For trinity believers: Does your world come unravelled if Jesus is not God,but ONLY Gods Son?

[seekandfind]

I'm not teaching universalism as Matt 25 shows that some do not get into the Kingdom.
But when it comes to functions you are asking me to guess at what the Kingdom of God will be like.
I'll leave that to the Watch Tower.

How will you know when those Christians are ruling if you cant figure out who the "faithful and discreet slave" is while the slave is given way before those Christians rule.

When Jesus appoints this slave and then a Christian not only ignores them but aslo judges it as not from God what happens to that Christian? I would say ignoring God constitutes not doing his will.

 

[Brian2]

How will you know when those Christians are ruling if you cant figure out who the "faithful and discreet slave" is while the slave is given way before those Christians rule.

When Jesus appoints this slave and then a Christian not only ignores them but aslo judges it as not from God what happens to that Christian? I would say ignoring God constitutes not doing his will.

I'm pretty sure everything will be made clear when Jesus returns.

 

[SDavis]

Right , even Satan is a Son of God. But neither are the Almighty God.

You are misrepresenting scripture with your explaination here: "David said *the Lord* (our Father) said unto *my Lord* (Yahweh /Jesus) sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool"

It should show "David said, 'The *LORD*(YHWH: the proper noun of the God of Israel -not AVI: father) said unto *my lord*(adonai: "lord, master"- not YHWH: Gods name) sit at my right hand...'"

You were either purposely misleading or didnt know what you were doing here. Ill hope for the latter.

I am not misleading anyone but you are or maybe you just don't know!

Jesus said before Abraham was I Am _ John said to Jesus before he ascended my Lord and my God _ Isaiah said and he shall be called Almighty God / heavenly Father. Guessing you already know where to find it

And if you knew what the Hebrew word Adonai means - it is another word used instead of of the Lord's name Yahweh, because they refused to use his name, in fear of using his name in vain.

Yahweh | YHWH, Adonai, Elohim, Meaning, & Facts | Britannica

Yahweh, name for the God of the Israelites, representing the biblical pronunciation of ‘YHWH,’ the Hebrew name revealed to Moses in the book of Exodus. The name YHWH, consisting of the sequence of consonants Yod, Heh, Waw, and Heh, is known as the tetragrammaton.

www.britannica.com

O.T. Names of God - Study Resources

The Names of God in the Old Testament include El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty); El Elyon (The Most High God); Adonai (Lord, Master); Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah)...

www.blueletterbible.org

Hebrew Name for God - Adonai

The Hebrew Name for God - Adonai, Lord.

www.hebrew4christians.com

Definition of ADONAI

—used in place of YHWH as a name of the God of the Hebrews during prayer recitation… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[seekandfind]

I'm pretty sure everything will be made clear when Jesus returns.

Too late then. The slave gives the food until Jesus returns. When he returns you should have already been listening to the faithful and discreet slave.
“Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings." Mt 24:45-47

 

[seekandfind]

I am not misleading anyone but you are or maybe you just don't know!

Jesus said before Abraham was I Am _ John said to Jesus before he ascended my Lord and my God _ Isaiah said and he shall be called Almighty God / heavenly Father. Guessing you already know where to find it

And if you knew what the Hebrew word Adonai means - it is another word used instead of of the Lord's name Yahweh, because they refused to use his name, in fear of using his name in vain.

"I think therefore I AM." Is that statement claiming Godship or claiming existance? Jesus was saying "before Abraham I existed".

Isaiah NEVER claimed the Messiah was ALMIGHTY....if you have a humble and honest heart when you find that to be true youll start learning from scripture what it says instead of mans trinity doctrine.

Adonai. You dont seem to understand. Yes, when SPEAKING, the Jews wouldnt say Yhwh. We are discussing what was WRITTEN in Gods word. "Yhwh" was written in the bible. The English bibles were not produced by the Jews(they may have some)...it was common age men that removed the name which Yhwh never said to do. Only Satan would do such a thing and his followers would cheer it on.

