• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

From 'born again' to agnostic

Eliot Wild

Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
All sins are equal, as she indicated. But there is only one sin that will get a person condemned to Hell.


Oh, and by the way, before anyone asks me about it . . . I never said this all had to make sense. I just said I'd try and explain it. Somehow all sins are equal but still one gets you fried and the others can be forgiven.

Actually, it has been a while since I was in a Southern Baptist church, so I may have not done the explanation justice. Perhaps someone else can make it sound more sensible than me.
 

jml03

Member
So, you are sinning (by smoking in your example). You are unrepentant about that sin (you keep doing it despite knowing it is 1) a sin, 2) unhealthy for you) but you don' t think that you will spend eternity in Hell because of this particular sin, which is no greater than any other sin.

So, how does that work? Here I was under the impression that 'sin is sin' and to be unrepentant about sin was pretty much like slapping god in the face {at least that is what I have gotten out of this and similar threads recently} and was a one way ticket to hell. At least that is the rhetoric that has been used to justify claiming that gays can't be christians.

So is there a list somewhere with what sins you can get cut some slack for, and which ones (other than the whole believing then denying thing) you won't get slack for? Cause, it seems to me, that you are trying to have it both ways. Your smoking is sort of ok, despite 'sin is sin'; but someone else's "sinful" behavior might not be ok?

See that's where people make it so hard. If you would have read, I didn't say I think gay people are going to hell. Not at all! People want to identify their WHOLE relationship with God by the Bible. My relationship is more personal than that - He's my Father in Heaven. Do I believe he disapproves of my smoking? yes, just like my father here does. Do I believe he will disown me for it? no, just like my father here would not. He loves me more than my father on earth. I go with what He tells me in my heart. I don't need Paul, Moses, or anyone besides God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to tell me how to live. The beauty of it is, they do. Everyday.
 

jml03

Member
That is pretty much what I was taught as well. Although it was pretty much taught and accepted that those dang dirty homos were doomed no matter what.

Anyway, the post I responded to seems to imply that there are varying degrees, which is what I was trying to get at. If one believes (as the poster stated) that 'sin is sin' and one is unrepentant in that sin and that is supposed to get you roasted, well, how is the poster justifying smoking being in someway less sinful, than say kicking puppies, or burning down a school?

I am not justifying myself. I need not to you or anyone, and thats the WHOLE point. I need not give justification to any man/woman on the face of this earth. I have to only talk to One. I don't have to live my life, so in fear, as some of the biblical writers have implied we should. God does not represent fear to me. I am implying that all sin is sin, but just because someone wrote that I will spend eternity in the Lake of fire for it - well quite frankly, I don't have to buy into it.

Say you've go two kids - boy & girl. You tell the girl to have her brother finish the dishes before you get back or he's grounded. The girl tells the boy "finish the dishes or your getting the belt" - now, did she do it to get the point emphasized? Maybe. Did she say the consequences would be so harsh because she was mad at the brother? DOES IT MATTER? I talk to my Father everyday so I need not rely on only the words of the Bible to know what is right.
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

Who the heck would want to inherit such a tainted 'kingdom of god' if that was his evil attitude?

Not homosexuals or sexually immoral that’s for sure.
Who would like to share space with those that corrupt their body with practices that are against nature? Christians believe that we won’t have to share the kingdom with such people so don’t worry you won’t be there, we believe that we will receive an incorruptible body after our judgement.
1Cr 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

There is no way that you will be there unless you repent.
Mar 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."
 

Misty

Well-Known Member
Not homosexuals or sexually immoral that’s for sure.
Who would like to share space with those that corrupt their body with practices that are against nature? Christians believe that we won’t have to share the kingdom with such people so don’t worry you won’t be there, we believe that we will receive an incorruptible body after our judgement.
1Cr 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

There is no way that you will be there unless you repent.
Mar 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

I wouldn't want to be there with people who think as you do, I doubt any decent deity would want to be with you either, or Jesus!
 

jml03

Member
When I was a Baptist, the belief was that any and all unrepentant sins will get you cast into Hell. It didn't matter how great or how small the sin, because all sins were equal before the eyes of God.

To repent is to feel sorry for one's actions and change one's life for the better. Thus you sin, repent, and turn away from the sin. There will be another to take it's place because there was only One who was without sin. Our "righteousness is as filthy rags". There is no way we can abide by every law in the bible, and if someone says they are, I'd have trouble believing them.

For me, God did not intend for us to only seek Him through the written word. He wants us to be like Moses, to talk to Him, to disagree, basically all the fundamentals of a human relationship - with the exception, His is the Final Authority.
 

