Freewill and Volition

[Ben Masada]

Dear Ben,

Since God created man "perfect," and the Devil, in the personification of the snake, enticed and succeeded to mar that perfection in man, is it proper to blame Satan for our shortcomings?

No, it's not; but even if lyou do, it will be as if you didn't. There is no such a thing as Devil or Satan. Therefore, you won't get rid of the blame for your shortcomings. Besides, the whole theory of Creation is metaphorical. So, there is no wisdom in admiting that the narrative is literal.

Some ancient and non-Biblical modern peoples have also their version of creation. Anyway, our version is also a theory; but that God created man, there must be no doubt in our minds. Theories abound but in the realm of how man was crated.

Now, why can't we blame the Devil or whatever for our shortcomings? The name is Freewill and Volition. The choice to do right instead of wrong, and the exercising of
the will to do so, constitutes true characater in man. When life and death were set before man, and man was proposed to choose life, a devil or whatever was not commissioned to induce him to choose death. Man was solely left to choose his own destiny. (Deut. 3:19)

Man will die someday because one day he was born. Anyway, both are part of life. That's absolutely beyond the borders of our power to interfere. But how we will live or manage the span between birth and death is entirely up to us.

There are some who choose to spend all of their lives in the pursuit of pleasure, according to their means. But this kind of life will bring only disatisfaction at the end of it due to the feeling of not having achieved anything worthwhile. Others run all life long after honor, but since honor depends more on the one who gives it rather than on him who gets it, anxiety is prone to strike in due time as a result of disappointments. Still others go on struggling throughout life engulfed in a money-making spree as if wealth can be regarded as an end in itself. With temperance in every area, the contemplative life guides one into the intellectual communion with God.

Ben:rainbow1:

 

[pallanfred]

To deny the existance of Satan is to call the bible and the Gospels uninspired. Check it out friend, the Christ makes direct refernces to the devil, and even had interaction with him.
Satan is not the opposite of God, but he is the servent of God and according to Job, can only act under God's authority. Satan did rebel against the will of God, and was himself wanting equality with God. This is what he uses to tempt mankind. Even if Genesis 1 and 2 is metaphorical, then he metaphorically still exists, and we must ask ourselves if in our demands that the first two chapters are metaphorical, then ask, what is the metaphor of Satan supposed to represent. But, the devil is not responsible for our choices to rebel or obey the Creator. If the devil was responsible, then God would be unjust. We know this because of the curses that are put on man and woman, along with the serpent. If the devil were responsible, we would not be under the curse of adam, and thus nulifying the need for mercy and our need for the Christ. That would mean Yeshua came and allowed himself to be murdered for no reason and moreover would be calling God a liar. We are completely responsible for our own choices to disobey the Father. Ben, it is interesting that you deny the existance of the devil...may I ask you why you have this understanding?

 

[mikmik]

Dear Ben,

Since God created man "perfect," and the Devil, in the personification of the snake, enticed and succeeded to mar that perfection in man, is it proper to blame Satan for our shortcomings?

No, it's not; but even if lyou do, it will be as if you didn't. There is no such a thing as Devil or Satan. Therefore, you won't get rid of the blame for your shortcomings. Besides, the whole theory of Creation is metaphorical. So, there is no wisdom in admiting that the narrative is literal....

Yes, it is obvious that Jesus Christ saw him as real enough, all through the gospels. And, correct me if I am wrong, but the book of Peter is one of the books of the NT that you respect? This book gives us a very strong warning about Satan, our adversary.

Mark 1.13 And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan, and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to Him. (Luke 4.1-13)

1 Pet 5.8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

mik

 

[Ben Masada]

Yes, it is obvious that Jesus Christ saw him as real enough, all through the gospels. And, correct me if I am wrong, but the book of Peter is one of the books of the NT that you respect? This book gives us a very strong warning about Satan, our adversary.

+++Ben: - I hate to rain on your parade but Peter did not write that book. It was written by one of Paul's disciples and attributed to him either by the author which I doubt, but certainly by the Church in the Fourth Century.

