From 'born again' to agnostic

[Danmac]

Wait, I'm confused. Isn't Jesus God?

Jesus is a manifestation of the Father. The Father is His primary source. The Father has elevated Jesus above Himself. The Holy Ghost is the other manifestation of the Father. Jesus combined with the Holy ghost is the Father. When you have seen Him you have seen the Father. He and His Father are one.

 

[Danmac]

And here you just got done saying that you are for the kind of truth that brings peace of mind.

Pleasure that leads to trouble is an investment that leads to a troubled mind.

 

[jml03]

Well, our friend Danmac says the Bible speaks for itself. If he's right, then one of you is deliberately distorting it.

There is no distortion. We have the freewill to interpret the bible in whatever way we choose. Me, I do not rely on the bible for meaning in my life. I read it. I find hope in some instances. I find courage in others. I find ways to look at my faith & it encourages me to rely more on my Father. I do not abide by the various rules and regulations verbatim. But, I need no man/woman's approval on whether or not I'm 'doing it right'. Honestly, we would have to change our beliefs on a moment to moment basis to coincide with another's. Just look at this thread amongst others here. There is no Christian that believes entirely like the next. And, that's okay. God is still God.

Btw, to me, Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father.

 

[Luminous]

Why then did Jesus pardon the woman caught in adultery, when the Pentateuch commanded her to be stoned to death?

John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

I thought it was agreed that that passage is a farce. it never happened acording to the earlier manuscripts.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Jesus is a manifestation of the Father. The Father is His primary source. The Father has elevated Jesus above Himself. The Holy Ghost is the other manifestation of the Father. Jesus combined with the Holy ghost is the Father. When you have seen Him you have seen the Father. He and His Father are one.

Is that a yes or no?

I'm confused, youve done your usual "type lots of words whilst avoiding answering the question"

-Q

 

[Danmac]

I thought it was agreed that that passage is a farce. it never happened acording to the earlier manuscripts.

Which earlier manuscripts?

 

[The Neo Nerd]

There is no distortion. We have the freewill to interpret the bible in whatever way we choose. Me, I do not rely on the bible for meaning in my life. I read it. I find hope in some instances. I find courage in others. I find ways to look at my faith & it encourages me to rely more on my Father.

What do you find in all the killing?

What do you find in the promise of eternal torture for not believing in god?

-Q

 

[Danmac]

Is that a yes or no?

I'm confused, youve done your usual "type lots of words whilst avoiding answering the question"

-Q

My arm is not me, but it is just as much me as I am. Such is the case with Jesus.

De 9:29 Yet they are thy people and thine inheritance, which thou broughtest out by thy mighty power and by thy stretched out arm.

 

[Autodidact]

Jesus is a manifestation of the Father. The Father is His primary source. The Father has elevated Jesus above Himself. The Holy Ghost is the other manifestation of the Father. Jesus combined with the Holy ghost is the Father. When you have seen Him you have seen the Father. He and His Father are one.

O.K., well in the case Jesus is the guy who did all the stuff in the OT you're trying to ignore. And y'know, the Bible speaks for itself, so that's not really kosher--or honest--is it?

 

[Danmac]

O.K., well in the case Jesus is the guy who did all the stuff in the OT you're trying to ignore. And y'know, the Bible speaks for itself, so that's not really kosher--or honest--is it?

What stuff?

 

[Autodidact]

There is no distortion. We have the freewill to interpret the bible in whatever way we choose. Me, I do not rely on the bible for meaning in my life. I read it. I find hope in some instances. I find courage in others. I find ways to look at my faith & it encourages me to rely more on my Father. I do not abide by the various rules and regulations verbatim. But, I need no man/woman's approval on whether or not I'm 'doing it right'. Honestly, we would have to change our beliefs on a moment to moment basis to coincide with another's. Just look at this thread amongst others here. There is no Christian that believes entirely like the next. And, that's okay. God is still God.

Btw, to me, Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father.

According to Danmac--not me, Danmac--there is no such thing as interpreting the Bible. It speaks for itself. So if you see it differently, according to Danmac, one of you must be distorting it.

