Frustrated athiest asks why do you believe in God?

[TagliatelliMonster]

Only if he said it it would be untrue because he didn't create you and doesn't have any rights over you, as opposed to the all powerful benevolent being that did.

North Koreans would disagree.

And your god is demonstrably not benevolent since he commands and condones plenty of evil stuff in the bible. He engages in evil also.

 

[Wildswanderer]

View attachment 60998

That doesn't appear on your other posts.

 

[F1fan]

No it shows us we have a responsibility to others... that would not be so if we didn't believe in a loving God.

People know innately that we have a responsibility to others. We don't need belief in God to do that. And we see many believers in God that don't care about others, so your claim here is not only unnecessary, has no cause and effect, but also inconsistent.

Works will be a reality in the life of a true believer, they may seem small or large but the important thing is the motivation behind them.

I worked in the food kitchen at my grandmother's church when I was a kid. Boy that opened my eyes to the reality of the poor in the USA. I had no idea. The people in her church were real Christians to my mind as they helped the needy as a duty to others, and not an obligation of religion, or any reason to promote their religion. They didn't even pray, they just served food to the needy twice a week.

Conservative Christians tend to insist that works are not necessary or important, at least in regards to their own salvation. They tend to say they donate to charities but also insist that government aid to the needy should be abolished. A few have even stated that government and tax revenue has no place in helping the needy, that it should only be aid via charity. When I asked what if charity falls short of the need, and they said that's the way it goes, too bad. I found that totally immoral and missing the mission of what Jesus taught. He didn't;t say to only help people with charity, he said help people, period.

 

[F1fan]

North Koreans would disagree.

And your god is demonstrably not benevolent since he commands and condones plenty of evil stuff in the bible. He engages in evil also.

A truly benevolent God wouldn't let babies be born with defects or develop cancers or other deadly diseases. Or am I missing something wondrous and beautiful about children dying in cancer wards?

 

[Wildswanderer]

People know innately that we have a responsibility to others

Are you kidding,? Do you know how many parents basically let their kids grow up without any help from them because they are too busy making money? People are selfish, fan man. Sorry to break it to you.

 

[Wildswanderer]

worked in the food kitchen at my grandmother's church when I was a kid. Boy that opened my eyes to the reality of the poor in the USA. I had no idea. The people in her church were real Christians to my mind as they helped the needy as a duty to others, and not an obligation of religion, or any reason to promote their religion. They didn't even pray, they just served food to the needy twice a week.

The church I attend helps anyone who needs help. They have given away thosands of dollars to total strangers in debt, given food, clothes, tools heating and on and on. Because they believe it's what Jesus would want.

 

[F1fan]

Are you kidding,?

No I'm not kidding, humans evolved to cooperate and help other tribe members because that was an advantage to the self's survival.

Do you know how many parents basically let their kids grow up without any help from them because they are too busy making money? People are selfish, fan man. Sorry to break it to you.

How many of these people are Christian?

 

[F1fan]

The church I attend helps anyone who needs help. They have given away thosands of dollars to total strangers in debt, given food, clothes, tools heating and on and on. Because they believe it's what Jesus would want.

Yeah, it feels good to help others. That is our natural inclination to help others kicking in in our brain wiring.

Of course this doesn't;t mean all people feel this, as there are brain defects like was causes sociopaths or learned disdain for others for the sake of group unity, like nazis, or just due to bad life experiences that makes a person cruel and destructive.

 

[PureX]

F1fan wants to pretend that everything is due to evolutionary "brain wiring" so there will be no possibility that faith in God ever had anything to do with anything good any human has ever done.

It's so cute.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That doesn't appear on your other posts.

No matter.

So anyway...

You said

We perceive ourselves as souls not just physical bodies

We perceive ourselves as souls not just physical bodies. That goes for the vast majority of humankind... Only a few educate themselves out of that innate knowledge we are born with.

"Reality is not what you perceive it to be, it's instead what the tools and methods of science reveal".

What is meant by that, is that what we perceive and what is actually real, is not necessarily the same thing.
In fact, a lot more times then people would like to believe or admit, it is not.

To give an easy example, what we perceive, is that the sun orbits the earth and that the earth is stationary.
Objective data, tells us otherwise.

 

[Subduction Zone]

F1fan wants to pretend that everything is due to evolutionary "brain wiring" so there will be no possibility that faith in God ever had anything to do with anything good any human has ever done.

It's so cute.

You act as if you have evidence to the contrary. Now that's cute.

 

[PureX]

You act as if you have evidence to the contrary. Now that's cute.

Everyone that has ever done a good deed because they trusted in their idea that it's what their God wanted them to do is evidence. You confuse evidence with proof so you can dismiss any evidence you don't like. Not very "scientific" of you. Or honest, either, for that matter.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Everyone that has ever done a good deed because they trusted in their idea that it's what their God wanted them to do is evidence. You confuse evidence with proof so you can dismiss any evidence you don't like. Not very "scientific" of you. Or honest, either, for that matter.

No, there does not appear to be any reason to bring a god into the discussion. And no, you may conflate evidence with proof. I don't do that. You may be angry because you do not appear to have any reliable evidence for yourbeliefs.

Otherwise why are you so mad? Why all of the false accusations?

 

[PureX]

No, there does not appear to be any reason to bring a god into the discussion. And no, you may conflate evidence with proof. I don't do that. You may be angry because you do not appear to have any reliable evidence for yourbeliefs.

Otherwise why are you so mad? Why all of the false accusations?

Bob says I did x because y. It's pretty good evidence that Bob did x because y. Except for you. You know better than Bob why he did x.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Bob says I did x because y. It's pretty good evidence that Bob did x because y. Except for you. You know better than Bob why he did x.

Not true at all. It all depends upon what Bob claims that he did. "I walked to the store to buy some.milk". Okay Bob,sounds reasonable. " I flapped my arms real hard and flew around the room.". Sorry Bob, I am going to need a lot stronger evidence than that.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No I'm not kidding, humans evolved to cooperate and help other tribe members because that was an advantage to the self's survival.


How many of these people are Christian?

Well, they are doing a lousy job of it.
And the point was never that Christians perform perfectly. The point is that we all need a Savior because we aren't capable of perfection.
People are basically selfish in the flesh but being made in God's image gives us all the ability to be compassionate humans if we choose to cooperate with God's will.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yeah, it feels good to help others. That is our natural inclination to help others kicking in in our brain wiring.

Of course this doesn't;t mean all people feel this, as there are brain defects like was causes sociopaths or learned disdain for others for the sake of group unity, like nazis, or just due to bad life experiences that makes a person cruel and destructive.

So it's not natural or it is? Because in reality, it's both. We are spirit and flesh and the flesh to quote some actor "Wants what it wants." and has no problem with violating whatever ethical norms there are to get there. That's why Scripture tells us to live by the Spirit not the flesh.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Reality is not what you perceive it to be, it's instead what the tools and methods of science reveal".

If reality is not what you perceive that calls all of science into question because it depends on what we perceive as reality.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, they are doing a lousy job of it.
And the point was never that Christians perform perfectly. The point is that we all need a Savior because we aren't capable of perfection.
People are basically selfish in the flesh but being made in God's image gives us all the ability to be compassionate humans if we choose to cooperate with God's will.

Yes, we aren't perfect, but according to your beliefs God made us. It appears you are claiming that we need a savior due to God's incompetence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If reality is not what you perceive that calls all of science into question because it depends on what we perceive as reality.

No, you are forgetting that scientific claims can be tested and confirmed or refuted.