Psalm 110:1 Lexicon: A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

 

[seekandfind]

"I think therefore I AM." Is that statement claiming Godship or claiming existance? Jesus was saying "before Abraham I existed".

Isaiah NEVER claimed the Messiah was ALMIGHTY....if you have a humble and honest heart when you find that to be true youll start learning from scripture what it says instead of mans trinity doctrine.

Adonai. You dont seem to understand. Yes, when SPEAKING, the Jews wouldnt say Yhwh. We are discussing what was WRITTEN in Gods word. "Yhwh" was written in the bible. The English bibles were not produced by the Jews(they may have some)...it was common age men that removed the name which Yhwh never said to do. Only Satan would do such a thing and his followers would cheer it on.

Psalm 110:1 Lexicon: A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

And if you knew what the Hebrew word Adonai means - it is another word used instead of of the Lord's name Yahweh, because they refused to use his name, in fear of using his name in vain.

I messed up posting the link.... please click on the yellow verse of Ps 110 to go to the link that clearly shows Yhwh in the scripture in its right place.

 

[SDavis]

I messed up posting the link.... please click on the yellow verse of Ps 110 to go to the link that clearly shows Yhwh in the scripture in its right place.

Isaiah 9:6 Unto us a child is born unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulders: and his NAME shall be called wonderful, counselor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, the Prince of Peace.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 9:6 - King James Version

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

www.biblegateway.com

So what you're saying is "the Lord" *(who is Yahweh)* said unto "my Lord" *(who is Adonai, who is also Yahweh)* means Yahweh said to Yahweh. Adonai is just another name for Yahweh as I gave you reference to and there are many other references out there concerning how and why the Hebrews stop using the name Yahweh and begin to call him Adonai ...... and if you look at all of the usages of the word you will see Strong's concordance reference to God, the Lord God, Lord of the whole Earth, Lord of Lords Yahweh

https://godrules.net/library/strongs2a/heb113.htm

But you choose to believe whatever you choose ma'am, if you are a ma'am, that's your business.

How can you say - I don't understand where is your mind when you to we are discussing God's words then say, the Jews don't use Yahweh, then refer to the English Bible. The English bibles are translations from the Hebrew / Jewish scrolls, which are the word of God.

Without the Hebrews grows there would be no English Bible.

Good by nothing else to say to you ma'am

 

[Muffled]

Who is this?

2Cor 4:4
"among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers..."

I believe that would not be a lesser God but simply one of the millions of gods that are not God.

 

[SDavis]

I believe it is referring to Lucifer - King James version says the god of this world has blinded the eyes of those who would believe. Who has blinded the eyes of the unbelievers other than the devil. Scripture does say he's our accuser and he roams the Earth to and fro seeking whom he may devour. I am curious who is the lesser gods, the sons? And who is the millions of Gods, like those of different cultures? I wonder just how wrong did the original interpreters get it. Melchizedek was a Canaanite -- El / Elohim was God of the Canaanites before he chose Abraham and became Yahweh with Moses -- Jerusalem was Salem which was a Canaanite City.

Let there be God: How Yahweh became "God Almighty"

In the Canaan religion, Yahweh was a lesser god, who was assigned the land of Israel. Here's how he became "God Almighty."

bigthink.com

 

[seekandfind]

Isaiah 9:6 Unto us a child is born unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulders: and his NAME shall be called wonderful, counselor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, the Prince of Peace.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 9:6 - King James Version

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

www.biblegateway.com

Exactly! Hes not Almighty as you claimed. Trust Gods Word.

So what you're saying is "the Lord" *(who is Yahweh)* said unto "my Lord" *(who is Adonai, who is also Yahweh)* means Yahweh said to Yahweh. Adonai is just another name for Yahweh as I gave you reference to and there are many other references out there concerning how and why the Hebrews stop using the name Yahweh and begin to call him Adonai ...... and if you look at all of the usages of the word you will see Strong's concordance reference to God, the Lord God, Lord of the whole Earth, Lord of Lords Yahweh

No thats not what im saying- thats what you are incorrectly saying. Adonai means "lord"- is not a name, its a title. I gave you the link to Ps 110:1 where it uses Yhwh. You move it in your comment, which makes it not true.