Mark 1.13 And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan, and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to Him. (Luke 4.1-13)

+++Ben: - Are you positive? Luke says that as soon as he came out of the Jordan River he was taken by the Spirit into the wilderness to fast for 40 days, where he was tempted by the Devil. Do you believe this? Why don't you ask John? Three days
after his baptism by John the Baptist, he was getting married in Cana with Mary Magdalene. Ask John when Jesus went to the desert. He ignores such a thing in the life of Jesus. Do you know why? Because it doesn't make sense. Jesus needed to start his Ministry and as a single man, he couldn't. He needed to get married after the "Mikveh". Did you read my topic about "The Wedding of Jesus?"

1 Pet 5.8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

mik

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Please my friend, wake up and smell the coffee! We are already in the 21st. Century. Satans and Devils are like the Olympian gods: Gone forever.

Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

To deny the existance of Satan is to call the bible and the Gospels uninspired. Check it out friend, the Christ makes direct refernces to the devil, and even had interaction with him.

+++Ben: - I can't believe that at this day and age people still believe these things!

Satan is not the opposite of God, but he is the servent of God and according to Job, can only act under God's authority. Satan did rebel against the will of God, and was himself wanting equality with God. This is what he uses to tempt mankind. Even if Genesis 1 and 2 is metaphorical, then he metaphorically still exists, and we must ask ourselves if in our demands that the first two chapters are metaphorical, then ask, what is the metaphor of Satan supposed to represent.

+++Ben: - How can something exist metaphorically? He! He! He!

But, the devil is not responsible for our choices to rebel or obey the Creator. If the devil was responsible, then God would be unjust. We know this because of the curses that are put on man and woman, along with the serpent. If the devil were responsible, we would not be under the curse of adam, and thus nulifying the need for mercy and our need for the Christ.

+++Ben: - I didn't say the Devil is responsible for our choices. You misunderstood my topic.

That would mean Yeshua came and allowed himself to be murdered for no reason and moreover would be calling God a liar. We are completely responsible for our own choices to disobey the Father. Ben, it is interesting that you deny the existance of the devil...may I ask you why you have this understanding?

+++Ben: - Because I am Jewish, and Jews believe that God is absolutely One, and without any rival. Then, that Satan or Devil is only a concept to illustrate the evil inclination in man. As a living being, it has been fabricated by religious crooks to play with people's fears and make a living out of their naivete.

Ben:sorry1:

 

[pallanfred]

