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Freemasonry

England, I am very sorry but this is one time when I cannot answer you without revealing information that you are not entitled to know. All I can say is that men and women have different, but equally important roles to fulfil during their mortal existence here on Earth. I cannot add any more.
 
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logician

Well-Known Member
England, I am very sorry but this is one time when I cannot answer you without revealing information that you are not entitled to know. All I can say is that men and women have different, but equally important roles to fulfil during their mortal existence here on Earth. I cannot add any more.

Are you related to Dick Cheney?
 

blackout

Violet.
Oh, I don't need medication to deal with you twinkle.


This is exactly what I mean.

You shouldn't feel you need to "deal" with me at all.
I'm a person on a religious forum interested in discussion.
If you're gunna fall apart when people want to discuss things
on a discussion forum... :shrug:

So you come in here, your first post called "freemasonry",
(not "hi, I"m new" or something personal like that)
say you'll answer questions about freemasonry
then get all bent out of shape when people ask questions you don't wanna answer.

So I ask you questions and all I get are vague half answers.
Not even anything personal and friendly.
You put forth no deeper reason for the male only stance
for understanding or discussion,
You don't even make an attempt at humor regarding your "secrecy".
(ie you take yourself way to seriously)

Honestly, if you come on a forum, and don't wanna answer people's questions,
and are going to be RUDE about it,
well I don't know. WHY are you here?

PS... one of my favorite posters here was a freemason,
but he didn't make a big thing about it like you do.
Calling attention to it and all, so we just rarely talked about it.
If he'd started a thread on it...
I would have said the very same things to him.

I also like Sojourner quite a lot.
We obviously don't agree on lots of stuff,
but he's an interesting guy
with a good sense of humor
willing to discuss stuff and think outside the box.

 
Well I haven't posted in a while because if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all but wow :clap I applaud you grandsecretary.

I guess you have managed to annoy at least half the people attending this particular thread, does this ability come easy or does it just take practice?

I think the only real person here who was questioned you has been mrcheese, and even then you have chosen to ignore him and hide behind facts from your website, which I might add is not a credible source.

How can you claim that you have members from all faiths and beliefs when you yourself said that your group was a religion to begin with. I believe that most mainstream religions prohibit their members from practicing different faiths apart from their own.

As to Ultraviolet there are women groups, and there are groups called co-freemasonry who's ritual is almost the same as mainstream freemasony but it is made up of men and women. It is considered a rogue group but it is not as looked down upon as some of the others out there. Besides, if you really wanted to find out about Freemasonry just google it (but becareful as there is a lot of crap out there).
A good book for you to read would maybe be the Hiram Key, it is written by two Freemasons and talks about the ritual and things like that.

Back to grandsecretary, if you are going to reply to me please don't quote a bunch of information about your website and I would appreiciate it if you would stop turning the conversation back around onto to me by claiming I am a UGLE plant and asked me to answer for crimes that never happened.
 

blackout

Violet.
Well I haven't posted in a while because if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all but wow :clap I applaud you grandsecretary.

I guess you have managed to annoy at least half the people attending this particular thread, does this ability come easy or does it just take practice?

I think the only real person here who was questioned you has been mrcheese, and even then you have chosen to ignore him and hide behind facts from your website, which I might add is not a credible source.

How can you claim that you have members from all faiths and beliefs when you yourself said that your group was a religion to begin with. I believe that most mainstream religions prohibit their members from practicing different faiths apart from their own.

As to Ultraviolet there are women groups, and there are groups called co-freemasonry who's ritual is almost the same as mainstream freemasony but it is made up of men and women. It is considered a rogue group but it is not as looked down upon as some of the others out there. Besides, if you really wanted to find out about Freemasonry just google it (but becareful as there is a lot of crap out there).
A good book for you to read would maybe be the Hiram Key, it is written by two Freemasons and talks about the ritual and things like that.

Back to grandsecretary, if you are going to reply to me please don't quote a bunch of information about your website and I would appreiciate it if you would stop turning the conversation back around onto to me by claiming I am a UGLE plant and asked me to answer for crimes that never happened.

