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From the neutral country - Switzerland

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
Let's take it one issue at a time. We were talking about 'fat Bin Laden', and there are some points I raised that you have not addressed.

This rebutal I have read it long ago, but could not remember where until I spend some time searching for it, Mr. Spinkle, please read the entire article and then let me know where did this article go wrong

http://www.physics911.net/kevinbarrett
About the author

Dr Barrett holds a PhD in Arabic, with a focus on Islamic studies, from the University of Wisconsin at Madison. He is cofounder of the Muslim-Christian-Jewish Alliance for 9/11 Truth: http://mujca.com
 

FatMan

Well-Known Member
Conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy, aren't you tired of blaming everything onto conspiracy theories, and tell us some of the non-conspiracy truth?

I've provided as much "non-conspiracy truth" as you. A sum total of zero.

But you are a master of delusion, you have that going for you.
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
Some one posted this question in one of the thread of 9/11, why no whistle blowers, or you cannot run this conspiracy with so many people without one of them blowing the whistle. I was going over some of Michael Moore's stuff, and found this to be interesting reply:

Moore appeared briefly in Alex Jones's 2005 film Martial Law 9/11: Rise of the Police State. Jones prompts Moore for an answer as to why he did not mention any of the real issues about the September 11 attacks in his film Fahrenheit 9/11. Specifically, why Moore did not mention why NORAD stood down. Moore's reply was simply, "Because it would be Un-American."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Moore
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
But I notice that he wears a ring in this video as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dls5JTD-uG0&mode=related&search=
Here's a photo of him wearing a ring: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bin_laden_12_27a.jpg

This one shows that bin Laden has the habit of taking off his ring, put it back and so on for the photographer filming him laughing away talking about 911

http://www.welfarestate.com/wtc/faketape/

I have not check the authenticity of the claim and the segment shown in the above web link.
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
New proof that the WTC7 was purposely brought down. The world "pull it" come out from the horse's mouth, and was later denied, and much debate has been going on denying that the phase "pull it" meant demolish the building by explosive or other means, but meaning getting the fireman out of the building. Now BBC said pull it means demolish the building:

Work to pull it down was held up by a labour dispute last year as well as by the search for remains of 9/11 victims, which was finally completed in June.
BBC NEWS | Americas | Lethal blaze at Twin Towers site
 

yossarian22

Resident Schizophrenic
Of course there must be a US government conspiracy to kill 3000 American citizens. Ignore how unlikely it is for something like this to have not been leaked.
The conspiracy theories are idiotic. There are so many easier ways to start a war other than this.
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
Of course there must be a US government conspiracy to kill 3000 American citizens. Ignore how unlikely it is for something like this to have not been leaked.
The conspiracy theories are idiotic. There are so many easier ways to start a war other than this.

Your comments have been addressed many times before :D
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/55185-reason-why-no-9-11-whistle.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/north-american-politics/53586-no-plane-hit-pentagon.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...feez-mosaddeq-ahmed-conspiracy-nut-whaco.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...tion-misinformation-definitions-examples.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...3299-nearly-4-10-americans-still-believe.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/52512-conspiracy-ranking.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...447-why-president-bush-still-not-charged.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...54-harping-9-11-conspiracy-after-viewing.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/48383-bbc-lying.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...8302-nist-wtc7-conspiracy-disinformation.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/48247-try-you-conspiractor-theory-haters.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/46973-you-can-help-prevent-another-9-a.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/44918-do-you-know-your-own-conspirator.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/46649-saudi-government-had-ties-9-11-a.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/42658-why-do-i-keep-talking-about.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/43367-israels-involvement-9-11-a.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/39045-9-11-man-behind-lord-rotschild.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...241-wtc-7-own-story-controled-demolition.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...1813-four-interpretations-9-11-david-ray.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/42414-jews-did-wtc.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-end-byu-professor-steven-jones-jounrney.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-if-robert-kennedy-murder-can-conspiracy.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/40226-who-behind-9-11-a.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/36953-only-10-per-cent-believe-9-a.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-did-bush-rice-withold-information-about.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...9320-9-11-conspiracy-theorist-infighting.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/38678-poor-professor-jones.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...67-trojan-horses-loony-conspiricism-meme.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/north-american-politics/38273-if-9-11-inside-job.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/38357-pentagon-conspiracy-debunk-cnn.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/38156-abc-9-11-docudrama.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/38201-why-does-msm-now-report-conspiracy.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...esting-details-about-production-abcs-9-a.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-fascist-black-propaganda-against-9-11-a.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/37838-9-11-debate-do-not-miss.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/29586-9-11-surprised-hear-me.html

and many many more threads.
 

yossarian22

Resident Schizophrenic
So the reason it was not leaked, was because..?
What?
Your argument makes no sense at all.
There was no 9/11 whistle-blower because an anonymous witness in a case had his name revealed?
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
So the reason it was not leaked, was because..?
What?
Your argument makes no sense at all.
There was no 9/11 whistle-blower because an anonymous witness in a case had his name revealed?

