France rejects the far right

[Estro Felino]

Socialist is the opposite of capitalist and libertarian the opposite of authoritarian.
That's why I agree with @Revoltingest on liberty issues and disagree on economy issues.
(I'm also firmly in the lower left corner of the political compass.)

Yes...you side with banking élites?
Sag es mir.

 

[Copernicus]

But I think that socialists won the parliamentarian elections so the PM must necessarily be a socialist.
Not a PM from that elitist, lounge-loving, yacht-loving and caviar-loving Left... who lost the elections.
otherwise France becomes undemocratic....and its international credibility is reduced to zero.

The NPF is made up of diverse leftist groups that have some deep divisions. Macron himself was once a member of the Socialist Party in France, but that is only one small part of the NPF. The largest party in the NPF now is the France Unbowed party, which doesn't seem capable of reaching the compromises necessary to form a governing coalition. They react to others in pretty much the same way you do--by calling them names and expressing contempt. So they've pretty much burned down all the bridges that could make them a contender for leading a government. France simply does not have a good history when it comes to forming political alliances. They are too fractious. That may change because of the way this election turned out. There is hope that a coalition of centrist and moderate parties can join together, but most pundits seem to think that unlikely. The temporary solution may be for Macron to put together a government of unelected technocrats, but that would not really have the broad support of a government of elected officials. And it isn't even clear whether they have a legal basis for doing that kind of thing. I think that Italy, which is similarly fractious, may have been able to pull it off, but the French have little experience in that area.

 

[Revoltingest]

Socialist is the exact opposite of libertarian.
That's why I debate with @Revoltingest 24/7.

For them socialism is what they dream of,
ie, economic & social liberty. Problem is
that socialism has never turned out that
way in history.

 

[Estro Felino]

The NPF is made up of diverse leftist groups that have some deep divisions. Macron himself was once a member of the Socialist Party in France, but that is only one small part of the NPF. The largest party in the NPF now is the France Unbowed party, which doesn't seem capable of reaching the compromises necessary to form a governing coalition. They react to others in pretty much the same way you do--by calling them names and expressing contempt. So they've pretty much burned down all the bridges that could make them a contender for leading a government. France simply does not have a good history when it comes to forming political alliances. They are too fractious. That may change because of the way this election turned out. There is hope that a coalition of centrist and moderate parties can join together, but most pundits seem to think that unlikely. The temporary solution may be for Macron to put together a government of unelected technocrats, but that would not really have the broad support of a government of elected officials. And it isn't even clear whether they have a legal basis for doing that kind of thing. I think that Italy, which is similarly fractious, may have been able to pull it off, but the French have little experience in that area.

A coalition of lounge-loving leftists led by Rothschild Junior means to deface democracy, because in democracy the winners govern, and not those who have so few parliamentary seats.

 

[Estro Felino]

For them socialism is what they dream of,
ie, economic & social liberty. Problem is
that socialism has never turned out that
way in history.

There is the public interest that prevails, so there can never be economic freedom in socialism.

Example: a capitalist wants to possess an entire island to turn it into a big casino.
It turns out that island is a natural reserve.

 

[Shaul]

The NFP is an alliance, not a unified party. The National Rally party could also form a partnership with members of the independent right wing parties or even with some on the left. The actual situation is that the left, center and right are about equally divided and any coalition government formed will be precarious. The bottom line is that the National Rally didn't lose so much as Macron's Ensemble did.

 

[Revoltingest]

There is the public interest that prevails, so there can never be economic freedom in socialism.

Nor social freedom (looking at things empirically).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Socialist is the exact opposite of libertarian.
That's why I debate with @Revoltingest 24/7.

I debate with him a lot too except when it comes to individual liberty. On that we both agree your rights end where your neighbors nose begins.
But when it comes to the economy, well, he's a Capitalist and I'm a Socialist. Disagreements abound.
As for the political science side of this debate, I don't debate it with Rev anymore but libertarianism traditionally is a left wing position of granting liberties where rw conservatives traditionally deny it. Globally and in the field of political sciences libertarianism is not inherently related or attached to free market economies. Amd indeed a two dimension political compass has has the -x and x coordinates as economic coordinates and the -y and y as the social coordinates. This where I get @Revoltingest and I are in the Deep South.

 

[Revoltingest]

Globally and in the field of political sciences libertarianism is not inherently related or attached to free market economies.

Economic authoritarianism, eg, socialism has
empirically never co-existed with social liberty.
Theoretically, this makes sense because the
great power over the populace required for
socialism easily extends to social & religious
liberty.
Under capitalism, there is the possibility of
both social & economic liberty. This is borne
out empirically.
So libertarianism is compatible with capitalism,
but not socialism, even if not "inherently".

 

[England my lionheart]

France has joined with the UK in turning back the rising tide of right wing political power.