I do actually have a couple of questions, but I will take them to you privately, when I have a chance. People get way to sensitive & secretive about this stuff, and I'd just like to be able to put my peceptions on the table and get some straight answers. My questions are general in nature and do not require the revelation of your 33rd degree secrets. (or maybe they do?);)
thanks. ~V~

PS. glad to hear of your rogue group.
There's nothing wrong with 3 branches.
People can choose what they want.
As a woman, I do not like being left out of things
that might improve my connections in the world
on the sheer basis that I'm a woman.
It leaves us at a clear disadvantage in the world
and feels like an attempt to keep us down as the "weaker sex".
Many sucessful-and well connected- men in society have been freemasons.
This honestly would have been my main reason for wanting access.
(knowing nothing else for sure about it due to the haze of secrecy & rumor surrounding it)
As well... what I saw online of Manly P. Hall's books looked symbolic, esoteric and Occultic
when I looked into it a bit years back, (as I recal it... with even pics of Baphomet)
But no two masons seem to have the same take on it,
and then others don't want to say anything at all about it.
Some christians say it's anti-christian,
while other serious christians join.
eh.
I personally would join the ToS anyway,
if I were to join a secret society,
but still I am curious about all the conflicting accounts of freemasonry I've encountered over the years.
So sue me. right?

(I'm not christian btw. though I occasionally refer to mySelf as an Occultic christian)
 
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Well I haven't posted in a while because if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all but wow :clap I applaud you grandsecretary.

I guess you have managed to annoy at least half the people attending this particular thread, does this ability come easy or does it just take practice?

I think the only real person here who was questioned you has been mrcheese, and even then you have chosen to ignore him and hide behind facts from your website, which I might add is not a credible source.

How can you claim that you have members from all faiths and beliefs when you yourself said that your group was a religion to begin with. I believe that most mainstream religions prohibit their members from practicing different faiths apart from their own.

As to Ultraviolet there are women groups, and there are groups called co-freemasonry who's ritual is almost the same as mainstream freemasony but it is made up of men and women. It is considered a rogue group but it is not as looked down upon as some of the others out there. Besides, if you really wanted to find out about Freemasonry just google it (but becareful as there is a lot of crap out there).
A good book for you to read would maybe be the Hiram Key, it is written by two Freemasons and talks about the ritual and things like that.

Back to grandsecretary, if you are going to reply to me please don't quote a bunch of information about your website and I would appreiciate it if you would stop turning the conversation back around onto to me by claiming I am a UGLE plant and asked me to answer for crimes that never happened.

I'm not.
 

blackout

Violet.
Even the elite leave their women out of Bohemian grove.

I bet that really ****** some of them off too.
And why shouldn't it?!
*pictures Hillary stewing about it*
Why does the idea of that image make me laugh.
*don't laugh Violet, it's not funny.*

What do I dislike more.... Chauvenism? or Elitism?.....
Chauavenistic Elitism? or Elitist Chauvenism.

:D
 
I do actually have a couple of questions, but I will take them to you privately, when I have a chance. People get way to sensitive & secretive about this stuff, and I'd just like to be able to put my peceptions on the table and get some straight answers. My questions are general in nature and do not require the revelation of your 33rd degree secrets. (or maybe they do?);)
thanks. ~V~

PS. glad to hear of your rogue group.
There's nothing wrong with 3 branches.
People can choose what they want.
As a woman, I do not like being left out of things
that might improve my connections in the world
on the sheer basis that I'm a woman.
It leaves us at a clear disadvantage in the world
and feels like an attempt to keep us down as the "weaker sex".
Many sucessful-and well connected- men in society have been freemasons.
This honestly would have been my main reason for wanting access.
(knowing nothing else for sure about it due to the haze of secrecy & rumor surrounding it)
As well... what I saw online of Manly P. Hall's books looked symbolic, esoteric and Occultic
when I looked into it a bit years back, (as I recal it... with even pics of Baphomet)
But no two masons seem to have the same take on it,
and then others don't want to say anything at all about it.
Some christians say it's anti-christian,
while other serious christians join.
eh.
I personally would join the ToS anyway,
if I were to join a secret society,
but still I am curious about all the conflicting accounts of freemasonry I've encountered over the years.
So sue me. right?

(I'm not christian btw. though I occasionally refer to mySelf as an Occultic christian)

I am very deeply into esotericism and I am a bit of an Occultist myself. Saying that I am not a satanist and I will basically accept all groups and faiths as they are all a path to god for some individual. That being said I really do not like satanist, they annoy me lol.

If your interested in some good esoteric things read/listen to anything by Manly.P.Hall and anything by Albert Pike. (Both famous American Freemasons and esoterics).