I, on the other hand, agree with you. No two Christians believe the same thing.

 

[Autodidact]

What stuff?

Whatever stuff you didn't want to talk about when you demanded only NT actions of Jesus.

 

[jml03]

What do you find in all the killing?

What do you find in the promise of eternal torture for not believing in god?

-Q

For the killing, everything happens for a reason. I am not on a need to know basis. He didn't send me an email to let me know what was up. He kind of works like that, in ways which we can't comprehend from time to time. Maybe one day I will ask, maybe it won't be an issue for me to have to know.

Eternal torture, well, I don't have to worry about it, now do I? Because I do believe. But, I'm not entirely sure that it is this place of fire and brimstone anymore. I have opened up to knew possibilities since joining RF. Someone told me their perspective, then another, and so on.... so I'm not really sure about it right now. AND I have to say, their quoting of Scripture is what has made me pause for thought.

 

[Danmac]

What do you find in the promise of eternal torture for not believing in god?

-Q

The choice has been set before you like it or not.

 

[jml03]

According to Danmac--not me, Danmac--there is no such thing as interpreting the Bible. It speaks for itself. So if you see it differently, according to Danmac, one of you must be distorting it.

I, on the other hand, agree with you. No two Christians believe the same thing.

I see what you are saying. In some instances this is VERY sad. See,not everyone has made up their mind one way or another. And when you pressure someone so much, well, you push them away. If I tried to live up to the written word of the bible - I believe I'd give up. It, to me, is impossible. All this being said, certain ones that ride the fence on the subject - well, they need to find God's purpose for them on their own terms. After they develop a relationship with God, then they can look into Scripture for further guidance, etc. if they so choose. It's just really sad. We will have to answer one day for all of those we helped turn away from or toward God.

 

[Autodidact]

For the killing, everything happens for a reason. I am not on a need to know basis. He didn't send me an email to let me know what was up. He kind of works like that, in ways which we can't comprehend from time to time. Maybe one day I will ask, maybe it won't be an issue for me to have to know.

So basically genocide, infanticide, rape, slavery, all not for you to question, as long as it's your God that's doing it?

Eternal torture, well, I don't have to worry about it, now do I? Because I do believe. [/quote]

And after all, who gives a damn about Mahatma Gandhi or Socrates, right? As long as it's not happening to you. That's the extent of God's mercy.

 

[Autodidact]

The choice has been set before you like it or not.

You keep forgetting that little "I believe" that any HONEST person would include.

 

[Danmac]

Whatever stuff you didn't want to talk about when you demanded only NT actions of Jesus.

When the New Testament church was born, it needed its own body of laws. The Law of Moses was for the purpose of governing a theocracy. The laws contained in the Pentateuch do not belong to the Gentile Church. Jesus gave new instructions to His followers. You know, the love your enemy stuff.:flirt:

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

 

[Luminous]

Which earlier manuscripts?

Well, i was running around RF. and a few people were arguing about stoning women for adultery and the topic came up. and people were saying that they're bible admitted that it could have been a later addition. I just took their word for it. In anycase, I found this: The Bible And Christianity -- The Historical Origins
also, im getting the feeling that my pentacostal friend is saying that in her opinion there is no unforgivable sins... I don't get it. clearly there are two. saying that jesus had a demon in him, or that you have the holy spirit in you when you dont, or saying something ugly about the holy spirit (like that its Gabriel/not, pepending on which is true), or saying there is no holy spirit ; AND...

 

[TEXASBULL]

So basically genocide, infanticide, rape, slavery, all not for you to question, as long as it's your God that's doing it?

Eternal torture, well, I don't have to worry about it, now do I? Because I do believe.

And after all, who gives a damn about Mahatma Gandhi or Socrates, right? As long as it's not happening to you. That's the extent of God's mercy.[/quote]

Also, where are all the Mayans and Aztecs of Mexico and south America who lived before Christ and never heard of the Jewish God? Are these millions in hell? Are they in Heaven?