong, pretzel.:sorry1:

So you believe that your omniscient god needed to change his plan and sacrifice Jesus because of A&E? What exactly happened to his omniscience?:thud:

I will respond to your last claim that God is omniscient. God has the ability to foretell the future, but has control over when he uses that ability. God does not choose to foreknow every event that will ever occur before it happens. Rather, He exercises selective foreknowledge when his purposes require it. For example, God apparently did not foreknow whether Abraham would obey his command to sacrifice Isaac. As Genesis 22:12 states "Now I do know that you are God-fearing in that you have not withheld your son, your only one, from me." Jehovah sent 2 angels to investigate the conduct of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Genesis 18:20,21)
Similarly, God did not foreknow that Adam and Eve would rebel against him. When it happened, God was fully capable of handling the situation according to his purpose.

​

​

​

​

​

​

 

[Me Myself]

I will respond to your last claim that God is omniscient. God has the ability to foretell the future, but has control over when he uses that ability. God does not choose to foreknow every event that will ever occur before it happens.

Then he is not truly omniscient, he is just omnipotent: he has the power to be omniscient, but he chooses not to.