From 'born again' to agnostic

[Duck]

Just out of curiosity, why would you learn and read so much about the bible, koran, torah, etc. if you believe that it is all false? I am not being sarcastic, but really, why?

"Know thy enemy"

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The Bible is your enemy? Isn't that a bit over-dramatic?

 

[Duck]

The Bible is your enemy? Isn't that a bit over-dramatic?

Nah, not the bible per se, but the bigots that can't think without it.

 

[Luminous]

Allegorically the rod represent correction that can be verbal (counselling) if we don’t counsel our children we spoil them.

This is specifically directed to ignorance and is an admonition to husband as it said let them (women) ask their husband at home, that they should get information from their husband before speaking nonsense or gossips.
Pro 31:23 Her husband is respected at the city gate, where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.
Pro 31:26 She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
1Cr 14:35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
Did your father allowed your mother to speak in your church? Did your pastor allowed them?


Do you know to whom were this things directed to?
Were your parent Orthodox Jews?
Read the tittle of the thread. Born again refers to Christian none of this is preach in Christian Churches.


No is not the case, if you are gay and don’t repent and change you life style and dei in your sin you are lost to the kingdom that God has promised.
I got into this because I read that someone said that gay can be Christian and I always have refused to lie to them, they can't unless you repent you cannot be a Christian and enter God kingdom.

:sarcastic: hmmmm, yes. and it is also obvious that since in my world view God would never go around murdering people, the part where he drowns all the kings horses and all the kings men of the Egyptian kingdom is also allegorical. what actually happended was that a wave of kindness sweaped through their hearts and they changed their minds about exterminating the rebel slaves.

If we all went around interpreting idol scripture to our whims, then we might make our religion become largely denominized...and make it obvious to our enemies [or those that do not understand us] that we know not of what we speak, and are thus merely blaspheming the truth of our agnosticism and making hypocrites out of eachother.

 

[emiliano]

No is not the case, if you are gay and don’t repent and change you life style and dei in your sin you are lost to the kingdom that God has promised.
I got into this because I read that someone said that gay can be Christian and I always have refused to lie to them, they can't unless you repent you cannot be a Christian and enter God kingdom.

I find it hard to believe any decent person can accept a dogma as evil as yours!

Why is it hard to understand?
Do you know who founded that Christian Church and what it has to say about homosexuality?
The Christian church statutes are those that the Apostle Paul gave TO the Church and is so clear that homosexual that refuse to change can not be part of the Church.
1Cr 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, [fn] nor sodomites,
And the call to repentance and the solution is here
1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
So saying that you were taught by your Church that all homosexual are going to go to hell is a dramatic lie.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
If you want to be a member of a Christian church you must comply with it statutes or find some other religion, they don‘t want you.

 

[emiliano]

:sarcastic: hmmmm, yes. and it is also obvious that since in my world view God would never go around murdering people, the part where he drowns all the kings horses and all the kings men of the Egyptian kingdom is also allegorical. what actually happended was that a wave of kindness sweaped through their hearts and they changed their minds about exterminating the rebel slaves.

If we all went around interpreting idol scripture to our whims, then we might make our religion become largely denominized...and make it obvious to our enemies [or those that do not understand us] that we know not of what we speak, and are thus merely blaspheming the truth of our agnosticism and making hypocrites out of eachother.

All that this means is that not all passages of the Bible must be interpreted literally, anyhow it is easy to identify which ones are literal and which one are allegorical.
For example the sowrd, word and the rod of correction, as I often say seek your answers in the word of God and ask for revelation, I am sure that what was commanded to the ancient Israelites was for them to keep in the land that God gave them, I don’t know of any Jewish church that preaches that they can kill their disobedient children. Do you?
I like your take on “what actually happened was that a wave of kindness swiped through their hearts and they changed their minds about exterminating the rebel slaves“. It could be just that. In your opinion what was the message and the purpose of preserving this passage? What it is important is what can teach us.

 

[Autodidact]

I you bear in mind that emiliano is actually a Paulist rather than a Christian, his views are easier to understand.

 

[emiliano]

I you bear in mind that emiliano is actually a Paulist rather than a Christian, his views are easier to understand.

No I am not, I just happen to know that the Christian statues were set by the Apostle Paul, I understand that you have an interest in taken only parts of what the Bible says about homosexual. Are the Epistles God inspire?
I believe they are and are bases for our statutes.
1Cr 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

somebody attracted to same sex: somebody who is sexually attracted to members of his or her own sex
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

 

[Misty]

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

Who the heck would want to inherit such a tainted 'kingdom of god' if that was his evil attitude?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No I am not, I just happen to know that the Christian statues were set by the Apostle Paul, I understand that you have an interest in taken only parts of what the Bible says about homosexual. Are the Epistles God inspire?

