Frustrated athiest asks why do you believe in God?

[Fallen Prophet]

Summary: Why do you believe in God? What do you find to be the most compelling evidence that God exists?

Long Version:
I have found that I am getting frustrated at the thought of people who do not listen to reason, logic, evidence, and facts. You may have noticed this frustration seeping into the conversations I have on RF. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just angry at you for not seeing what I see, which is not really fair. I'll will try to have more patience and explain things more clearly in the future.

One way to influence others is to first be influenced by them. In other words, seek first to understand, then to be understood. Maybe I would be less frustrated if I actually knew the reasons why you believe in God. Help me understand, and in turn I will respectfully respond, and if you care to hear I will respond with the reasons why I don't believe in God.

Thank you in advance for the conversation

I believe in God because I experimented upon His Word and received the promised result.

"If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." (John 7:17)

 

[F1fan]

I believe in God because I experimented upon His Word and received the promised result.

Awesome. Describe the test so we atheists can see if we have the same results.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Well that certainly is the case for those children who suffer and die from cancer

Have you ever wondered why people always bring up children in these discussions, usually the same people who approve of abortion? Is a child dying worse because they are younger? Death always sucks regardless of whether it's a child or not. " Religion" explains why we hate death, because it's not our original state, it's not what humans are created for..we know intuitively that death is an invader. In the dog each dog evolution theory, it's just there...we really should shrug at it if we are just animals. If there's no God to decide our fate, we are just plant food because that's all we are good for, and death is just natural. I think people don't want to believe in God because they don't like the idea of someone having any control over their lives.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Awesome. Describe the test so we atheists can see if we have the same results.

Just like with any test - you would first need to acquire knowledge of the topic.

So - learning about God - His traits and attributes - as well as His desires and motivations - then His commandments and promises.

In the scriptures - whenever a believer encountered someone akin to an atheist - they would start from the beginning - even Adam and Eve - and recount all the recorded dealings of God with Man from that time until the present.

Then the first test would be a simple prayer - asked in humility and with sincerity - with the merest desire to believe - if what they had been taught was true.

Basically - the petitioner would need to be willing to actually act on the answer given - not just sate their curiosity.

This test requires a willingness for the petitioner to sacrifice their sins in order to know God.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Awesome. Describe the test so we atheists can see if we have the same results.

You might try repeating these words, every day for two weeks;

“Take my will, take my life, guide me through my difficulties, show me how to live.”

If you find you can’t do this with willingness, open mindedness and honesty, then you can pray for these qualities. If you don’t think you have any difficulties, or none that you need guiding through, I feel sorry for you.

Good luck (and God bless).

 

[PureX]

What about what Bob wanted? Is Bob just a mindless drone following a script of expectations? Why can't Bob just be a good guy with empathy and made his own decision? Does he really need to give the credit to a God we aren't certain exists?

Some people want to be better than they are. And to do that they need help from outside themselves. Ever try to quit smoking? It's very difficult, and we need all the help to do it that we can get. Faith in God helps people to do better and be better people than they are. It gives them a focus, and an added reason to try.

Yet atheists do the same thing without faith in God, nor having to think a God is involved. Explain.

Do they? Or do they just think they're perfect already?

 

[PureX]

What about those creepy televangelists who swindle old people for donations? Are they doing God's work?

They aren't stealing. They are exploiting. You know, just like every major corporation in America does. Think Walmart.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You are saved from self destruction through the blood of God's son. This life with it's struggle is an eye blink in the bigger picture.

Weird that we all are still considered dirty sinners then.

But again, how does that absolve us of our bad behaviors, and what's moral about scapegoating our responsibilities onto someone else?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Oh he gets it exactly right.

Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Yes, as your last post so thoroughly demonstrated.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Everyone needs a substitute, it's silly to pretend you have lived a perfect life...

No, everybody does not "need a substitute." What they need to do, if they are practicing morality is to take responsibility for their own actions instead of trying to put them off onto someone else.

Nobody is pretending to be living a perfect life. No idea why you keep saying that.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Your opinion of what love is isn't what's important because you, as a mere human, are subject to all kinds of human emotions and false ideas.

My opinion of what love is, is of the upmost importance to me.

I can't love someone/thing that I am also told I must simultaneously fear. How you get love out of that, I don't know.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Anyone who is Biblical would be saying it's God who can heal and that they are only the channel he may or may not choose to work through.

Great, then let them get on down to the children's hospital or the amputee hospital and have them get to work channeling God to heal some sick kids and amputees.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Of course i believe the Bible. I also believe that the God big enough to make the rules has the authority to break the rules he made when he decides to.

Thanks for explaining how God is immoral.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I see you have no understanding of what transcendence is.
Just by virtue of being God, he has to make decisions we never will. If you had all knowledge, would that not make a difference in your understanding of morality? I find it ironic that you think God has to abide by his moral absolutes for us when without him morality is completely subjective.

You just explained how morality is "completely subjective" with God.
Oops.