Misty

Well-Known Member
To repent is to feel sorry for one's actions and change one's life for the better. Thus you sin, repent, and turn away from the sin. There will be another to take it's place because there was only One who was without sin. Our "righteousness is as filthy rags". There is no way we can abide by every law in the bible, and if someone says they are, I'd have trouble believing them.

For me, God did not intend for us to only seek Him through the written word. He wants us to be like Moses, to talk to Him, to disagree, basically all the fundamentals of a human relationship - with the exception, His is the Final Authority.

The Jesus of the Bible appeared to have faults and failings just like the rest of us, he certainly doesn't come over as perfect by any means.
 

jtartar

Well-Known Member
I was unfortunate enough to have been brought up in a fundamentalist Christian home (pentecostal). The pressure to get 'saved' was great even from a young age. I was told at six years old that if Jesus came I would be left behind, which of course is abusive. I had a sadistic grandmother who took pleasure in telling me from the age of two about the tortures of hell for naughty little girls like me! I held out until I was eleven before giving into the pressure and 'giving my heart to Jesus'! I was even devout for a while and embarrassingly trotted out the cliches so beloved of fundamentalist Christians. However, before long the doubts assailed themselves overwhelmingly, and thankfully by the time I married at 19 my faith slipped away, which was a relief. I am firmly of the opinion that the fundamentalist Christian dogma 'only the saved go to heaven the rest to hell', is a silly nonsense and can be very abusive too.

Misty,
I am very glat to see that you put yourself in the category of Agnostic and not atheist. I know you still believe in a supreme being!!!
Just a paul reason with the people of his day, I would like to reason with you for afew minutes, Acts 17:2,17, 18:19, Eph 5:17.
To start off, I want to tell you that your parents were trying to put you on the road to life, even though they were misguided. They had listened to the vast majority of the religious teachers of today, who try to frighten people into belief. The problem is their teachings are not from God so they have no real weight. Consider Heb 4:12, which says that the word of God is alive and powerful. If what they taught you was right it would have become real truth to you, and it would ahve changed you into a lover of God, and His son, Jesus.
The problem was you never PROVED TO YOURSELF what God requires of all of us, Rom 12:2, 1Thes 5:21. The way your parents taught you, it seemed that the Bible kept you from happiness. This is the opposite of truth, the Bible has rules to protect you from harm, because no man knows the right way, without God, Jere 10:23. Notice how John puts this principle at 1John 5:3,4. Consider also what Isaiah recorded, Isa 48:17,18, also Ps 32:8,9, DEUT 10:12,13.
If what people teach about God is not accurrate, the words they say have no power to change your beliefs and your life. My word has no more authority than yours or anyone elses. All authority comes from God, because He cares for you, and He knows all things, 1Pet 5:7, Job 37:16.
One thing that most people teach is the promise of heaven to all those who obey God. This is false, God never promise mankind in general, Heaven. God made the earth for men, and they will live forever on earth, Isa 45:18, Ps 37:29. When Jesus was on earth he taught that he would resurrect both the righteous and the unrighteous back to life on earth, John 5:28,29, Acts 24:15.
God has determined to take a small number of people who have lived on earth to heaven to be Kings and Priests of the ones who are resurrected, and also the ones who will live through the Great Tribulation, Rev 5:9,10, 14:1-5, 20:4-6, 7::14.
There is something even more important about the generation that we are living in. This generation will be alive when Jesus returns to earth. Thgis means that we are the only generation that ever lived that can live on and NEVER die, because when Jesus come back to earth his Great Ransom Sacrifice wil then be in full force, Adamic Death that we inherited from Adam, will never take another life, Matt 24:34 explains that the things we are seeing today all point to the generation that will be alive when Jesus returns. The first verses of Matt chapter 24 tell about the things to look for. Luke 21:31,33, also tell that the things that Jesus said to watch for would be the sign that would point to that generation as being the one Jesus would return in.
Everything Jesus said to watch for is coming true today and on an unprecedented scale, so that there could be no doubt as to which generation Jesus was talking about, Wars, earthquakes, famine, pestilences, all on a scale never before experienced.
If you want to survive along with your offspring, you will look into God's word, and this time with a little more experience try to understand that God is going to make this earth a paradise, and is opening His hand to satisfy the desires of every living thing, Luke 23:43, Ps 145:16, Deut 30:17-20. God wants all to be there, but He does not force anyone to obey Him, 2Pet 3:7-10, 1Pet 5:6,7.
 

jml03

Member
The Jesus of the Bible appeared to have faults and failings just like the rest of us, he certainly doesn't come over as perfect by any means.