Do I have to repeat every argument that has already been sorted out in RF in the past two years or so? Do some reading of the threads I provided, do not be lazy.:p
 

yossarian22

Resident Schizophrenic
Do I have to repeat every argument that has already been sorted out in RF in the past two years or so? Do some reading of the threads I provided, do not be lazy.:p
I just read the article in your original post.
And so what? Do you actually think that NONE of the thousands of people who would have to work on it would have not said anything?
All you did was show how difficult it is to blow the whistle on something.
Hell, you did not even show that. you showed it is difficult to anonymously blow the whistle
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
I just read the article in your original post.
And so what? Do you actually think that NONE of the thousands of people who would have to work on it would have not said anything?
All you did was show how difficult it is to blow the whistle on something.
Hell, you did not even show that. you showed it is difficult to anonymously blow the whistle

When I find time, I shall go through the old posts to find the exact answer demanded by you.
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
This is one of the reasons:

Some one posted this question in one of the thread of 9/11, why no whistle blowers, or you cannot run this conspiracy with so many people without one of them blowing the whistle. I was going over some of Michael Moore's stuff, and found this to be interesting reply:



Moore appeared briefly in Alex Jones's 2005 film Martial Law 9/11: Rise of the Police State. Jones prompts Moore for an answer as to why he did not mention any of the real issues about the September 11 attacks in his film Fahrenheit 9/11. Specifically, why Moore did not mention why NORAD stood down. Moore's reply was simply, "Because it would be Un-American."

Michael Moore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
This is another one (fear of being persecuted and lose job etc):

Members and movement attacked from several directions

Madison, WI (PRWEB) September 9, 2006 --- Three professors who are members of Scholars for 9/11 Truth have been threatened with the loss of their positions for their research and teaching about the events of 9/11. Other attacks are coming from national magazines, such as TIME and U.S. NEWS, which have cover-stories this week suggesting that those who believe 9/11 involved a conspiracy may need psychological counseling. In addition, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and Popular Mechanics have published pieces intended to bolster the official account of 9/11.
</H1>http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/P...e20060909.html
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
And you may want to read the entire article in this web page, before asking any more questions:

9-11 Review: Intimidation

and perhaps review this web page as well, some points reproduced below:

Doesn't the government-conspiracy view of the attack necessitate the involvement of large numbers of people?

Not in the execution of the attack. In fact there are plausible scenarios that involve fewer conspirators than the official story. High-ranking officials in the government have at their disposal several things that Osama bin Laden did not, including advanced weapons systems operable by computer, and a hierarchical and compartmentalized military command structure that allows complex operations to be hidden from all but a small group of operatives. The speculative scenario outlined in Attack Scenario 404 explains how the attack might have been carried out by as few as twelve individuals.


How could even a small number of people be persuaded to participate in such a horrific plan?

Money is very persuasive, and given the magnitude of the economic interests riding on the success of the attack (measurable in hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars), huge sums could have bought people's cooperation. Some operatives may have been misled about the scope and cruelty of the plan. For example, operatives who set up the Pentagon attack may have been unaware of the planned World Trade Center attack and vice versa. People who installed explosives in the towers may have believed they were preparing the buildings for demolition under circumstances quite different than the 9/11/01 attack.


How is it that none of the conspirators have changed their minds and come forward, allowing the story to remain invisible in the mass media for more than four years?

Operatives would be carefully screened to assure their loyalty to the attack's planners and to each other. Given the magnitude of the crime, admission of involvement would expose a conspirator to swift silencing by co-conspirators, vigilante justice by an outraged public, or harsh judgment by a court of law. It is also possible that many of the operatives could have been killed before or during the attack.


How is it that no one who was NOT involved -- but who happened to be close enough to see evidence and draw the right conclusions -- has come forward either?

Appearances that there are no such witnesses are deceptive. For example, firefighters reported explosions in the towers, but official transcripts of their statements were purged of all such references. The objections of many people to the destruction of Ground Zero evidence was not widely reported. Coverage has also been sparse on the lawsuits by some of the victims' families.


How could the conspirators have been confident enough to plan such a complex attack given the risk of exposure by witnesses who saw too much?

The key to success was to make the attack so bold and shocking that even people who were involved in covering it up (like leaders in the media, FEMA, FBI, etc.) would fall for the fraud. The FBI agents running around seizing video around the Pentagon may have thought they were covering up a war-game-gone-bad. Architects of the massive evidence destruction operation at Ground Zero may have thought they were shielding the building's designers from charges of faulty engineering. Layers of cover stories allow people abetting the scam to think they are covering up less serious crimes.


In spite of the consolidation of ownership of the media, wouldn't there at least be some reporters and editors willing to expose the scam to make names for themselves?