First understand that everybody who dies, dies because God wills that they die. No ones death takes God by surprise. God by virtue of being all powerful, decides when your last heartbeat will be. As a human you don't have that right for anyone else.
God is not obligated to give us life us at all. He doesn't owe us anything.

These are just claims, not in evidence.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You might try repeating these words, every day for two weeks;

“Take my will, take my life, guide me through my difficulties, show me how to live.”

If you find you can’t do this with willingness, open mindedness and honesty, then you can pray for these qualities. If you don’t think you have any difficulties, or none that you need guiding through, I feel sorry for you.

Good luck (and God bless).

Long before I was an atheist, I was a Christian (as were many atheists).

I've tried this stuff many times. It didn't work. I didn't see any Gods. I didn't communicate with any Gods. Nothing.
So now what?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Have you ever wondered why people always bring up children in these discussions, usually the same people who approve of abortion? Is a child dying worse because they are younger?

Are you serious? Because children are young and innocent. And yes, dying young is worse than dying old, in general. Especially if you only get one life.

Death always sucks regardless of whether it's a child or not. " Religion" explains why we hate death, because it's not our original state, it's not what humans are created for..we know intuitively that death is an invader.

Death sucks because it means our loved one is gone and we don't get to have them in our lives anymore. We miss them and wish they were still with us.
Death sucks for ourselves because living is generally preferable to death. Especially if we only get one life.

Death doesn't always suck though. When my grandfather died, while we wished he were still with us and we missed him (and still do), we were also relieved because he was in so much pain in his last days, and just wanted it to end because it was so excruciating. Sometimes death can be a blessing.

In the dog each dog evolution theory, it's just there...we really should shrug at it if we are just animals. If there's no God to decide our fate, we are just plant food because that's all we are good for, and death is just natural. I think people don't want to believe in God because they don't like the idea of someone having any control over their lives.

I don't think there is any God deciding anyone's fate. And I don't need one to understand that human life has value. Especially if we only get the one.

This just sounds like weird Christian apologetics that people use to demonize atheists who obviously just want to sin and not be accountable to anyone. I.e. It's garbage.
I'm accountable to every other human on the planet. I take responsibility for my own actions, instead of pushing them off onto some human sacrifice scapegoat

 

[F1fan]

Some people want to be better than they are. And to do that they need help from outside themselves. Ever try to quit smoking? It's very difficult, and we need all the help to do it that we can get. Faith in God helps people to do better and be better people than they are. It gives them a focus, and an added reason to try.

What you are describing here is people seeking support, and this tends to come from other people. Even the "God" you refer to is a system of support that comes from a community of theists who believe the same thing, not an actual God. God can be used as a sort of mental framework that is what people in psychology and sports called visualization. This is the imagination creating scenarios that the self aims to model. The way people improve themselves is by learning and developing discipline. Relying on God for hope is like 12-Step programs and these are notoriously unreliable. People learn quickly that creating and marinating an illusion is a lot of work, and when the self has to play the role of God, and be the self, it can break down at some point and the person feels even more powerless to face real temptations.

Not everyone can help themselves through belief and illusion to fool the self.

Do they? Or do they just think they're perfect already?

Of course they do. You sound a bit cynical here as if atheists aren't capable of being moral and charitable on their own wits.

 

[F1fan]

They aren't stealing. They are exploiting. You know, just like every major corporation in America does. Think Walmart.

There's a lot going on here. You admit Christians are exploitive, but then try to minimize it by suggesting it's just a normal business practice and we should accept it.

These Christians aren't offering a real product like gas or cell phones, they offer a manipulated message that has no actual material benefit. It's a con. All the victims get from these Christians is blatant lies. That they get away with this con because it is religion and given a lot of leeway makes it even more egregious and immoral. These Christians use the trust they have with their audience to exploit their emotions and fear and extort money from them. They use Christian dogma, the Bible, and God to perform this fraud. And all you can say about them is it's extortion on par with corporate practices, which means legal and acceptable.

You can't even bring yourself to condemn these crooks. I've seen you more critical of Dawkins than these frauds.

 

[F1fan]

No, everybody does not "need a substitute." What they need to do, if they are practicing morality is to take responsibility for their own actions instead of trying to put them off onto someone else.

Nobody is pretending to be living a perfect life. No idea why you keep saying that.

Good point. I just responded to PureX wrote

Do they? Or do they just think they're perfect already?

In response to me explaining that atheists can be moral without belief in a God. There seems a pattern where theists are trying to known down atheists by suggesting they think themselves as perfect, they destined to be flawed. I'm not sure where this is coming from, atheists aren't referring to themselves as perfect, only that atheists can be moral without belief in God, and theists take offense to this.

 

[F1fan]

F1fan wants to pretend that everything is due to evolutionary "brain wiring" so there will be no possibility that faith in God ever had anything to do with anything good any human has ever done.

It's so cute.

By all means offer the discussion a better explanation that is based on facts. Don't mention a God unless you can demonstrate it exists as a real phenomenon, and not as a religious belief.

If you can't, well we have biology and other sciences to explain why the human brain does what it does, including how the human brain is so readily attracted to religious belief, and even conspiracy theories.