You will find that there are quite a few esoteric freemasons as I joined to further my own esoteric studies and practices.
 
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blackout

Violet.
I am very deeply into esotericism and I am a bit of an Occultist myself. Saying that I am not a satanist and I will basically accept all groups and faiths as they are all a path to god for some individual. That being said I really do not like satanist, they annoy me lol.
Satanism doesn't appeal to me either.
Setianism though appeals to me very much.
Every Setian I have met has been intelligent, interesting, mature, growing positively,
and sucessful in one area or another. (to the extent I can tell online anyway)

If your interested in some good esoteric things read/listen to anything by Manly.P.Hall and anything by Albert Pike. (Both famous American Freemasons and esoterics).

You will find that there are quite a few esoteric freemasons as I joined to further my own esoteric studies and practices.

Right Albert Pike as well.
It's been a while so whatever I once read all runs together.
(my perspective back then was not what it is today either)

Esotericism is a must for me also.
It's how I naturally think and look at life.
For me esotericism and the Occult (the Hidden) go hand in hand.

You know, I get annoyed because there are so few things to join that interest me.
There is no ToS (Temple of Set) pylon anywhwere near me.
And I really don't know if freemasonry seems interesting or not.
But what does it really matter for me anyway.
UU's are way to politically oriented for me.
Wicca does not do it for me.
There is no group for me.

So whatever.
If you wanna start another thread,
I'll join you over there.
 
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blackout

Violet.
I'm not into Wicca either, it does it for some people but not for me.

I can definately appreciate aspects of Wicca...
I like the tripple goddess moon symbolism,
and am more aware of the four elements
as a result of Wiccan oriented friends,
but as a practice it does not suit me at all.

I've thought of trying to entice any closet Chaotes out
via surrounding towns websites. :D
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Masonry has always been a mens society. Think about its formation about 300 years ago (modern), were there any female acedemics and the such? Nope. Male only is a tradition.

To my knowledge (told to me by Daemonpainter) some lodges do accept women but are not officially recognised.


Masonary is a male only thing because:

the spiritual rituals are geared specifically FOR men,....

sexist or not, it is what it is....

Here is an interesting view that some may find of interest....

and is an actual conversational piece, as opposed to posting about meetings in ale houses and special pieces of paper...

........................................

In more customary and conservative fields of materialist psychology, we find the typical Victorian concern for labeling. If something can be labeled, it need not be understood. A label also distances us from the subject matter; we need not be involved in it too deeply, we can stand aside and consider it coldly, dispassionately; when we find something that we do not understand, something that instills fear or doubt or uncertainty, we try to fit it to our set of labels. Thus archetypes, gods and goddesses, mythic patterns, and the flow of energy in the human psyche and body, are all reduced to a set of labels within a conceptual framework. We have a comfortable feeling, thereafter, of knowing what we are talking about, writing about, experiencing, or, perhaps, avoiding experiencing. Victorian psychology and occultism share this entrenched attitude.

Now it has to be said that the same concern with naming names is true of genuine ancient and contemporary magical and spiritual traditions; the Mysteries (in any form worldwide) are replete with systems, labels, connective structures and so forth. They do not, however, regard the system, the label, as being of any value in itself; there is no reductionism in the Mysteries unless the individual chooses, in a typical modern sense, to reach no further than the labels themselves.
This apparent similarity between mythic re-tellings and obsessive listings is brought into proper focus when we realize that the original mythic epics and magical correspondences were not written down, but were vehicles of a living oral tradition. The use of images and verses from memory rather than from the printed page is an essential aid to transformation of consciousness: this is why magical traditions insist on learning by heart what seems, to the modern intellect, to be a mass of superficially indigestible lore.

Much of our response to ancient mythic patterns and magical or religious systems is heavily conditioned by that same Victorian obsessive labeling as materialist psychology; it is most unlikely that the lists of correspondences used in the esoteric traditions were ever regarded as scientific or authoritative in the nineteenth century sense that still dominates much of modern thought and practice. They were more in the nature of incantations, dream flows, protean collections that were used to attune the consciousness to holisms, rather than to reduce perception to series of items.

The Male Mysteries, like any branch of esoteric tradition, are essentially practical. The male-dominated elitist secret societies and occult orders of, for example, the nineteenth century, tended towards the intellectual, the hierarchical, and of course towards extreme obscurity. But there are older traditions, sometimes hidden within intellectual occultism and sometimes quite separate from it. It is the hidden traditions that we should restore for the present day, and it is in those traditions that we find the direct teachings, myths and legends of the Five Branches, and their empowering gods and goddess forms.