That’s interesting, there can be no doubt whatsoever that culturally there has been a "fear the devil" mantra developed in Christian myth. The tricky part is to separate myth from fact. According to psalm 23, we shouldn't fear evil if we are walking with God as our Sheppard. As a man who walks under the protection of God, we should only have a healthy fear and respect of God himself. According to Solomon, our whole duty as mankind is to Fear and Obey God. Being an non believer, there are a lot of reasons to resent Christianity, and to try to persuade people that Jesus’ life was anything other than what is reported in the Gospel if you are not a Christian. A famous Jew once pointed out that that the logic of God makes fools out of intellectuals, this same person said that the weakness of God (if there was such a thing) is stronger than man’s greatest strengths. I like your post Ben because they are showing the illogic of non-believers’. Any true believer in the Christ (as Yeshua of Nazareth) will do their homework after your challenges to the truth. It will do well to refine the faith of our younger converts. I recognize your ideology on Christian faith as what is taught at some “temple” and synagogues. The other post is too full, so I’ll comment on here. For Christ, he was what you would call Jewish counter culture in the first century C.E. He wouldn’t have fit in. In fact, at the age of 12, he was caught teaching in the Temple. His life was exemplary, but he started out living in controversy; conceived out of wedlock, born in a barn, yet worshiped as a king. Herod was stark raving mad about killing Him before he was even two years old. The prophecies say that he was to come out of Egypt, Nazareth, Galilee, and Bethlehem. The fact that He had a life that made all this true was so extremely hard to believe that He was for sure to be considered a lunatic. Well, that has to be the case, for anyone to believe a person who considers himself to be equal with God, and in fact, God Himself, must be completely insane; or, perhaps they are telling the truth? The first four Chapters in the Book of Matthew are the proofs offered up as a testimony of why Jesus of Nazareth should be considered the Christ. That same book is filled with references as to when JoN (Jesus of Nazareth)or YoN (Yeshua of Nazareth) was fulfilling prophecy. Also, Chapters 5 through 7 are the core of the teachings of Christ, of which, all are based out of the Ten Commandments. Now, the first seven chapters of Matthew is what the entire New Testament is all about. This being said, one thing that is only mentioned a few times, is that the Bride of Christ is the Church. Jesus had to stay physically pure and un-indulged in the flesh to fulfill scripture, and to save Himself for the Church. There will one day be a spiritual union of the assembly of believers and The Spirit of God. Although there can be no doubt that God is one, He also refers to Himself in the plural once or twice in Genesis. We, as Christians say that God is one, but yet three in one. For example, you are one, yet you are three in one. There is Ben the body, Ben the Mind, and Ben the soul; three yet one. Christ was called by the early Jewish church, the LOGOS of God. He is the mind, the reasoning of God. He says that to know God is to first know Christ. Christ is the will of God manifest. Your attacks on the Gospel are a God send for the believers who read your posts, because as usual from our unbelieving Jewish brethren who attack the faith, it only makes us stronger. You can just feel the indignation coming out of our brothers and sisters in the faith as they respond to your ignorant foolishness. Moreover, you fulfill the word of Christ as you pursue to do these things. A very famous Jewish historian, that was born shortly after Yeshua died, recorded many things that happened to Yeshua as the Christ. Josephus wasn’t a Christian, yet recognized Yeshua as a Godly man and even the possible Christ. You would do well to study the writings of this historian, Josephus. Your theories are full of holes, but Ben, you get an A for effort. I know all those thoughts were a little back and forth, and here and there, but I wanted to get it all out. I love you my friend, as my Master allows, and thank you for your post so that you may continue to strengthen those of us who are weak in our knowledge of the Bible.

 

[AK4]

