From where did the "wives" of Cain and Abel come?

[nPeace]

YES

PICJAG.

Thank you.
How do you know this? What evidence is there that you understand the scriptures, and have holy spirit?

 

[101G]

@101G the scriptures are indeed not ideas.
I was referring to your ideas about scripture.
There is a difference there. Your ideas are not supported by scripture, therefore your ideas cannot be truth and facts, but what we read in scripture is.
We just need to understand them.

ok, no problem, ask what you don't understand, and if I can answer, fine. but if I don't know the answer to your question I will not answer, because I will not lie in trying to impress someone. if I don't know the answer to your question we will go in pray and seek the gudiance of the one who knows, the Holy Spirit, who will teach us. fair enough?

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Thank you.
How do you know this? What evidence is there that you understand the scriptures, and have holy spirit?

see post #122.

PICJAG.

 

[nPeace]

ok, no problem, ask what you don't understand, and if I can answer, fine. but if I don't know the answer to your question I will not answer, because I will not lie in trying to impress someone. if I don't know the answer to your question we will go in pray and seek the gudiance of the one who knows, the Holy Spirit, who will teach us. fair enough?

PICJAG.

I don't have any questions for you 101G.
I was simply saying that the Bible has the truth, and facts. It's a matter of us understanding the scriptures.

 

[nPeace]

see post #122.

PICJAG.

Oh. Okay, so you don't know the answers to those questions. Is that what you are saying?

 

[101G]

I don't have any questions for you 101G.
I was simply saying that the Bible has the truth, and facts. It's a matter of us understanding the scriptures.

As said, ask God, and he will give you understanding.

Oh. Okay, so you don't know the answers to those questions. Is that what you are saying?

You say, I have posted, it's up to you to reprove me or correct me if you disagree. and you must use scriptures to reprove me or to correct me.

THIS IS WHAT I"M SAYING

PICJAG.

 

[Alea iacta est]

There are many things that can be answered both by other verses but as well as good guesses. Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters which at least a few already have quoted. The wife from Nod may make sense even though there were so few people on Earth. It can have been a niece to one of the unnamed siblings. Since the people back then lived very long they probably didn't live on the same spot the entire extended family. They probably gave space and moved away a bit from each other.

Later on, the question is who are the sons of God in this case?

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

— Genesis 6:1–4, KJV

 

[101G]

There are many things that can be answered both by other verses but as well as good guesses. Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters which at least a few already have quoted. The wife from Nod may make sense even though there were so few people on Earth. It can have been a niece to one of the unnamed siblings. Since the people back then lived very long they probably didn't live on the same spot the entire extended family. They probably gave space and moved away a bit from each other.

Later on, the question is who are the sons of God in this case?

first thanks for your reply. if one read the record, Cain knew her in nod, not met her ther but knew her there, meaning had sex, for she was his wife.
as for the sons of God, this term is only used of HUMANS, and not angels.
PICJAG.

 

[Deeje]

The Nephilim are from a much, much older Babylonian myth.

Again with the negatives with no scriptural back up......

The Nephilim were destroyed in the flood. The myths that sprang from the tales told after the flood relate to very tall races of people physically unrelated to these half human monsters who had no right to live and hence why none survived the deluge.

The Nephilim were the “mighty ones,” the gib·bo·rimʹ, mentioned in the latter part of verse. For example: “In those days, as well as afterward, there were giants [Heb., han·nephi·limʹ] on the earth, who were born to the sons of the gods whenever they had intercourse with the daughters of men; these were the heroes [Heb., hag·gib·bo·rimʹ] who were men of note in days of old.” (Genesis 6:4 AT)

 

[Subduction Zone]

Again with the negatives with no scriptural back up......

The Nephilim were destroyed in the flood. The myths that sprang from the tales told after the flood relate to very tall races of people physically unrelated to these half human monsters who had no right to live and hence why none survived the deluge.

The Nephilim were the “mighty ones,” the gib·bo·rimʹ, mentioned in the latter part of verse. For example: “In those days, as well as afterward, there were giants [Heb., han·nephi·limʹ] on the earth, who were born to the sons of the gods whenever they had intercourse with the daughters of men; these were the heroes [Heb., hag·gib·bo·rimʹ] who were men of note in days of old.” (Genesis 6:4 AT)

You do realize that you asked for the wrong source for back up, don't you? The scriptures do not tell you the myths that they were based upon. Now if you would like I could supply the myths that the Noah's Ark myth is based upon. You are probably aware of it already.

 

[Deeje]

as for the sons of God, this term is only used of HUMANS, and not angels.

