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Free will?

S

skywrath32

Member
Gjallarhorn said:
You seem very confused.

Free will is the ability to choose otherwise. Now let's take the only two options available: your decision is lawful or it is random. If your decision is lawful, there is no ability to choose otherwise, because it happens according to laws, much like a computer. If your decision is random, then "you" had no control over the decision anymore than a random number generator "chooses" its result.

You are saying that free will requires no outside force, which would imply that you are talking about the second option of randomness. Otherwise it does require an outside force: computers need inputs in order to create outputs.

Free will, as a concept, is nonsensical.
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Yes you are influenced but at the end, You are the one to decide and in my opinion that is the real FREE WILL. If you put yourself inside a white room with no person or anything to influence you but your necessities are there, Now when your hungry.. You will decide will you eat or not? Most of us will choose to eat while some will not for no reasons at all. Why? because of our free will to do so. now probably youll say its just randomness but it was us who decided to do a random thing.
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Gjallarhorn said:
You seem very confused.

Free will is the ability to choose otherwise. Now let's take the only two options available: your decision is lawful or it is random. If your decision is lawful, there is no ability to choose otherwise, because it happens according to laws, much like a computer. If your decision is random, then "you" had no control over the decision anymore than a random number generator "chooses" its result.

You are saying that free will requires no outside force, which would imply that you are talking about the second option of randomness. Otherwise it does require an outside force: computers need inputs in order to create outputs.

Free will, as a concept, is nonsensical.
Click to expand...
Free will is, "I did it. It was me." That's all it is. It's not about what caused me to do it--to seek a cause would looking at a picture of determinism rather than free will. It's not about randomness--as you say, if it was a random thing it wouldn't be "me" that did it. It's just about, "Me: I did it."
 
PolyHedral

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Willamena said:
Free will is, "I did it. It was me." That's all it is. It's not about what caused me to do it--to seek a cause would looking at a picture of determinism rather than free will. It's not about randomness--as you say, if it was a random thing it wouldn't be "me" that did it. It's just about, "Me: I did it."
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This is correct, but many people stop here - and ignore that things caused "I" to do things.
 
S

skywrath32

Member
Willamena said:
Free will is, "I did it. It was me." That's all it is. It's not about what caused me to do it--to seek a cause would looking at a picture of determinism rather than free will. It's not about randomness--as you say, if it was a random thing it wouldn't be "me" that did it. It's just about, "Me: I did it."
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exactly! You are not a puppet by your own body but rather your body is your puppet.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
free will is an illusion.

we are inclined to fooling ourselves....
we are also the only species that reasons our way into a threatening situation.

in the words of C3PO
"we're doomed"
;)
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
LegionOnomaMoi said:
As it turns out, faith need not be religious:
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What does faith necessarily have to do with freewill? But you are correct that faith need not be religious. In fact, every day I get in my car and drive in traffic I exercise my faith. I have faith that other drivers see me and wont plow into me.
 
methylatedghosts

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
skywrath32 said:
I believe that you are talking about the result of your thinking but what im saying is the root of your decision. eg. Will I choose x or y? There isnt a outer force needed for your decision.
And anyway I read an article, If evolution is right on all aspects including the animal who can adapt survives, Then free will exists coz surviving is living and living is choosing freely and deliberately.
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The view I was putting forward, is that the root of all decisions are simply previous inputs, previous sensory information, coupled with current inputs and imagined future results. Those imagined future results are the result of previous decisions and what they did for you. So essentially, everything you do, each choice you make, is the result of what you've experienced before.

This isn't so much to do with evolution. Evolution is simply the process by which species as a whole change and adapt to a changing environment. There is no decision-making process in there.

Note, that this may not necessarily be my personal view...
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Gjallarhorn said:
What made you want to do it?
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According to the various theories about free will at Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: preferences/wants, rational judgement, a desire for ‘good’, a desire for ‘truth’, and (most recently) a desire for identity.

But never ‘nothing’.
 
Gjallarhorn

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
Willamena said:
According to the various theories about free will at Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: preferences/wants, rational judgement, a desire for ‘good’, a desire for ‘truth’, and (most recently) a desire for identity.

But never ‘nothing’.
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And then we must ask what caused the desire...
 
MD

MD

qualiaphile
methylatedghosts said:
The view I was putting forward, is that the root of all decisions are simply previous inputs, previous sensory information, coupled with current inputs and imagined future results. Those imagined future results are the result of previous decisions and what they did for you. So essentially, everything you do, each choice you make, is the result of what you've experienced before.
Click to expand...

I disagree, in life there are novel decisions we make independent of prior influences. Not to mention the very concept of imagination.

Information conveyed through quantum processes in the brain result in non deterministic patterns of thought.
 
PolyHedral

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
shahz said:
I disagree, in life there are novel decisions we make independent of prior influences. Not to mention the very concept of imagination.

Information conveyed through quantum processes in the brain result in non deterministic patterns of thought.
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AFAWK, there are no significant quantum patterns in the brain. People are crap random number generators.
 
methylatedghosts

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
shahz said:
I disagree, in life there are novel decisions we make independent of prior influences. Not to mention the very concept of imagination.
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Do you have an example?

Information conveyed through quantum processes in the brain result in non deterministic patterns of thought.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what is meant by "quantum processes in the brain"...
 
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