That’s interesting, there can be no doubt whatsoever that culturally there has been a "fear the devil" mantra developed in Christian myth. The tricky part is to separate myth from fact. According to psalm 23, we shouldn't fear evil if we are walking with God as our Sheppard. As a man who walks under the protection of God, we should only have a healthy fear and respect of God himself. According to Solomon, our whole duty as mankind is to Fear and Obey God. Being an non believer, there are a lot of reasons to resent Christianity, and to try to persuade people that Jesus’ life was anything other than what is reported in the Gospel if you are not a Christian. A famous Jew once pointed out that that the logic of God makes fools out of intellectuals, this same person said that the weakness of God (if there was such a thing) is stronger than man’s greatest strengths. I like your post Ben because they are showing the illogic of non-believers’. Any true believer in the Christ (as Yeshua of Nazareth) will do their homework after your challenges to the truth. It will do well to refine the faith of our younger converts. I recognize your ideology on Christian faith as what is taught at some “temple” and synagogues. The other post is too full, so I’ll comment on here. For Christ, he was what you would call Jewish counter culture in the first century C.E. He wouldn’t have fit in. In fact, at the age of 12, he was caught teaching in the Temple. His life was exemplary, but he started out living in controversy; conceived out of wedlock, born in a barn, yet worshiped as a king. Herod was stark raving mad about killing Him before he was even two years old. The prophecies say that he was to come out of Egypt, Nazareth, Galilee, and Bethlehem. The fact that He had a life that made all this true was so extremely hard to believe that He was for sure to be considered a lunatic. Well, that has to be the case, for anyone to believe a person who considers himself to be equal with God, and in fact, God Himself, must be completely insane; or, perhaps they are telling the truth? The first four Chapters in the Book of Matthew are the proofs offered up as a testimony of why Jesus of Nazareth should be considered the Christ. That same book is filled with references as to when JoN (Jesus of Nazareth)or YoN (Yeshua of Nazareth) was fulfilling prophecy. Also, Chapters 5 through 7 are the core of the teachings of Christ, of which, all are based out of the Ten Commandments. Now, the first seven chapters of Matthew is what the entire New Testament is all about. This being said, one thing that is only mentioned a few times, is that the Bride of Christ is the Church. Jesus had to stay physically pure and un-indulged in the flesh to fulfill scripture, and to save Himself for the Church. There will one day be a spiritual union of the assembly of believers and The Spirit of God. Although there can be no doubt that God is one, He also refers to Himself in the plural once or twice in Genesis. We, as Christians say that God is one, but yet three in one. For example, you are one, yet you are three in one. There is Ben the body, Ben the Mind, and Ben the soul; three yet one. Christ was called by the early Jewish church, the LOGOS of God. He is the mind, the reasoning of God. He says that to know God is to first know Christ. Christ is the will of God manifest. Your attacks on the Gospel are a God send for the believers who read your posts, because as usual from our unbelieving Jewish brethren who attack the faith, it only makes us stronger. You can just feel the indignation coming out of our brothers and sisters in the faith as they respond to your ignorant foolishness. Moreover, you fulfill the word of Christ as you pursue to do these things. A very famous Jewish historian, that was born shortly after Yeshua died, recorded many things that happened to Yeshua as the Christ. Josephus wasn’t a Christian, yet recognized Yeshua as a Godly man and even the possible Christ. You would do well to study the writings of this historian, Josephus. Your theories are full of holes, but Ben, you get an A for effort. I know all those thoughts were a little back and forth, and here and there, but I wanted to get it all out. I love you my friend, as my Master allows, and thank you for your post so that you may continue to strengthen those of us who are weak in our knowledge of the Bible.

I agree with you:clap:clap All except the three in one. The trinity is not scriptural, but thats another thread. But everything else i applaud

 

[Ben Masada]

That’s interesting, there can be no doubt whatsoever that culturally there has been a "fear the devil" mantra developed in Christian myth. The tricky part is to separate myth from fact. According to psalm 23, we shouldn't fear evil if we are walking with God as our Sheppard. As a man who walks under the protection of God, we should only have a healthy fear and respect of God himself. According to Solomon, our whole duty as mankind is to Fear and Obey God. Being an non believer, there are a lot of reasons to resent Christianity, and to try to persuade people that Jesus’ life was anything other than what is reported in the Gospel if you are not a Christian. A famous Jew once pointed out that that the logic of God makes fools out of intellectuals, this same person said that the weakness of God (if there was such a thing) is stronger than man’s greatest strengths. I like your post Ben because they are showing the illogic of non-believers’. Any true believer in the Christ (as Yeshua of Nazareth) will do their homework after your challenges to the truth. It will do well to refine the faith of our younger converts. I recognize your ideology on Christian faith as what is taught at some “temple” and synagogues. The other post is too full, so I’ll comment on here. For Christ, he was what you would call Jewish counter culture in the first century C.E. He wouldn’t have fit in. In fact, at the age of 12, he was caught teaching in the Temple. His life was exemplary, but he started out living in controversy; conceived out of wedlock, born in a barn, yet worshiped as a king. Herod was stark raving mad about killing Him before he was even two years old. The prophecies say that he was to come out of Egypt, Nazareth, Galilee, and Bethlehem. The fact that He had a life that made all this true was so extremely hard to believe that He was for sure to be considered a lunatic. Well, that has to be the case, for anyone to believe a person who considers himself to be equal with God, and in fact, God Himself, must be completely insane; or, perhaps they are telling the truth? The first four Chapters in the Book of Matthew are the proofs offered up as a testimony of why Jesus of Nazareth should be considered the Christ. That same book is filled with references as to when JoN (Jesus of Nazareth)or YoN (Yeshua of Nazareth) was fulfilling prophecy. Also, Chapters 5 through 7 are the core of the teachings of Christ, of which, all are based out of the Ten Commandments. Now, the first seven chapters of Matthew is what the entire New Testament is all about. This being said, one thing that is only mentioned a few times, is that the Bride of Christ is the Church. Jesus had to stay physically pure and un-indulged in the flesh to fulfill scripture, and to save Himself for the Church. There will one day be a spiritual union of the assembly of believers and The Spirit of God. Although there can be no doubt that God is one, He also refers to Himself in the plural once or twice in Genesis. We, as Christians say that God is one, but yet three in one. For example, you are one, yet you are three in one. There is Ben the body, Ben the Mind, and Ben the soul; three yet one. Christ was called by the early Jewish church, the LOGOS of God. He is the mind, the reasoning of God. He says that to know God is to first know Christ. Christ is the will of God manifest. Your attacks on the Gospel are a God send for the believers who read your posts, because as usual from our unbelieving Jewish brethren who attack the faith, it only makes us stronger. You can just feel the indignation coming out of our brothers and sisters in the faith as they respond to your ignorant foolishness. Moreover, you fulfill the word of Christ as you pursue to do these things. A very famous Jewish historian, that was born shortly after Yeshua died, recorded many things that happened to Yeshua as the Christ. Josephus wasn’t a Christian, yet recognized Yeshua as a Godly man and even the possible Christ. You would do well to study the writings of this historian, Josephus. Your theories are full of holes, but Ben, you get an A for effort. I know all those thoughts were a little back and forth, and here and there, but I wanted to get it all out. I love you my friend, as my Master allows, and thank you for your post so that you may continue to strengthen those of us who are weak in our knowledge of the Bible.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Pallanfred,