Job 38:7...
“when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (21KJV)
These are angels applauding the creation. In existence before humans.

Job 1:6...
“Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.”

Sons of God and Satan along with them.....angels.

Job knew nothing of this assembly...was he not a “son of God” seeing as how he was the most righteous man alive at the time?

 

[Moz]

The Nephilim are from a much, much older Babylonian myth.

I never quite understand what these sort of comments are meant to imply. Abram was from UR, he was a Chaldean in the very region where the events of Genesis and the flood took place.
That the Enuma Elish and the Biblical account have significant points of similarity is to be expected as the Babylonian myth is based on a corruption of the Genesis account kept pure through Abraham's line and not vice versa.

 

[Deeje]

so we suggest you study this, for there are two lines from Adam. one line sinless born in the garden, and a line born outside the garden in sin. for the bible is written for us who are in that line outside the garden, now available to be restored to pardise lost..

Who is “we”?.... just out of curiosity...

It is your opinion that there are two lines of humans....but Adam and his wife did not have children until they were expelled from the garden....this is what Genesis says.....but apparently your take on scripture trumps everyone else’s because you get your info straight from the holy spirit....? Right?

Who said? Do you know how many other people there are in this world who try to peddle whacked out ideas as if they came straight from God? No one can convince them either.....

The “two lines of humans” do not gel with the rest of scripture.....in fact they invalidate what was accomplished by Christ’s sacrificial death.....but no matter what you are shown, you stick to your own ideas as if they were your children. That’s OK....just don’t expect anyone with a modicum of Bible knowledge to agree with you.

 

[101G]

Job 38:7...
“when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (21KJV)
These are angels applauding the creation. In existence before humans.

Job 1:6...
“Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.”

Sons of God and Satan along with them.....angels.

Job knew nothing of this assembly...was he not a “son of God” seeing as how he was the most righteous man alive at the time?

thanks for the reply, second, another wise tale fable made up, without understanding of scripture.
Let’s just cut the head off first, by starting with your verse used, Job 38:7. Understand, and get the whole context, Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? 8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? 9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, 10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, 11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?”. the Almighty, the creator of heaven, and earth is asking Job some question that Job cannot answer, or any man, nor any angle. but God has answered it already in Job 38:7 “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”. Here is what most people say, see this prove that it was the angles. NO, NOT so fast. Question, who really are these “morning stars”, and "the sons of God" that sang, and shouted. Let’s see who and what they are. Here in Job 38 God almighty are using metaphors. Example, Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Job 38:5 "Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Job 38:6 "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof”. We know that the earth has no foundation or corner stone. How do we know this? right in the same book of Job it states this, Job 26:7 "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing”. God himself is what keep the earth where it is. Understand, God is giving metaphors to Job and us to understand what he did in creation, again, Job 38:8 "Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?”. We all know that there are no actual doors holding back the water of the seas, the almighty do that himself. But God is using metaphors to give Job and his friends understanding about creation. Now we will solve the “morning stars" who sang together, and all the "sons of God" that shouted for joy?”. First the morning stars. we will tell you first and then prove it. the morning stars here in Job 38 are the actual stars in the heavens. Let’s go to the book of James. Follow and understand. James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning”. The almighty is called the “Father” of lights, and lights here is plural, and is the Greek word, G5457 φῶς phos (fōs') n. which means luminousness. Now hold that thought and go to Thayer's Greek Definitions and or the blue letter bible, the link, Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
and look up G3962 πατήρ pater, (Father)
- Transliteration: Pater
- Phonetic: pat-ayr'
- Definition:
1I. generator or male ancestor
a. either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents.
THIS IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE THINK WHEN THEY HEAR THE WORD “FATHER”.

but we are interested in the 3rd definition, and here it is, listen.
III. God is called the Father
a. of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler

God is the Father of the “STARS”, and the heavenly luminaries. Yes, the literal stars in the sky. google the word stars, please add the “s” to the end of stars, for Job said, morning “stars” not morning “star”.. Many other stars are visible to the naked eye from Earth during the night, appearing as a multitude of fixed luminous points in the sky due to their immense distance from Earth. Again, the stars are the actual stars in the heavens. Now, go to dictionary.com, or the free dictionary, or any dictionary and look up luminaries in the plural a celestial body, as the sun or moon.

Now let’s see this sun and moon and the actual stars and what they did in Job 38:7. Remember the Almighty said that they sang and shouted for joy. Let’s see this metaphor clearly. Psalms 148:1 "Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. Verse 2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts. 3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light. 4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens. 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created”.
Now what do the word praise mean here? It is the Hebrew word, H1984 הָלַל halal (haw-lal') v. which can be translated as “sing”, or “shine”. understand, the stars, the sun and the moon sang or praised God by shining their lights in creation. see how angels are separated from the sun and the moon and the stars.

