I didn't say anything about the US government.
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Free Iran from the Islamic Republic!
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
I didn't say anything about the US government.
Because... ?
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Eventually, they almost certainly will. Without the USA’s help.
Because it seems to me an exercise at pointing fingers without suggesting how specifically Iran could be freed—at a time when the US government has been taken over by a party that is gripped by theocratic extremism and that may also be highly inclined to go to war with Iran and spark major regional destruction.
Methinks it's just another Muslim bash thread.
So you think further meddling in a sovereign nation's affairs against their will is the way to go? Name one time the US forcing a new government on another country has worked out and didn't result in the country collapsing into chaos and death.
We just need to stop propping up and shielding Israel for that to end, which will be soon as more young people have a say in things.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That would be a good thing. It's nice to see a population that can handle its government along with its own domestic issues without requiring aid or migration.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
I'm probably going to be a minority of one with this, but how about backing off the opposition to Iran? A tyrannical regime tends to be hardened by external opposition and simply oppresses its subjects more in the name of patriotism. That might give the Iranian people a more relaxed atmosphere in which to pursue the change they want.
I don't represent my government. My guess is that no one at RF represents their government, correct. We're all just individuals.
Zooming way, way out I think the three first order problems we as individuals need to work on are:
1 - Ecological Overshoot.
2 - Poorly regulated capitalism or "the worldwide oligarchy" if you prefer
3 - Islamism or "political Islam" if you prefer
For all three of these first order problems, the first step is education and awareness. This thread is a small step towards spreading awareness. We see throughout the world that citizens can make a difference, but it starts with awareness.
IMO, a key factor in the prospect of major regional destruction in the ME is Islamism. Not the only factor, but a key factor.
Attempts to deflect from that reality strike me as dishonest and dangerous.
Perhaps. But we also need to stop ignoring Islamism.
Islamists are oppressors and colonizers.
I think people who support the actions of their government on specific issues could fairly be said to be representing their government on that issue, or at least representing the same position as their government in that area. But I know you oppose theocracy and Trump, so I don't think you represent the theocratic leanings of the current GOP; my point was general rather than specific to you.
On a global scale, I don't think Islamism is powerful enough to be one of the three most pressing issues facing the world today. Not even close. I also find it to largely be a symptom of other issues—such as military interventionism, deteriorating socioeconomic conditions, and regional destabilization—rather than a stand-alone cause of those issues (although it has contributed to them in some significant ways).
I'm against all forms of theocracy and consider it to be a major problem in many parts of the world, but I think the risk of World War III, the risk of nuclear war, and the climate crisis, for example, are all far bigger problems than theocracy (be it Islamist or otherwise) on a global level at the moment.
People could disagree with each other on the scale, immediacy, and priority of certain issues without being dishonest.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
It's called helping to amend a wrong you did to another.
I appreciate your thoughtful reply.
Not surprisingly, we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this point. IMO Islamism is far older than the very real issues you just listed.
To take my last post further, I see at least three essential concerns we have to fight if we're to fight overshoot:
1 - We must fight all incursions against free speech
2 - We must fight against magical thinking, and Islamism is arguably the largest purveyor of magical thinking on the planet.
3 - We must fight the oligarchy.
Yes, I agree about the risk of nuclear war, but I think magical thinking (and its various side effects), and the oligarchy are what's most likely to get us into a deadly world war. For example, conflicts with Israel are strongly exacerbated by religious magical thinking, and Israel has to be high on the list of situations that could spark a war.
I fail to see how this helps or amends anything. Let the people themselves decide and stop forcing things on others. Stop with the colonialism and imperialism.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Iran is ruled by Islamists and most Iranians do not support these Islamists.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
It is this attitude that is turning Muslims ( and hence Muslim majority nations ) towards
Russia and China.
..in fact, any govt. that doesn't follow the US political system are deemed oppressors.
This is a fantasy .. once upon a time, the US had political credibility .. but now, it is
increasingly becoming the most corrupt nation on the planet, with its govt. being
dictated to (and effectively run) by the wealthy.
I can understand why some nations don't want to copy that .. it's a disaster, although
many people are mesmerized by its apparent success.
..it's only a matter of time.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Propaganda .. you'll see.