It should say "Yhwh said to adonai" - not "adonai said to Yhwh"

.How can you say - I don't understand where is your mind when you to we are discussing God's words then say, the Jews don't use Yahweh, then refer to the English Bible. The English bibles are translations from the Hebrew / Jewish scrolls, which are the word of God.

Without the Hebrews grows there would be no English Bible.

Good by nothing else to say to you ma'am

I was saying because of mans traditions Jews dont use Yhwh anymore. You can still look at the Hebrew scrolls- Yhwh is there ...as you falsly claimed they wouldnt use it. Therefore the English versions should not have removed it.

 

[seekandfind]

I believe that would not be a lesser God but simply one of the millions of gods that are not God.

If its not "lesser" , then its equal to God or greater than God?

 

[cataway]

"lesser" bothers me . the relationship between the ''GOD'' and all the rest of the spirit creation could be likened to the owner/ chairmen of the bord. all the rest of the company, they do what the owner/chairmen of the bord says to do. there is no discussion no arguments . the big guy says we are going to do it this way and that's the way it gets done.

 

[TiggerII]

Is. 9:6 may be honestly translated in several ways.

The Leeser Bible also translates it:

“Wonderful, counsellor of the mighty God, of the everlasting Father, the prince of peace”

Also, An American Translation (by trinitarians Smith and Goodspeed) says:
"Wonderful counselor is God almighty, Father forever, Prince of peace."

From the Is. 9:6 footnote in the trinity-supporting NET Bible:

".... some have suggested that one to three of the titles that follow ['called'] refer to God, not the king. For example, the traditional punctuation of the Hebrew text suggests the translation, 'and the Extraordinary Strategist, the Mighty God calls his name, "Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."'"

And,

‘Wonderful in counsel is God the mighty, the Everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace’ (Hertz 1968).

Of course it could also be honestly translated: "Wonderful Counselor and Mighty God is the Eternal Father of the Prince of Peace."

And the Tanakh by the JPS, 1985, translates it:
[1] “The Mighty God is planning grace;
[2] The Eternal Father [is] a peaceable ruler.”

This latter translation seems particularly appropriate since it is in the form of a parallelism. Not only was the previous symbolic personal name introduced by Isaiah at Is. 8:1 a parallelism (“Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz” means [a]“quick to the plunder; swift to the spoil” - NIV footnote) but the very introduction to this Messianic name at Is. 9:6 is itself a parallelism: [a]“For unto us a child is born; unto us a son is given.” It would, therefore, be appropriate to find that this name, too, was in the form of a parallelism as translated by the Tanakh above.

So it is clear, even to a few trinitarian scholars who dare admit it, that Is. 9:6 does not necessarily imply that Jesus is Jehovah God.


For an honest personal study concerning this see:

Isa. 9:6 "Mighty God, Eternal Father"

 

[seekandfind]

"lesser" bothers me . the relationship between the ''GOD'' and all the rest of the spirit creation could be likened to the owner/ chairmen of the bord. all the rest of the company, they do what the owner/chairmen of the bord says to do. there is no discussion no arguments . the big guy says we are going to do it this way and that's the way it gets done.

Your illustration suggests the "other gods" do as YHWH says, yet thats not what the bible teaches us. If you want to believe that, its your choice, but if we are talking about the holy scriprures it shows there are many in the spirit creation that rebel Gods authority as chairman- not obey "with no arguments".