One more, in Job 38 it said they "SHOUTED for JOY". Psalms 65:13 "The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing”. The pastures, and valleys also praising God? Yes, how? by shouting for joy and singing. It’s all a metaphor. Do we now understand? if not tell us how pastors of flocks shout, or fields of corn sing.

the sons of God in Job 38 are the actual sun and the moon and the actual stars in the heavens, is all .metamorphic language. so NO, the sons of God in Job 38 are not angels.

PICJAG.

 

[nPeace]

As said, ask God, and he will give you understanding.

You say, I have posted, it's up to you to reprove me or correct me if you disagree. and you must use scriptures to reprove me or to correct me.

THIS IS WHAT I"M SAYING

PICJAG.

Okay. No problem.
Let's look at what the Bible really says.
The pictures are just a visual example, but does not present an accurate picture.

Genesis 1:1

Genesis 1:2

Genesis 1:3-5

Genesis 1:6-31

Notice the sequence of events.
In Genesis 1:26-28, the male and female are created.
God does not say how he did it, nor does he give any details on anything... he just described his creative events.

Genesis 2
1 And the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it; because that in it he rested from all his work which God had created and made.

All of God's creative works were finished - Done. Finito. Completed. No more to be done. ALL - Everything.
That is according to scripture.

Therefore, from Genesis 2:3-34 what is discussed, is not what God is now doing, but it is recounting what God did, during the six creative days. It is a history. Giving a few of the details, of events in the garden of Eden.

Genesis 2:4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made them.

From here on, is an explanation of the account.
The history of Genesis 2 , from verse 5 is not given in chronological order, as is evident from the many verses such as verses 5, and 6, which happen very early in history. before verse 7, which obviously occurred after verses 8, and 9, as is evident by verse 19.
It is in verse 7, that God provides the partial details (he did not give a very detailed picture, like a surgeon to surgeon) of how he created and formed the man, and in verses 21, and 22, the woman. Awesome.

It is evident that the writer received the information orally, and did not write all the details, nor put them in logical order.
Nevertheless, the history was recorded, even showing that God was creating animals after he created the man - Genesis 2:19.

Speculating : It's possible God could have been creating animals after creating Eve, who arrive very late after. Or Eve might have been the last creation. The Bible does not say.

We know though, that Adam was alone with nature and his God, for a tremendously long time, before he sang the words...
Genesis 2:23, 24
“This is at last bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh.
This one will be called Woman,
Because from man she was taken.”

That's it.
Key, is the fact that Genesis 2 is a historical record of some of the details of Genesis 1.
We know this because, 1. all of God's creative work ended on day 6. He did no work after. 2. Genesis 2:4 tells us it is a history of the creative days.
So there we have scripture - what the Bible really says.

 

[101G]

It is your opinion that there are two lines of humans....but Adam and his wife did not have children until they were expelled from the garden....this is what Genesis says.....but apparently your take on scripture trumps everyone else’s because you get your info straight from the holy spirit....? Right?

I get it straight from the scripture, and the understanding is by the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

Who said? Do you know how many other people there are in this world who try to peddle whacked out ideas as if they came straight from God? No one can convince them either.....

I'll let the Lord God almighty answer that, Deuteronomy 18:22 "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
so if you don't believe what I have posted, then reprove it, or correct it. just that simple. for the truth of God do not bend for me you, or anyone else if it's not of the Lord.

The “two lines of humans” do not gel with the rest of scripture.....in fact they invalidate what was accomplished by Christ’s sacrificial death.....but no matter what you are shown, you stick to your own ideas as if they were your children. That’s OK....just don’t expect anyone with a modicum of Bible knowledge to agree with you.

Look, if you have something different, PUT IT ON THE TABLE FOR DISCUSSION. if it's TRUE then the SCRIPTURES will stand, but if false it will fall.

also not this. there is nothing wrong in being in ERROR, the problem is this, "STAYING IN ERROR". to many people put to much ... weight on being right or in error. listen 1 Corinthians 3:15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
when apollos, a preacher, was corrected. Acts 18:24 "And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus." Acts 18:25 "This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John." Acts 18:26 "And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly."

this is why we have these christian forums, to discuss, not see who is right or wrong, but to discuss and find the way of God more perfectly. who's right or wrong is childish. only God knows.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Notice the sequence of events.
In Genesis 1:26-28, the male and female are created.
God does not say how he did it, nor does he give any details on anything... he just described his creative events.