...............




The Theosophical Society, despite its many admirable achievements in the causes of women's rights, racial equality, antivivisection, and ,of course, the liberation of India from British rule, had a surprisingly wide range of negative undertones. Many of these undertones were prevalent in other esoteric teachings and magical orders of the period, and have persisted unbroken to the present day, often re-manifesting in the New Age movement. We shall touch upon such difficult and potentially suppressive streams of consciousness throughout this book, but for the moment need to state the primary ones briefly.


The Theosophical Society, and related but far less politically influential magical Orders such as the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, placed a strong emphasis upon 'hidden Masters'. These were an elite of supposedly superhuman males, living in secret isolation and dictating the progress of the human race. To a certain extent this concept derives from a perennial teaching concerning Innerworld or spiritual masters, who are said to exist in, and act or communicate from, other dimensions, and to relate to humanity in many varying but generally beneficial ways.
The suggestion that such teachers are almost exclusively male, and that they are, in fact, super-physical beings moving secretly among humanity and steering our 'evolution' is a subtle but powerful twist to an age-old original teaching, and has many negative ramifications.


Such concepts are anathema to spiritual development, to equality and harmony of the sexes, and to individual emotional and mental maturity. At the most juvenile level they can lead weak misguided men to assume that they are, or soon will be, such 'Masters' but this is only the most obvious and trivial result. More subtly they presuppose that humanity is little more than a series of manipulated races or, at best, a collective entity being steered by higher forces and specific (male) intelligences. The worst extremes of this type of esoteric teaching merge imperceptibly with racism and fascism, in which superior male immortals cultivate a racial elite at the expense of other 'non-Aryan' or supposedly lesser races.
Much of this negative dross has permeated through into certain modern or New Age cults and societies, also claiming tuition from 'channeled' sources, hidden Masters, and the advent of an elect or elite within the present or next century.
This range of suppressive conceptual structures derives in turn from the political programming of historical or exoteric Christianity, carefully devised to generate belief in an 'elect' abandoning or even hostile to 'the damned', and firmly based upon male superiority.

Nor should we assume that movements based upon eastern (or more usually, pseudo-eastern) religions operating in the West are free of this long-term pernicious suppressive program; very often the veneer of eastern spirituality and the glamorous use of exotic words and half-understood practices, masks what is at root an essentially Judaeo-Christian outlook. The much abused and misunderstand concept of karma is a typical example of this, while the pseudo-scientific use of 'evolution' within esoteric, spiritual, and New Age teachings, be they eastern or western based, is another. We shall return to these subjects in our later pages, for both karma and evolution are central to the Male Mysteries, though not in the popularized and often perverted manner in which they are regularly presented today.
Clearly none of this suppressive monosexual elitism is adequate or desirable for the twenty-first century, and any man or woman seeking inner growth should be very cautious indeed of working with any movement or set of teachings that derives from such sources or suggests such ideas. The most dangerous concepts are often subtly hidden or cunningly disguised with several layers of camouflage, and are often only fully perceived through meditation and contemplation, rather than in a gross outer form, though such outer forms abound in the current expansive warm wet climate of consciousness.

In our present context of the Male Mysteries, men need to be particularly aware that many lines or streams of concepts, of imagery, involving hidden Masters and so-called spiritual evolution, are in fact linked to the negative suppressive shadow of enlightenment, a word widely used to loosely mean spiritual liberation. For many centuries this shadow has resonated and manifested through male-elitism, which damages men as much as it does women. We shall return to this subject in many places in the following pages, as it is one of the major problems that men must address if they are to recover a proper Mystery or process of true enlightenment for the coming century.

http://www.amazon.com/Celebrating-Male-Mysteries-R-Stewart/dp/1873596014/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225807517&sr=1-2
 
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Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
This game old Lady seems to have been able to join,well an all girl lodge that is
Pier Productions for BBC Radio 4
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Chief women Freemason, Eileen Grey (pictures by Alice Rosenbaum)

There's only one thing more mysterious than Freemasons, and that's women Freemasons. The controversial brotherhood is widely thought to be a male-only preserve, but sisters, or should that be "brothers", are doing it for themselves

Women are not offically recognised though
 
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