"And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." -REV 12:7-9


Satan and the demons(rebellious angels) clearly dont do what God wants.
What God wants:
"Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance" - 2 Peter 3:9

"For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up the works of the Devil." -1 John 3:8




What Satan wants:
"Keep your senses, be watchful! Your adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone." - 1 Peter 5:8

"The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning" -1 John 3:8

"Then the Devil took him along into the holy city, and he stationed him on the battlement of the temple 6 and said to him: “If you are a son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written: ‘He will give his angels a command concerning you,’ and, ‘They will carry you on their hands, so that you may not strike your foot against a stone.’” Mt 4:5

 

[seekandfind]

"lesser" bothers me . the relationship between the ''GOD'' and all the rest of the spirit creation could be likened to the owner/ chairmen of the bord. all the rest of the company, they do what the owner/chairmen of the bord says to do. there is no discussion no arguments . the big guy says we are going to do it this way and that's the way it gets done.

Your illustration suggests the "other gods" do as YHWH says, yet thats not what the bible teaches us. If you want to believe that, its your choice, but if we are talking about the holy scriprures it shows there are many in the spirit creation that rebel Gods authority as chairman- not obey "with no arguments".

"And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." -REV 12:7-9


Satan and the demons(rebellious angels) clearly dont do what God wants.
What God wants:
"Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance" - 2 Peter 3:9

"For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up the works of the Devil." -1 John 3:8




What Satan wants:
"Keep your senses, be watchful! Your adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone." - 1 Peter 5:8

"The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning" -1 John 3:8

"Then the Devil took him along into the holy city, and he stationed him on the battlement of the temple 6 and said to him: “If you are a son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written: ‘He will give his angels a command concerning you,’ and, ‘They will carry you on their hands, so that you may not strike your foot against a stone.’” Mt 4:5

 

[seekandfind]

"lesser" bothers me . the relationship between the ''GOD'' and all the rest of the spirit creation could be likened to the owner/ chairmen of the bord. all the rest of the company, they do what the owner/chairmen of the bord says to do. there is no discussion no arguments . the big guy says we are going to do it this way and that's the way it gets done.

Your illustration suggests the "other gods" do as YHWH says, yet thats not what the bible teaches us. If you want to believe that, its your choice, but if we are talking about the holy scriprures it shows there are many in the spirit creation that rebel Gods authority as chairman- not obey "with no arguments".

"And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." -REV 12:7-9


Satan and the demons(rebellious angels) clearly dont do what God wants.
What God wants:
"Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance" - 2 Peter 3:9

"For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up the works of the Devil." -1 John 3:8




What Satan wants:
"Keep your senses, be watchful! Your adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone." - 1 Peter 5:8

"The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning" -1 John 3:8

"Then the Devil took him along into the holy city, and he stationed him on the battlement of the temple 6 and said to him: “If you are a son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written: ‘He will give his angels a command concerning you,’ and, ‘They will carry you on their hands, so that you may not strike your foot against a stone.’” Mt 4:5

 

[cataway]

Your illustration suggests the "other gods" do as YHWH says, yet thats not what the bible teaches us. If you want to believe that, its your choice, but if we are talking about the holy scriprures it shows there are many in the spirit creation that rebel Gods authority as chairman- not obey "with no arguments".

"And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." -REV 12:7-9


Satan and the demons(rebellious angels) clearly dont do what God wants.
What God wants:
"Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance" - 2 Peter 3:9

"For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up the works of the Devil." -1 John 3:8




What Satan wants:
"Keep your senses, be watchful! Your adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone." - 1 Peter 5:8

"The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning" -1 John 3:8

"Then the Devil took him along into the holy city, and he stationed him on the battlement of the temple 6 and said to him: “If you are a son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written: ‘He will give his angels a command concerning you,’ and, ‘They will carry you on their hands, so that you may not strike your foot against a stone.’” Mt 4:5

said nothing about other gods

 

[seekandfind]

said nothing about other gods

Ok. Youre illustration still isnt what the bible teaches.

 

[cataway]

Ok. Youre illustration still isnt what the bible teaches.

you dont like the illustration ?? come up with your own

 

[seekandfind]

you dont like the illustration ?? come up with your own

I showed you the bibles illustrations.