From the neutral country - Switzerland

[greatcalgarian]

Switzerland is well known for her neutrality in the world political affair. This is an article from there. I think it is a very good summary of the current understanding of 9/11:

http://www.danieleganser.ch/zeitungsartikel/pdf/agora_eng.pdf

The Bitter Debate Over September 11th
Penetrating questions are repeatedly asked in the United States, and also in Switzerland, about the terror attacks of September 11, 2001 (9/11) and the resulting wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
By Daniele Ganser*
Translated by Jesse Goplen**

The Iraq War is not about fighting terror, it's primarily about the control of globally diminishing inventories of petroleum and natural gas, the American Fadel Gheit, former manager at the petroleum concern ExxonMobil, is convinced. “Our way of life
in the US requires 20 million barrels daily, of which half must be imported. We resemble a patient on petroleum dialysis,” according to Gheit. “This is about life and death here.”
Contrary to the allegations of Vice President Dick Cheney, Saddam Hussein, the deposed dictator of Iraq, bears no responsibility for 9/11 and did not seek an atomic weapon, protests Scott Ritter, former UN inspector in Iraq. “We were told a lot of lies, and the media follow blindly and repeat these lies. The Bush Administration manipulated the data in order to provide a basis for the invasion of Iraq.”

Three mutually exclusive 9/11 theories stand in opposition to one another. All three theories are conspiracy theories, although their proponents may well deny this. They are conspiracy theories because they all assume a secret agreement between two or more actors before September 11th as a given.

The first theory, the so-called “Surprise Theory,” comes from the US government and is supported by the official American investigation, the 9/11 Commission Report by Thomas Kean, which appeared in the Summer of 2004. This is the official 9/11 story: Osama bin Laden planned the attacks together with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed first in Afghanistan, then a group of 19 Muslims led by Mohammed Atta carried out the terror attack in the US with four airplanes. Bin Laden and his network are guilty of the criminal act.

The second theory, the so-called “Let It Happen On Purpose Theory” (LIHOP), alleges bin Laden and the Al Qaeda network had planned and carried out the attack. Portions of the US government found this out, but despite this deliberately did not
avert the attack and sacrificed almost 3000 people to legitimize a series of wars, of which those in Afghanistan and Iraq are only the first two. Both bin Laden as well as portions of the US government are guilty of the criminal act.

Finally, the third theory, the so-called “Make It Happen On Purpose Theory” (MIHOP), maintains the attacks were carried out but the Pentagon and/or the US intelligence agencies, the videos of bin Laden are faked. Almost 3000 people were
sacrificed in cold blood, and the people in the US and the world were deceived, in order to legitimize a series of wars. Portions of the US government are guilty of the criminal act.

Are you a strong supporter of the Bush Government theory?
Are you like an agnostic, make LIHOP your way out of this shocking incident?
Or are you the atheist left-winger die hard shouting for MIHOP?

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi greatcalgarian,

Are you a strong supporter of the Bush Government theory?

Yes, but it's not the "Bush Government" theory, it is a theory that is corroborated by evidence outside the government.

Which one do you support?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

So all it proves is that there are conspiracy theorists in Switzerland.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Hi greatcalgarian,



Yes, but it's not the "Bush Government" theory, it is a theory that is corroborated by evidence outside the government.

Which one do you support?

Tell me your theory first. I have already stated that I am inclined towards the LIHOP leaning towards the MIHOP.

What are the theories that have corroborating evidence outside the government? Did not the government in their official web page branded all other theories are conspiracy theories?

 

[greatcalgarian]

So all it proves is that there are conspiracy theorists in Switzerland.

Tell me where in the world that American has an interest in that there is no conspiracy thoerist?

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi greatcalgarian,

Tell me your theory first. I have already stated that I am inclined towards the LIHOP leaning towards the MIHOP.

I believe Muslim terrorists attacked the WTC and the Pentagon.

What are the theories that have corroborating evidence outside the government? Did not the government in their official web page branded all other theories are conspiracy theories?

I really don't care what the government says about the other theories. I believe only one theory has any credible evidence and that is the one that states that Muslim terrorists perpetrated the 9/11 attacks.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Hi greatcalgarian,



I believe Muslim terrorists attacked the WTC and the Pentagon.



I really don't care what the government says about the other theories. I believe only one theory has any credible evidence and that is the one that states that Muslim terrorists perpetrated the 9/11 attacks.