I had in mind a lot to put down in refutation to your long writing above. But I got so impressed by such a beautiful piece of writing that the only thing I was reminded of was what King Agrippa said to Paul. For a little more you would have made of me a Christian." Something like that. The point is that I got deeply touched by your well-said words. They did cause a great impression on me.

God bless you too aboundantly,

Ben:rainbow1:

 

[pallanfred]

Thank you Ben, and AK4, thank you for your kind words. I agree that the concept of "trinity" isn't exactly what one would call truth. In Trinity thinking, God is three equal parts, Christ, Holy Spirit, and God the Father. Well, this isn't exactly a biblical truth. However, there can be no doubt that God is "expressed" through Christ, via the Spirit of God, who is the Father. Christ humbled himself before the Father, and it is because of the Father that Christ plays the role he does (ultimate Universal authority) as is granted by God the Father. Biblically, there is no question that Christ is in submission to the Father, and the Spirit is the Gift to mankind and the manifest expression and aid to all who are in Christ. The Spirit leads us…God’s Spirit leads the Christians, who are held accountable to obey the commands of Christ, which Christ willing admits are actually the Father’s words. Christ has no authority of Himself other than what the Father has given him. Both Christ and the Spirit are in submission to the Father, in one sense. These differing manifestations of God are simply expressions of the same God. I speak, I write this post, and initiate and control both. My speaking and writing are in submission to me, yet it is all me; so is God.

 

[Willamena]

Since God created man "perfect," and the Devil, in the personification of the snake, enticed and succeeded to mar that perfection in man....

Therein's your imperfection.

 

[AK4]

Thank you Ben, and AK4, thank you for your kind words. I agree that the concept of "trinity" isn't exactly what one would call truth. In Trinity thinking, God is three equal parts, Christ, Holy Spirit, and God the Father. Well, this isn't exactly a biblical truth. However, there can be no doubt that God is "expressed" through Christ, via the Spirit of God, who is the Father. Christ humbled himself before the Father, and it is because of the Father that Christ plays the role he does (ultimate Universal authority) as is granted by God the Father. Biblically, there is no question that Christ is in submission to the Father, and the Spirit is the Gift to mankind and the manifest expression and aid to all who are in Christ. The Spirit leads us…God’s Spirit leads the Christians, who are held accountable to obey the commands of Christ, which Christ willing admits are actually the Father’s words. Christ has no authority of Himself other than what the Father has given him. Both Christ and the Spirit are in submission to the Father, in one sense. These differing manifestations of God are simply expressions of the same God. I speak, I write this post, and initiate and control both. My speaking and writing are in submission to me, yet it is all me; so is God.