Paul is not Jesus though. Jesus was a very good man, or at least character if he didn't exist. Paul OTOH was very hateful, very bigoted, and just was not a good person. Why would you want an establishment founded by a man who taught unconditional love for almost anyone, to have it taken over by a man who taught hatred and bigotry?

1Cr 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

Keep it then. I want nothing to do with some god or his kingdom if I can't love who I want to. I'd rather go to hell for being who I am than go to a heaven and be miserable for being who I am not. That sounds more like hell to me.

 

[sandandfoam]

Paul is not Jesus though. Jesus was a very good man, or at least character if he didn't exist. Paul OTOH was very hateful, very bigoted, and just was not a good person. Why would you want an establishment founded by a man who taught unconditional love for almost anyone, to have it taken over by a man who taught hatred and bigotry?


Keep it then. I want nothing to do with some god or his kingdom if I can't love who I want to. I'd rather go to hell for being who I am than go to a heaven and be miserable for being who I am not. That sounds more like hell to me.

I agree with you.
When I look back over Christianity I see a thread of tolerance and gentleness stretching back to Christ and flowing from Him. It has been opposed almost from the outset.
This non-violent Christianity has always been seen by the 'mainstream' as radical and subversive. From the Gnostics and the Cathars to the Quakers and others in modern times.
Any who would espouse hatred or intolerance are completely missing the point imho

 

[jml03]

Love the sinner, hate the sin. So, no matter what I believe whether something is a sin, I am to love whomever is sinful, not condemn them for it(judge), and most importantly PRAY for them.

I smoke, even though I feel it's not the best thing for me to do. That, according to the word, is sinful because I am harming my temple. Therefore, since no sin is greater than another, save 1, I am just as sinful as ANYONE else. But on some things, like smoking for instance, I believe God may allow me to get sick or have some breathing issues, etc. for the harm I inflict on myself. I do not believe I will spend eternity in Hell because of it. It hurts my testimony as to what God has done for me - kind of hard to talk to some kids about God and say "hold on, I need a smoke" but, I'm not perfect. I am a work in progress. This should apply to anything a Christian feels is a sin.

 

[Duck]

Love the sinner, hate the sin. So, no matter what I believe whether something is a sin, I am to love whomever is sinful, not condemn them for it(judge), and most importantly PRAY for them.

I smoke, even though I feel it's not the best thing for me to do. That, according to the word, is sinful because I am harming my temple. Therefore, since no sin is greater than another, save 1, I am just as sinful as ANYONE else. But on some things, like smoking for instance, I believe God may allow me to get sick or have some breathing issues, etc. for the harm I inflict on myself. I do not believe I will spend eternity in Hell because of it. It hurts my testimony as to what God has done for me - kind of hard to talk to some kids about God and say "hold on, I need a smoke" but, I'm not perfect. I am a work in progress. This should apply to anything a Christian feels is a sin.

So, you are sinning (by smoking in your example). You are unrepentant about that sin (you keep doing it despite knowing it is 1) a sin, 2) unhealthy for you) but you don' t think that you will spend eternity in Hell because of this particular sin, which is no greater than any other sin.

So, how does that work? Here I was under the impression that 'sin is sin' and to be unrepentant about sin was pretty much like slapping god in the face {at least that is what I have gotten out of this and similar threads recently} and was a one way ticket to hell. At least that is the rhetoric that has been used to justify claiming that gays can't be christians.

So is there a list somewhere with what sins you can get cut some slack for, and which ones (other than the whole believing then denying thing) you won't get slack for? Cause, it seems to me, that you are trying to have it both ways. Your smoking is sort of ok, despite 'sin is sin'; but someone else's "sinful" behavior might not be ok?

 

[Autodidact]

No I am not, I just happen to know that the Christian statues were set by the Apostle Paul, I understand that you have an interest in taken only parts of what the Bible says about homosexual.[on the contrary, there is no part if the Bible that prohibits lesbianism, so I don't need to ugnore anything.

Are the Epistles God inspire?

Of course not, silly, there is no God.
I believe they are and are bases for our statutes.

1Cr 6:9

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

You might want to read that again in the original Greek. It most certainly does not include any women, and does not even mean "gay men." It means effete boy-toys.