To seriously investigate the 9/11/01 attack, reporters and editors have to question the basic tenets of the official story. Such questioning, while widespread on the web, continues to be heresy in newsrooms. For reporters to acknowledge the larger implications of the attack being an inside job, they would have to question much of what they have been taught since childhood about the beneficence of our leaders and the nobility of our government and economic system. Such a "Matrix"-like awakening can involve a great deal of painful disillusionment. The small group of wealthy people who own and control the media are not inclined to question the OBL myth since that myth shifts responsibility away from the real perpetrators, whom they associate with.


Many of the questions in this FAQ are answered in much greater depth in Where Are the 9/11 Whistleblowers?, an essay by Gregg Roberts.
9-11 Research: Frequently Asked Questions: Conspiracy

Where are the 9/11 Whistleblowers by Gregg Roberts
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
I think it is useful to review your own psychological state and view when you look at the event of 9/11 by reading this article:

http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/2007/FaultyTowersofBeliefPart_I.pdf

&#8220;If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil
deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and
destroy them. But the line between good and evil cuts through the heart of
every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?&#8221;
- Aleksander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

Imagine for a moment that you are trying to discuss the 9/11 truth movement with
a family member, friend, or even a colleague, and are met with remarkable resistance (of
course if you are reading this, you most likely do not need to use your imagination). On
the rare occasion, perhaps you&#8217;ve heard, &#8220;Hmm, that&#8217;s interesting, tell me more.&#8221; More
likely though, merely the mention of alternative theories of the events has of 9/11 drawn
dismissal, joking, or even ire: &#8220;I don&#8217;t listen to conspiracy theories,&#8221; &#8220;Yeah I&#8217;ve heard
some really crazy stories that the government did it,&#8221; or &#8220;How dare you mock the victims
of 9/11!&#8221; You begin to wonder, why are some people less willing to examine all of the
events of 9/11 than others? Is it really because they are obstinate or in denial? Is it
because they are apathetic or judiciously lazy? Or perhaps is it because they are
uninformed or purposely misinformed? Are there any other explanations? These are all
very important questions to be explored if all of the properly investigated facts and
evidence of 9/11 are ever going to reach the forefront of public consciousness.
Hence, the purpose of this article is to review relevant scientific studies of the
cognitive, emotional, and behavioral processes that arise in response to information that
contradicts the deep-seated beliefs that people have about 9/11. If we can better
understand the reasons why people are not willing to investigate and evaluate other
possibilities we should be better able to proceed in a more informed manner and engage
others in more productive discussions of the factual events of September 11th 2001. We
need to find ways to encourage awareness of all of the events related to 9/11, along with
open discussion and debate with as many people as possible &#8211; as soon as possible. There
are many people who, if they could recognize and overcome some of the psychological
blocks to exploring alternate accounts of the events of 9/11, could greatly contribute to
Journal of 9/11 Studies Manwell June 2007 3
the impetus for a new and truly independent international investigation. In fact, after
hundreds of hours of careful consideration, this is how the author was able to reach such
conclusions herself &#8211; by the willingness to explore her own psychological biases and
errors in evaluating the events of 9/11, and thus to be better able to objectively evaluate
the evidence. To be able to report information as a behavioral neuroscientist, I rely on the
research method, but as a person who is just as susceptible to bias and error in reasoning
as everyone else, I must also be vigilant that my worldviews are always examined
alongside my scientific views:
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
For those who shrugged their shoulder and said, "Ah, another conspiracy theory posted by GC, hasn't he gone tired of doing this?" I hope you will read this recent article:
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/2007/ManwellFaultyTowersofBeliefPartII.pdf

Deconstructing the &#8220;Conspiracy Theory&#8221; Label Non Sequitur
Numerous scholars from divergent disciplines have already &#8220;debunked&#8221; non
sequitur labels, such as &#8220;conspiracy theory/theorist,&#8221; as mechanisms for a priori
dismissal of a person&#8217;s arguments, most absurdly within the realm of scientific discourse
(Herman and Chomsky, 1989; Simons, 1994; Parenti, 1996; Coady, 2003; Chomsky,
2005; Fetzer, 2007; Griffin, 2004, 2007a/b; Jones, 2007a/b). In fact, a recent sociological
analysis by Husting and Orr (2007), &#8220;Dangerous Machinery: &#8220;Conspiracy theorist&#8221; as a
Transpersonal Strategy of Exclusion&#8221; in the journal Symbolic Interaction, discusses in
detail the inherent dangers of applying &#8220;conspiracy&#8221; labels to public exchanges of ideas
and scholarly dialogues, specifically exposing how people fall into the trap of such
logical fallacy, especially in the new post-9/11 world:
 

yossarian22

Resident Schizophrenic
You have not proved anything at all.
Do I see a would be leaker getting executed? No.
Face it, it takes a hell of a lot more people then a few high ranking government officials.
You think a bureaucrat could wire a bomb?
 
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