Its a hard concept to unlearn, the trinity doctrine, because its been engraved in us for so many years, but maybe this paper a good friend wrote can help you with this falsehood of the trinity WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS? & WHO IS HIS FATHER? . . . Nashville Conference 2007

 

[Ben Masada]

Its a hard concept to unlearn, the trinity doctrine, because its been engraved in us for so many years, but maybe this paper a good friend wrote can help you with this falsehood of the trinity WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS? & WHO IS HIS FATHER? . . . Nashville Conference 2007

++++++++++++++++++++

There is absolutely nothing we can do to accommodate the doctrine of the Trinity.
God is absolutely One. Jesus was the first son of Joseph and Mary. If Christians
insist on claiming that he was not Joseph's son, they are only smearing the name of Mary and of Jesus for that matter with the shameful option that Pantera was his
father. And with reason, because there is no place in Judaism for Greek Mythology.

Ben :sorry1:

 

[AK4]

++++++++++++++++++++

There is absolutely nothing we can do to accommodate the doctrine of the Trinity.
God is absolutely One. Jesus was the first son of Joseph and Mary. If Christians
insist on claiming that he was not Joseph's son, they are only smearing the name of Mary and of Jesus for that matter with the shameful option that Pantera was his
father. And with reason, because there is no place in Judaism for Greek Mythology.

Ben :sorry1:

I agree about the trinity doctrine (hey who would of known we'd agree on something)

When you deny Jesus of his miraculous birth you deny God. Jesus is God of the OT, but He is not the Father. The Father is the invisible God. Christ is the image the Father wanted to portray Himself as. The holy spirit is the power of God, not another entity.

 

[Ben Masada]

I agree about the trinity doctrine (hey who would of known we'd agree on something)

When you deny Jesus of his miraculous birth you deny God. Jesus is God of the OT, but He is not the Father. The Father is the invisible God. Christ is the image the Father wanted to portray Himself as. The holy spirit is the power of God, not another entity.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You must be joking! Tell me you are, because if you are serious, you have no respect for your own intelligence. This is an insult to a thinking person.

Did you know that the Greeks used to claim that Alexander the Great had a miraculous birth
and was son of Zeus? That's much more likely to have happened than to bring their Mythology to Israel and apply it to a Jew. You would not be holding such a belief today if it had not been for a Hellenistic Jew called Paul who fabricated the whole thing, about 30 years after Jesus' death.

Ben )(

 

[AK4]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You must be joking! Tell me you are, because if you are serious, you have no respect for your own intelligence. This is an insult to a thinking person.

Did you know that the Greeks used to claim that Alexander the Great had a miraculous birth
and was son of Zeus? That's much more likely to have happened than to bring their Mythology to Israel and apply it to a Jew. You would not be holding such a belief today if it had not been for a Hellenistic Jew called Paul who fabricated the whole thing, about 30 years after Jesus' death.

Ben )(

Yeah and he linked it all so perfectly to all the OT scriptures. What a genius Paul was. Come on now

 

[Ben Masada]

Yeah and he linked it all so perfectly to all the OT scriptures. What a genius Paul was. Come on now

+++++++++++++++++

Oh! You can definitely say that again! The man was a genius. A genius gone berserk. That's exactly what he and his Gentile disciples did: They plagiarized the Tanach at their heart's content, and fit Jesus wherever they saw feasible to do so
in order build a Messiah of their own.

Ben :clap

 

[AK4]

+++++++++++++++++

Oh! You can definitely say that again! The man was a genius. A genius gone berserk. That's exactly what he and his Gentile disciples did: They plagiarized the Tanach at their heart's content, and fit Jesus wherever they saw feasible to do so
in order build a Messiah of their own.