How so? What were His faults? Loving someone who clearly hated/hates him?
 

Misty

Well-Known Member
I know you still believe in a supreme being

You know nothing of the sort!:no:


How so? What were His faults? Loving someone who clearly hated/hates him?

Jesus had a nasty temper for a start. What business of his was it to kick the money changers out of the Temple? That was for the Temple authorities. He had a hissy fit when the fig tree had no fruit, even though it was out of season. He somehow managed to chase a herd of pigs over a cliff, I bet the owner was thrilled! He told people to hate their relatives and like him better etc, etc!
 

it's_sam

Freak of Nature
Jesus had a nasty temper for a start. What business of his was it to kick the money changers out of the Temple? That was for the Temple authorities. He had a hissy fit when the fig tree had no fruit, even though it was out of season. He somehow managed to chase a herd of pigs over a cliff, I bet the owner was thrilled! He told people to hate their relatives and like him better etc, etc!
How can we help you misty when all you want to see is discrepency?
 

it's_sam

Freak of Nature
You talk like you knew you would have done better with what they faced. Someone in your line of thinking was usualy being flauged right now in hopes youl repent. Times were different and you think he was doing bad? WHO WAS DOING BETTER!?!?! It was before ALL of us misty you just want to prove to yourself everyone else is amatuer.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
Those people not only claimed to be better than you, who learnt from them, They were your betters.

And now I am their better, at least professionally as you`ve posited.

I am now superior in my chosen career to those who taught me the skills needed to do it.

Do you know why?

Because I questioned their dogma, their black & white doctrine and discovered superior methods of performing my trade.
Methods they would never have discovered due to their rigid minds.

I am better than they were because I thought for myself and didn`t keep to their dogma simply because it was the accepted doctrine.
 

jml03

Member
Jesus had a nasty temper for a start. What business of his was it to kick the money changers out of the Temple? That was for the Temple authorities. He had a hissy fit when the fig tree had no fruit, even though it was out of season. He somehow managed to chase a herd of pigs over a cliff, I bet the owner was thrilled! He told people to hate their relatives and like him better etc, etc!

Regarding the temple remark, is it okay so sell pornography in schools? no, it is wrong. Should I wait until the superintendent of the school does something? no, it is my right to say something. Do the perpetrators have to listen? no, and if they did not believe Jesus had no authority, they would not have.

Jesus had a hissy fit? That just sounds ridiculous.

As far as him "chasing a herd of pigs" where does it say that he chased them? If you believe that some of the bible is not true or inaccurate, what do you use to base your feelings on about a certain figure in it? You used the word chase regarding the pig, thus you put your own words in it. He cast "Legion" out of the man and into the swine. If you do not believe what is written, that he did that - then how can you believe He even chased the pigs. If you don't believe in any of it - then there were no pigs, thus Jesus didn't do anything wrong in your eyes, thus you have no basis to dislike or like Him.
 

it's_sam

Freak of Nature
Who said I want help? Not me! If there are discrepancies I will point them out.
Then what are you doing here? you take no direction from anyone, you have no beleifs to offer anyone for religious guidance. You pipe up when you disagree and thats it. Its overly obvious to all of us you have been circling your beleifs and never catching on because you "dont have to". So maybe you can tell me your goal in these forums to help ME understand your place?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Misty,
I am very glat to see that you put yourself in the category of Agnostic and not atheist. I know you still believe in a supreme being!!!
Just a paul reason with the people of his day, I would like to reason with you for afew minutes, Acts 17:2,17, 18:19, Eph 5:17.

:popcorn:
 

it's_sam

Freak of Nature
I think Jtartar really put alot of thought into putting that together for misty, and it's even sadder that she shrugs all our effort off like it was an annoying breeze. I heard your words Jtartar and it was a awsome compilation of scripture.
 

it's_sam

Freak of Nature
I know im overstepping my usual donkeyness. But it just feels like the only satisfaction misty if getting from this is that she can feel like she is saving people from some harmfull religious plague. It is a infection but only because once you catch it you NEVER want to turn back. Again "self evident"
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Who would like to share space with those that corrupt their body with practices that are against nature? Christians believe that we won’t have to share the kingdom with such people so don’t worry you won’t be there, we believe that we will receive an incorruptible body after our judgement.
Don't worry. I don't want to share space for eternity with someone with that attitude anyways. Your kingdom simply won't be big enough to get far away enough from such an attitude.
 
Top