 

[Autodidact]

Love the sinner, hate the sin. So, no matter what I believe whether something is a sin, I am to love whomever is sinful, not condemn them for it(judge), and most importantly PRAY for them.

I smoke, even though I feel it's not the best thing for me to do. That, according to the word, is sinful because I am harming my temple. Therefore, since no sin is greater than another, save 1, I am just as sinful as ANYONE else. But on some things, like smoking for instance, I believe God may allow me to get sick or have some breathing issues, etc. for the harm I inflict on myself. I do not believe I will spend eternity in Hell because of it. It hurts my testimony as to what God has done for me - kind of hard to talk to some kids about God and say "hold on, I need a smoke" but, I'm not perfect. I am a work in progress. This should apply to anything a Christian feels is a sin.

You are the refreshing alternative to hypocritical Christians who point the finger at others while skipping merrily over their own failure to comply with their own religious dictates. Honesty is good witnessing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So, how does that work? Here I was under the impression that 'sin is sin' and to be unrepentant about sin was pretty much like slapping god in the face {at least that is what I have gotten out of this and similar threads recently} and was a one way ticket to hell. At least that is the rhetoric that has been used to justify claiming that gays can't be christians.

When I was a Baptist, the belief was that any and all unrepentant sins will get you cast into Hell. It didn't matter how great or how small the sin, because all sins were equal before the eyes of God.

 

[Duck]

When I was a Baptist, the belief was that any and all unrepentant sins will get you cast into Hell. It didn't matter how great or how small the sin, because all sins were equal before the eyes of God.

That is pretty much what I was taught as well. Although it was pretty much taught and accepted that those dang dirty homos were doomed no matter what.

Anyway, the post I responded to seems to imply that there are varying degrees, which is what I was trying to get at. If one believes (as the poster stated) that 'sin is sin' and one is unrepentant in that sin and that is supposed to get you roasted, well, how is the poster justifying smoking being in someway less sinful, than say kicking puppies, or burning down a school?

 

[waitasec]

It is funny how we think babies can understand what accepting jesus into their heart really means...heck at the age of 3, 4, 5 ,6, 7 and even 8 they still believe in santa, why not? But what we overlook is how this image of a god in our minds have been formed through our own experiences because thats all we have really have. This all knowing supreme being the creator of EVERYTHING has favorites...the chosen ones, predestined perhaps (which brings up the idea of free will---my favorite subject )
It's all rather silly really, I was brought up in this nonsense BUT I'm glad I did because now I can UNDERSTAND what fear causes and now I can recognize it ... for the most part

 

[Misty]

Using fear to get children to believe is abusive and evil. i think 'spiritual' abuse should be as much a crime as physical and sexual abuse.

 

[Eliot Wild]

That is pretty much what I was taught as well. Although it was pretty much taught and accepted that those dang dirty homos were doomed no matter what.

Anyway, the post I responded to seems to imply that there are varying degrees, which is what I was trying to get at. If one believes (as the poster stated) that 'sin is sin' and one is unrepentant in that sin and that is supposed to get you roasted, well, how is the poster justifying smoking being in someway less sinful, than say kicking puppies, or burning down a school?

I got this. "Sinning, for a thousand, Alex."

I was actually taught something very similar to jml03 while being raised Southern Baptist. Here is how it was expained to me:

All sins are equal, as she indicated. But there is only one sin that will get a person condemned to Hell. That is the "sin against the Holy Spirit": rejecting Christ as one's personal Lord and Savior.

There are various ways of describing this action which is the unforgivable sin. Failure to be born again . . . Rejecting Christ . . . basically, for an individual to be "saved", one must recognize they're a sinner who cannot save themselves and recognize that they can only be purified/santified to God through the sacrifice of Jesus, then they must pray to God acknowledging Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, be Baptised thereby making public acknowledgement of their decision to accept and follow Christ, and repent all one's old sin and commit to try and not sin in the future. Or something like that. Also, I may have the order of things a bit out of whack and obviously you will find many different views on what is and isn't necessary in this "process", even differing views among common sects, such as the Baptists.

But, that is how it was taught to me. So, essentially, smoking a cigarette is ever bit as much a violation in God's eyes as killing another person, as they both are sins that go against God's Divine Will. However, if one accepts Christ, they can be forgiven of any transgression and therefore remain on God's good side; they just have to ask forgiveness now and again. Rejecting Christ is the only thing that brings the sentence of Hell.

Oh, by the way, kicking puppies is not a sin; that's actually a favored past time in heaven.