Ben :clap

I guess. Now you keep waiting on rebuilding that temple so all of you who believe in the judaism religion, can start being forgiven of your sins because for the past 2000 years yall havent been able to sacrifice a sin offering, so you all are steady dying in yall sins. Keep waiting on the spotless red heifer to that just seems to always come up with a spot or two, for some odd apparent reason. (like we dont know why)

 

[Ben Masada]

I guess. Now you keep waiting on rebuilding that temple so all of you who believe in the judaism religion, can start being forgiven of your sins because for the past 2000 years yall havent been able to sacrifice a sin offering, so you all are steady dying in yall sins. Keep waiting on the spotless red heifer to that just seems to always come up with a spot or two, for some odd apparent reason. (like we dont know why)

++++++++++++++++++

Sorry my friend but this post of yours says only that you lack a lot of knowledge of the Scriptures. During 70 years that the Jews were in the Babylonian exile there was no Temple and not a single sacrifice was made. Nevertheless, according to Daniel 9:24, when the exile was over, the transgression was redeemed, the sins that caused the exile were over, reconciliation for our iniquities had been made, and everlasting righteousness had returned to the People. Who effected all that? Our own suffering in exile. I mean, the sufferings of my ancestors.

The same applies to these almost 2,000 years of exile. We are back in our homeland, entering Jerusalem so to speak in a white donkey as a King according to the ancient custom. Our sins that almost two thousand years ago had been as scarlet, have become white as snow. From red like crimson, they have become as wool. Because we have returned willing to obey. (Isa. 1:18,19) Save exceptions of course, which if they don't agree to reason together with the Lord, it will start mounting for the next exile.

Ben:clap

 

[AK4]

++++++++++++++++++

Sorry my friend but this post of yours says only that you lack a lot of knowledge of the Scriptures. During 70 years that the Jews were in the Babylonian exile there was no Temple and not a single sacrifice was made. Nevertheless, according to Daniel 9:24, when the exile was over, the transgression was redeemed, the sins that caused the exile were over, reconciliation for our iniquities had been made, and everlasting righteousness had returned to the People. Who effected all that? Our own suffering in exile. I mean, the sufferings of my ancestors.

The same applies to these almost 2,000 years of exile. We are back in our homeland, entering Jerusalem so to speak in a white donkey as a King according to the ancient custom. Our sins that almost two thousand years ago had been as scarlet, have become white as snow. From red like crimson, they have become as wool. Because we have returned willing to obey. (Isa. 1:18,19) Save exceptions of course, which if they don't agree to reason together with the Lord, it will start mounting for the next exile.

Ben:clap

Everlasting righteousness returned? But then you guys got sent into exile again? Can we say contradiction!!!

This whole post was a contradiction but i will not degrade your religion, but i will just quote the One you/yall rejected....

Ps 118:22 - The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone;
Mt 21:42 - Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
Mr 12:10 - Haven't you read this scripture: "'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone;

 

[Ben Masada]

Everlasting righteousness returned? But then you guys got sent into exile again? Can we say contradiction!!!

This whole post was a contradiction but i will not degrade your religion, but i will just quote the One you/yall rejected....

Ps 118:22 - The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone;
Mt 21:42 - Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
Mr 12:10 - Haven't you read this scripture: "'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone;

+++++++++++++++

That's right: Everlasting Righteousness returned. As I can see, you didn't get the point. Who is Everlasting Righteousness? That's the Almighty God Who returned to His People. What did you think?

Now, with regards to the stone which the bulders rejected, it's Israel, which the empire-builders thought unworthy of a place in their worldly plans. Then, it ended up by being the cornerstone of the building. Let's be serious! How could it be a dead man already two thousand years old? You think it's talking about Jesus because the guy who wrote that gospel plagiarized from Psalm and applied it to Jesus. Use your commonsense for once! :sorry1:

Ben