Very good. In that case, you agree or are of the opinion that Muslim terrorists have superior intelligent information and ability to carry out the 9/11 attack overcoming all the US network of counter intelligent? (Your answer: NO! No! NO! It was the democrats who cut away the fund for the intelligent, and that is why we were not able to stop them. Now Bush has done all that is necessary such as the Patriot act etc, and also even gone to their nest in Afghan and Iraq to eradicate their brain centre, though this Ladin guy is a bit sneakish, we still did not find him, but we will one day)

You believe that US government were not aware of the possible attack of the Muslim terrorists using the four planes? (Your answer: of course, Condi stated it many times, and if you do not trust Condi who else can you trust)

You believe that Muslim terrorist organization are so brilliant or blessed and supported by their Alah that they plan and know when to carry out the attack on 9/11 when the US air defence system is down to almost nil as a consequence of the various exercises? (your answer: coincidence )

You believe that WTC1 and WTC2 will collapse when hit by a commercial plane? If that is the case, the design must be faulty, and why are the original designer and the New York City that approved the building of WTC1 and WTC2 be brought to court to answer for their negligent in design and approval?

We also have WTC7 imploded and levelled to ground and up till now, not FEMA, not NIST, not any of those government Structual Engineers and Expert have come up with an explanation of how did WTC7 collapse.

BBC has floated the story of some of the 19 terrorists were still alive and running around for several years, and only recently came up with another story retracting that story. Yet the retracting story accounted only for some of the alive terrorists. So the natural conclusion is that the list of 19 terrorists could be a made up list by the CIA, this could support your assumption that US intelligent is inferior to that of the Muslim terrorists.

I am very curious what are the credible evidence and where do you learn those evidence. If you are kind enough, please let me have your source, as I am dying to learn more. Do not tell me it is all in the Kean's report, as this has been completely debunk by David Ray Griffin, and so far no response from the government, I have also downloaded the copy and read it as my bed time story book, have you read the report? Make sure you have read the entire Kean's report and also Griffin rebutal. Please do not tell me it is in the FEMA report, and the pancake theory etc, as these have all been shown to be unreliable evidence. Do not quote NIST report, as I have gone over 1/10th of the relevant part, and that has also been answered by Jim Hoffman. And if you want to quote Popular Mechanics, or the Government FAQ, I am sorry to tell you that my opinion is that these are not credible evidence.

If you want to start exploring the truth, and not insisting that there is only one story: the Muslim terrorist did it (alone all by themselves), try start on David Ray Griffin first book.
The New Pearl Harbour (there are some ideas in that book which are no longer valid after more evidence surfaced, about 10%)
http://www.campusi.com/bookFind/asp/bookFindPriceLst.asp?prodId=1566565529
A good link on his work:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/050504davidraygriffin
and go and borrow from the Library his second book on the commision report:
http://www.campusi.com/bookFind/asp/bookFindPriceLst.asp?prodId=1566565847

Do not waste your time going to watch, for example "Loose Change" which contains about 60% truth, but also contains many silly 'conspiracy theories' which will only confuse you and make you think that government story is better.



http://www.wanttoknow.info/050504davidraygriffin

 

[FatMan]

Tell me your theory first. I have already stated that I am inclined towards the LIHOP leaning towards the MIHOP.

So in other words, this MIHOP bullspit started with Clinton around since Bin Laden was doing things back then, or is the all-powerful Bush Administration able to hack into Al-Jazeera and other Arab stations to leak video of Bin Laden? Were they also able to doctor video that showed Arabs boarding the planes in question that craqshed into the Twin Towers.

There is absolutely no credible evidence to support a MIHOP scenario, and anything you've pointed to is NOT credible.

 

[Ciscokid]

You believe that WTC1 and WTC2 will collapse when hit by a commercial plane? If that is the case, the design must be faulty, and why are the original designer and the New York City that approved the building of WTC1 and WTC2 be brought to court to answer for their negligent in design and approval?

I'm only going to address this statement as I can't stomach much else. When the engineers got together and started planning the construction of the WTC buildings in 1966, I don't think they were worrying about large planes slamming into them.

 

[Atheist007]

Great C,your slaughtering them,dropping links,every thing about your debating skills is just right,no forcefullness,no ignorance..... and how does these yankees respond? by not claiming anything other than that they don`t care,and the truth will fall in their laps,hahaha,it`s great being european,huh? we don`t have blind faith,our government fears us, they fear their government,wake up,start digging for yourself,if you care. don`t be posting those "i didn`t check,but i don`t want it to be that way,so you are retarded". given u.s history,nothing would be surprising,not even direct involvement in killing own citizens,and especially not bombing a virtually empty part of the pentagon(any plane attempting that i guessed would be fired down by some anti-aircraft guns,we got them in every big city,especially miltary command posts). However, given the fact that your president is either the dumbest guy in the world,or the best guy in the world at playing dumb i guess i believe that it is very possible that he ignored every cia message(he was no.1 on the cia to kill list before g.w.b even stepped in to office), he took bin laden of the hitlist,please,check it out for your self,or write a letter to george tenet, and he did lay every major foreign spy operation outside cuba and iraq dead(the first war plans on iraq being drawn out way before september 11), it would be easier for the 3/4 of the world that furiously hate you a clear shot for destruction and death(like you have been so generous in slaughtering their peoples they just wanted to return the good treatment).... and bush turning a blind eye to 9 reports about immediate threats to wtc is proven,again,ask tenet,read his book,so should you. so for your question: Are you a strong supporter of the Bush Government theory? Are you like an agnostic, make LIHOP your way out of this shocking incident? Or are you the atheist left-winger die hard shouting for MIHOP? I am between the official theory and that lihop.... but that will never change the fact that i am a leftwing(commie,red as they get) atheist! and i wouldn`t be surprised if they did it all them selves