not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, Let's take this one step at a time.
#1. we say the man/Adam was formed/made on day #3. and that the sexes/Gender (Male and Female) was created on day 6. so if you don't mind lets examine one thing at a time, ok.

if so, you can respond to the above assessment of man being formed on day #3.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

follow up on the sons of God.
Let’s move on to Job 1:6 & Job 2:1. Job 1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them”. Here, some say that this presentation was in heaven of the angles. Now Job 2:1 "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD”. they came together and presented themselves before the LORD. was this in heaven? NO, it was here on Earth. this is nothing unusual, Joshua 24:1 "And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God”. this presenting of the heads of Israel was on earth, and not in heaven. Likewise, the sons of God in Job 1:6, and 2:1 was “earth born” men/sons of God who presented themselves before God here on PLANET EARTH. One very important scripture also in the book of Job as to who a son of God is was revealed to us clearly, about Job himself and his faithful friends. listen, Job 1:3 "His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east”. if one will read, starting at Job 1:1 we would know that this is speaking of the man Job. in verse 3 the word “Men” there is the Hebrew word, H1121 בֵּן ben (bane) which means sons as in Genesis 6. BINGO, but one might say these are not sons of God “Ben HaElohim. Let’s stop here and think about something. What is the subject here? Job and his friends presenting themselves before God. Is this strange that Satan came among them? No, it has happened before. Scripture, Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?”. Here Adam and Eve are the children of God, HERE ON EARTH. the term H1121 בֵּן ben (bane) which means sons, But what’s so interesting is the use of words in expressing who Job was. Notice the verse states, “so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east”. Here “man”, and “men” are used in the same verse. Why didn’t the bible use the Hebrew word, H582 אֱנוֹשׁ 'enowsh (en-oshe') n-m. for men? It means,
אֲנָשִׁים 'enowsh (en-oshe') [plural]
1. (properly) a mortal (and thus differing from the more dignified H120).
2. (hence) a man in general (singly or collectively).

Looking at definition #1, was not Job a mortal man? And why not use H376 אִישׁ 'iysh (eesh) n-m or אִישִׁים 'iysh (eesh) plural for men of the east instead of “sons”/ H1121 בָּנִים baniym (ba-neem') in the plural. H376 אִישׁ 'iysh means a man as an individual or a male person. It is the contracted for H582, Which simply means a mortal or a man in general. STOP, THIS JUST TOLD US JOB NOR HIS FRIENDS WERE NOT JUST MORTAL MEN IN GENERAL. but have characteristics or the character of God. By using the definition of H1121, instead of H582 אֱנוֹשׁ 'enowsh, that without a doubt is saying something and making a statement about Job and his friends that is not made by men in general. No, this man Job is a son of God, let’s see it clearly. Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come”. there were some men “AFTER” Adam who did not sin as he did. Now I wonder who some of those men were?
so the term "son of God" is and are applied to humans. it's a title, Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"
so the scriptures bright as day tells us no angel at any time ... STOP, is Genesis 6 a time? yes, so the sons of God there are not angels. case closed on angels as sons of God.

PICJAG.

 

[nPeace]

not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, Let's take this one step at a time.
#1. we say the man/Adam was formed/made on day #3. and that the sexes/Gender (Male and Female) was created on day 6. so if you don't mind lets examine one thing at a time, ok.

if so, you can respond to the above assessment of man being formed on day #3.

PICJAG.

Why are you not willing to consider what I write?
I wrote it for you to consider - you asked me to. I did, so you can step through it and tell me which parts of scripture you disagree with, and why, or what part I wrote does not agree with scripture. Thank you.

I get the feeling you did not read it through. Am I correct @101G ?

 

[Deeje]

Look, if you have something different, PUT IT ON THE TABLE FOR DISCUSSION. if it's TRUE then the SCRIPTURES will stand, but if false it will fall.

The old saying is true I guess....”a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”.

No matter what is PUT ON THE TABLE from the scriptures, you have your own convoluted explanation to justify your position.That's OK.....you can believe as you wish, but you do not know that it is the holy spirit inspiring you if you are the only one who is blessed with this knowledge.....who are your brothers? Christians cannot exist in isolation. They have to be more than a single voice on an internet forum.

No point in circular arguments. Logically your spin on the scriptures requires more credulity than mine. I have the scriptural reasons for Christ’s ransom sacrifice and your scenario does not fit it. I guess we will all find out soon enough.

Incidentally, can you tell me why you reference older versions of scripture? (they are now inaccurate and outdated translations) With the “thees, thous, untos, etc.... do you speak archaic English? Neither do most people.

Do you believe in immortality of the soul......the trinity......or a hell of eternal torment?