France’s left-wing parties projected to finish first in parliamentary elections, keeping far right at bay

I don’t see this as a victory for anyone,definitely not for France,who can govern?,imo it’s going to be a disaster and although the far right lost it also gained.

 

[Viker]

Economic authoritarianism, eg, socialism has
empirically never co-existed with social liberty.
Theoretically, this makes sense because the
great power over the populace required for
socialism easily extends to social & religious
liberty.
Under capitalism, there is the possibility of
both social & economic liberty. This is borne
out empirically.
So libertarianism is compatible with capitalism,
but not socialism, even if not "inherently".

I'm interested in everything Norwegian. I might move there.

Besides, not everything under capitalism has been peachy. In smaller less developed nations we've exploited how has our peachy capitalism allowed many of them social, economic and political freedom?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Economic authoritarianism, eg, socialism has
empirically never co-existed with social liberty.
Theoretically, this makes sense because the
great power over the populace required for
socialism easily extends to social & religious
liberty.
Under capitalism, there is the possibility of
both social & economic liberty. This is borne
out empirically.
So libertarianism is compatible with capitalism,
but not socialism, even if not "inherently".

As for the political science side of this debate, I don't debate it with Rev anymore

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm interested in everything Norwegian. I might move there.

Besides, not everything under capitalism has been peachy. In smaller less developed nations we've exploited how has our peachy capitalism allowed many of them social, economic and political freedom?

Capitalism has required extensive legal and ethical restrictions because without we get slavery and abject poverty for all but a few. And in reality I don't think any nation is really this or that but a mixed economy, especially modernized and industrialized and post-industrial nations.
And if you go to Norway, where do we stick the popsickle stick in you so we can pull you of the snow?

 

[Heyo]

Yes...you side with banking élites?
Sag es mir.

Are you also near dementia? We had that question, several times.

 

[Viker]

Capitalism has required extensive legal and ethical restrictions because without we get slavery and abject poverty for all but a few. And in reality I don't think any nation is really this or that but a mixed economy, especially modernized and industrialized and post-industrial nations.
And if you go to Norway, where do we stick the popsickle stick in you so we can pull you of the snow?

People don't realize how exceptional a life they live with regulations tying a leash to capitalism has been. So, capitalism looks like the "good guy". Take away the leash and it's just like everything else.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I do so wish everybody would get acquainted with the history of how we in "the first world" gained the greatest gift to humankind -- our individual liberty. From the Enlightenment, through great thinkers like Hobbes, Locke, Spinosa, Montesquieu, Mill, Voltaire, Rousseau, Diderot, d'Holbach, Adam Smith, Kant, Henry, Paine, de Tocqueville, Jefferson, Bentham, Hume --- and so many more.

Once you've studied the incredible journey to the realization that individual, ordinary human beings were capable of living their lives well on their own terms, you would never for an instant consider giving the hard right the keys to your liberty again.

 

[Copernicus]

A coalition of lounge-loving leftists led by Rothschild Junior means to deface democracy, because in democracy the winners govern, and not those who have so few parliamentary seats.

If the majority favors your "lounge-loving leftists led by Rothschild Junior" then that is how democracy works, no matter what you think the results should be. If one favors democratic elections, then one has to be prepared for disappointments, but not as prepared as one must be with alternative methods of forming governments.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm interested in everything Norwegian. I might move there.

Reports from there are that it's spendy.

Besides, not everything under capitalism has been peachy.

No system offers perfection.

In smaller less developed nations we've exploited how has our peachy capitalism allowed many of them social, economic and political freedom?

Capitalism is always attacked by detractors because
terrible things happen under it. But they ignore that
terrible things happen under socialism too.
The difference....
Capitalism has had some results better than any under
socialism. Just guarantees against awful results.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

People don't realize how exceptional a life they live with regulations tying a leash to capitalism has been. So, capitalism looks like the "good guy". Take away the leash and it's just like everything else.

Yup. It's why I believe had reforms continued in the USSR it could have worked out. Afterall, it wasn't that long ago when that sort of repression and oppression was norm throughout the world, and basically not too different from how Capitalism was in centuries past, and not that long ago such as the deadly violence that used to be a thing even in America between workers and the boss. Marx, for example, wrote in a world where Capitalism simply did not allow others to prosper. It took lots of labor wars and legislative wars to reign in capitalism just to get things to where we are today, and it's far from perfect or ideal.
Unfortunately even within the lifetimes of many we've grown blase about it. OSHA was only established 53 years ago and now we have states wanting to do away with break laws and relax child labor laws. And of course richies who never have to worry about it want to do away with minimum wage laws believing it lets everyone get paid their market value. No, that just means people working in food service, retail, hospitality and many entertainment positions who already can't afford to partake of their job services or purchase those goods definitely never will be able to afford where they work.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Reports from there are that it's spendy.

A higher quality of life isn't cheap like the facade of quality and cheapness we have in America.