 

[FatMan]

Being European is great. I guess attacks in spain were faked by Bush as well.

 

[Atheist007]

I'm only going to address this statement as I can't stomach much else. When the engineers got together and started planning the construction of the WTC buildings in 1966, I don't think they were worrying about large planes slamming into them.

First of all,the wtc was designed to be hit by one boing,don`t remember the specs,but certainly not a bigger later model,that`s true..... I know you are an american, your people is the only people who cannot stomach any real discussions, you need you fox don`t you? Please go out,and make your government that of the people,and by people i do not mean rich people..... Personally i hate the united states of halliburton,exxon mobile,citibank,chasemanhatten,rothchild, and microsoft(too many to mention) I mean i hate the united states of fortune 500!

 

[Atheist007]

Spain is the country in europe with most political prisoners,they have a multifront war,with efta and other big enemies they made over being the most aggresive colonial power ever........ paybacks a female dog..... and that dog bites... If did`nt have any of the telltale signs of al qaida,nor has anybody i met in spain been more worried after it,and military aggression against another country because of it,unheard of..... in britton most people still believe the government had it`s hands on the bombing,since the mi-6 has admitted bombing a lot during the northern ireland crisis to start anti northern ireland sentiment.... learn your history and stop talking out your behind

 

[Atheist007]

i don`t believe al qaida was anything before you made the whole world their place,and every one who disagrees with u.s policy a part of them

 

[michel]

So all it proves is that there are conspiracy theorists in Switzerland.

Well said! I couldn't have put it better myself. What does upset me at times is the thought that, even through her Neutrality, Switzerland is forever willing to accept funds that they must think are not "morally earned".

Most African leaders have Swiss bank accounts.

 

[Atheist007]

are most african leaders worst than your leaders,no,they are way better,and they mostly suck.......and if you put all their money together,the still ain`t close to the initial bribes taken by your president(campain contributions,in my country that`S illegal,and i learned from you to jugde only through my own standards and laws)...... your stupid justice department tried to kick to cubans who were in norway on official duty,they got kicked out of the hilton(they follow your laws and disobey ours in our own country)... we ran out the hilton chain we don`t accept that type of bullying over here. As for swiss banks,they are the greatest concentration of evil anywhere,and the reason switzerland allways has the possibility to remain neutral,they got all the money,a war with them would never end,and they protect the pope... And none of that has anything to do with african politicans,,,,, only big internatinal companies,mostly u.s based, get the picture,the evil you are portraying is of an american origin...... or certainly in the american spirit....

 

[FatMan]

There are conspiracy theorists and then there are just plain whackos. I give credit that theorists at least try to give rational examples and tie them to the events.

If that isn't happening, then, well.....

 

[Atheist007]

don`t you americans discuss things passionately,does every comment have to sound like a snippet from the callers on fox?your throwing around the word conspracy theory to discredit people,all 3 options were conspiracy theories,even the accepted story is a conspiracy theory,learn english dudes,know your schools don`t teach anything,maybe it`s time for solidarity,and universal healthcare,and end the american illusion? Maybe you would understand more,sorry,this can be the rudest question ever but have any of you guys ever in your adult life read a book? You`re not number 1 You`re not number 1 You`re not number 1 You`re not number 1 or even 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,more like 137

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Tell me where in the world that American has an interest in that there is no conspiracy thoerist?

Can you explain that sentence?

 

[Mathematician]

are most african leaders worst than your leaders

After living here for my whole life and hearing of what's going on in the heart and horn of Africa through both personal accounts and secondary sources, I'm inclined say our leaders are, at the very minimum, limited. However, I'm open to counter evidence when I join the the Peace Corps. in a few years.

You`re not number 1 You`re not number 1 You`re not number 1 You`re not number 1 or even 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,more like 137

You're preaching to the choir. RF Americans are some of the most intelligent, compassionate, publicaly aware people you'll find in the world, regardless of what they believe.