Forced Drugging

[columbus]

You don't know of any psychotropic drug that cures or corrects a biological disorder, do you?

You keep asking this. When people point out that they do know of circumstances where the drugs helped enormously you just blow us off.
I do know of people that were, at least temporarily, corrected. And were happy about it.
Tom

 

[Nous]

You keep asking this. When people point out that they do know of circumstances where the drugs helped enormously you just blow us off.

Do you not understand that what you just said is not an answer to the question I asked?

 

[columbus]

Do you not understand that what you just said is not an answer to the question I asked?

Do you not understand that you have gotten a few answers to the question and blown them all off?
Tom

 

[buddhist]

So you're saying that there's no such thing as forced drugging? You're saying that everyone has secretly, unknowingly agreed and contracted to be given a drug to which s/he is saying,"No, no, no, no"?

No, I'm not saying that there aren't real cases of forced drugging. I am saying that in many instances where there might be accusations of involuntary force, prior consent can probably be found somewhere in their past.

 

[Nous]

Do you not understand that you have gotten a few answers to the question and blown them all off?

I didn't see your answer to this question: You don't know of any psychotropic drug that cures or corrects a biological disorder, do you?

Quote your answer.

 

[Nous]

No, I'm not saying that there aren't real cases of forced drugging. I am saying that in many instances where there might be accusations of involuntary force, prior consent can probably be found somewhere in their past.

Let's not concern ourselves with such an unlikely hypothetical. What about those cases where it is "real forced drugging"? When, if ever, is it right for the government to engage in this?

 

[buddhist]

Let's not concern ourselves with such an unlikely hypothetical. What about those cases where it is "real forced drugging"? When, if ever, is it right for the government to engage in this?

Without consent - never.

Legitimate government in a free society never gets involved in "prevention". It only deals with justice - after the fact (after a crime has been committed).

 

[columbus]

I didn't see your answer to this question: You don't know of any psychotropic drug that cures or corrects a biological disorder, do you?

Quote your answer.

Posts #12 and #17.
Tom

 

[Nous]

Without consent - never.

Legitimate government in a free society never gets involved in "prevention". It only deals with justice - after the fact (after a crime has been committed).

Of course, I agree. The unfortunate thing is that the Court has carved out a circumstance where lots of people, even who have never committed a violent crime, can be forcibly drugged ostensibly in order to further a governmental interest in bringing competent people to trial.

 

[Nous]

Posts #12 and #17.

The question of mine that you quoted in #12 is whether you know of any psychoactive drug that has been shown to make an incompetent person competent. And I repeat my response to your reply to that question: Obviously one cannot conclude from an anecdote that a psychoactive drug has been shown to make an incompetent person competent.

If there were a drug that makes incompetent people competent, why not just give it to all the people with Alzheimer's who can't tell you their own names?

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

and here I was talking about parents making their children get shots.....

psychotropic drug..not happening

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

How do you determine that someone "needs" a psychotropic drug?

The suicide rate in the US has certainly not declined with the increased consumption of psychiatric drugs. Just the contrary. Drugs referred to as "antidepressants" carry a Black Box warning of the drug causing an increased risk of suicidality.

true try not to administer suicide, doctors... their data should show it.

 

[Wirey]

Is that supposed to be a coherent answer to the OP question?

What are the criteria by which to determine whether or not anyone is "crazy enough to need" a forcibly administered psychotropic drug?

You don't know of any psychotropic drug that cures or corrects any biological disorder, do you?

With my absence of formal medical training, I'll grant you that I am not a subject matter expert like you. However, I stand by the notion that if someone is so incapacitated mentally that they are unable to care for themselves, it is the responsibility of a caring and just society to help them, even if it means doing something that the person is incapable of understanding is in their best interests while it may be against their will. Why, do you believe we should leave the mentally infirm to kill themselves and others rather than help them?

 

[Wirey]

Do you not understand that you have gotten a few answers to the question and blown them all off?
Tom

He only speaks Saucerian, not Rationalian.

 

[Lyndon]

Without medication I am an incompetent person and would require hospitalization, with medication I function normally without problems, so I think I know what I am talking about, and you Nous are spouting off garbage.

 

[Wirey]

Without medication I am an incompetent person and would require hospitalization, with medication I function normally without problems, so I think I know what I am talking about, and you Nous are spouting off garbage.

I keep telling you, Twinkies aren't medication! And give back my nachos!

 

[columbus]

If there were a drug that makes incompetent people competent, why not just give it to all the people with Alzheimer's who can't tell you their own names?

Because there is no known drug that helps Alzheimer's. My friend Randy was hugely helped by whatever it was he took. He didn't have Alzheimer's, it was something that responded (usually) to treatment.
Sometimes the meds didn't work so well, and the voices would tell him to flush his meds down the toilet.
At that point he really really didn't want them. Dose him up and he was always glad somebody did.
Which Randy gets to choose for both Randys? Medicated Randy was a lot happier and more functional.
Tom

 

[Wirey]

Because there is no known drug that helps Alzheimer's. My friend Randy was hugely helped by whatever it was he took. He didn't have Alzheimer's, it was something that responded (usually) to treatment.
Sometimes the meds didn't work so well, and the voices would tell him to flush his meds down the toilet.
At that point he really really didn't want them. Dose him up and he was always glad somebody did.
Which Randy gets to choose for both Randys? Medicated Randy was a lot happier and more functional.
Tom

I had a cousin who was similar, but wound up on the street and died when he was 33.

 

[columbus]

I had a cousin who was similar, but wound up on the street and died when he was 33.

Randy was similar. Closer to 40 when he died.

This was back in the 80s. Reagan and the Republicans had just slashed funding for mental health issues in the name of Freedom and fiscal responsibility. It was a long time before I grasped the connection between Randy and his problem and federal policies.
Tom

 

[dawny0826]

In your opinion, when, if ever, should the government (i.e., someone acting on behalf of the government) be allowed to forcibly administer a psychotropic drug to persons?

(“Forcibly” just means “contrary to a person's consent”.)

Never. And no people within a country should allow their government to assume this sort of control over their lives.

However, during a pandemic situation, I would not object to the government implementing quarantine or separation of those that were well or agreed to treatment and those who weren't or refused.