Fuhrer Trump: No muslim welcome for 4 months

[Terrywoodenpic]

Its not being challenged it her sticking attitude, what is wrong with her, I will not go on any further with someone like that, she is full of hate right from the start, I prefer to talk to someone who is intelligent !!.

I rather doubt any intelligent person would want to be associated with your views.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

We'll find out won't we.


Not overly concerned with that, I think the results are the most important thing. As said above, I'm going to get what I want. If it turns out that we don't get an increase in Christian refugees because they are using other methods of immigration or staying in other countries and it was just a lack of demand, I'll recant my position. If we do have an increase, will you?

No, I won't. Because results aren't the most important thing. Establishing actual causation is. If Christians are given a free pass while everyone else is stuck (for no good goddamn reason), then that WILL effect the numbers, but not tell you why the numbers were presenting that way in the first place.

 

[Curious George]

No, I don't need intent; I have results. I also never claimed intent; I claimed disregard/a paucity of concern for the lack of Christian refugees. Which the results and that there was nothing done to rectify them, until Trump, shows.
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Boy oh boy, if intent is no longer needed to prove discrimination when a law or act leads to disparity, the u.s. will be rife with lawsuits. So, yes you do need intent.

 

[Scuba Pete]

that until he goes to the extreme that Hitler did, any equivalency is going to be no more truthful than comparing him to Gandi.

Ghandi? You think he's just as comparable to Ghandi? Well, that says a lot right there? Other than posting the fewer meme, I don't think I've called him Hitler. However, if you read my previous link, you would see that this is how Hitler got his start... sort of. Hitler was a bit more popular than Trump, but for the very same reasons. He pandered to religious bigotry only it's Muslims this time instead of Jews. Don't make the same mistake and -wait-. ACT NOW!!!

 

[Scuba Pete]

There was an effective ban on Christian refugees here under Obama;

Citation needed. I don't believe that there was ever an Executive Order for this. Furthermore, it smells like this is the same sort of hateful invented crap that was leveled at Obama for the last eight years.

 

[Mister Emu]

No, I won't.

Ahh, that's too bad. Not that I expected it.

Establishing actual causation is.

Which is exactly what I am describing. If the main thing that changes is American policy and all of the sudden lots of Syrian Christians come in, then obviously American policy was at issue. Basic experimental theory, change a variable and see what happens.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Boy oh boy, if intent is no longer needed to prove discrimination when a law or act leads to disparity, the u.s. will be rife with lawsuits. So, yes you do need intent.

I do not see that there was any intent to discriminate against Christian refugees.
More likely, it is that there were fewer applicants offering them selves to be processed.

No country has so far sent teams in, to locate and extract potential Christian refugees.
It would be dangerous both to them and the extraction teams and would require a massive military support on the ground.
It is true that many Christians are in great danger in the Middle East. but it is exceedingly difficult to help them with out increasing that danger.

 

[Mister Emu]

Boy oh boy, if intent is no longer needed to prove discrimination when a law or act leads to disparity, the u.s. will be rife with lawsuits. So, yes you do need intent.

I introduce to you: Disparate Impact. The U.S. legal theory that even a formally neutral rule is illegally discriminatory if it disparately impacts a protected group, such as members of a religion. There is no need to show intent.

Citation needed.

I already gave the numbers. 10% of Syrians are Christian, 1/2 of 1 percent of our refugees from Syria are Christian.

I don't believe that there was ever an Executive Order for this.

Effective vs. directly ordered. It was an impact in his method of selecting refugees, and it weeded out Christians.

Furthermore, it smells like this is the same sort of hateful invented crap that was leveled at Obama for the last eight years.

Well, it is a factual reality. We only let in 68 Christian Syrian refugees compared to a total of 12,587.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Well, it is a factual reality. We only let in 68 Christian Syrian refugees compared to a total of 12,587.

How many Christians applied to enter?
How many Christians were processed?
How many Christians were rejected?
To arrive at that 68 figure.
That 68 might represent 100% acceptance for all you or I know.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Let's wait until he starts talking about Muslimerein, rounds up Muslim nationals into camps, opens buildings for gassing and burning their bodies, and has his doctors conduct experiments on live Muslims - before we start drawing parallels to Hitler.

Absolutely. Let's wait until the worst is accomplished before warning that the worst is yet to come.

We don't need to make false equivalencies to increase shock impact in order to express the wrongness of Trump's decisions.

Nor do we need to falsely categorize informed and informative comparisons as false equivalencies. There is some truth in Santayana warning: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

 

[Revoltingest]

Absolutely. Let's wait until the worst is accomplished before warning that the worst is yet to come.

If you're convinced that the death camps are inevitable,
& that we can't wait for him to even begin talking of them,
this suggests taking action more extreme than simply
advocating for civil liberties. After all, he is Hitler reanmiated.
What different action should we take to prevent this?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If you're convinced that the death camps are inevitable, ...

I do not recall ever saying such a thing.

 

[Revoltingest]

I do not recall ever saying such a thing.

No, but your response to Tumah about not waiting for such talk strongly suggests inevitability of what he broached.
If we can't wait, what is it we should do now?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

No, but your response to Tumah about not waiting for such talk strongly suggests inevitability of what he broached.

Rubbish.

 

[Revoltingest]

Rubbish.

No, that won't do.
You & many others here make some terrifying predictions.
It's not politics as usual, so this strongly suggests doing
something different from usual. What would this be?
Or do you not advocate any change in our actions?

These are real questions....neither rhetorical nor traps.

 

[pearl]

Fuhrer Trump has done it again, as the Joint Chiefs are dropped from security meetings, Banon is added!

There was a clear warning from Ben Franklin;
Upon exiting the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin was approached by a group of citizens asking what sort of government the delegates had created. His answer was: "A republic, if you can keep it." The brevity of that response should not cause us to under-value its essential meaning: democratic republics are not merely founded upon the consent of the people, they are also absolutely dependent upon the active and informed involvement of the people for their continued good health. Another warning from Thomas Jefferson, 'even under the "best forms" of government, those entrusted with power have, in time...perverted it into tyranny. The most effectual means of preventing this is to illuminate...the minds of the people."

"That is how the Roman republic fell," Augustus became emperor not because he arrested the Roman senate. He became emperor because he promised that he would solve problems that were not being solved." Justice Souter

 

[esmith]

We're talking about humans here. Not snakes. Not dogs. Not scum. Please stop trying to justify your bigotry. You might as well don a white robe and hood. These comments are simply disgusting.

No we are talking about taking a closer look at our immigration and refugee policy and until a better means, if possible, of insuring that those that wish us dead are not getting into the country.
As far as terrorist of any ilk, I put them in the non-human category.
Take a closer look at what is going on in Europe, do you want those problems here.
Another example of what could happen here
Report: Afghan Migrants Arrested in Facebook Live Rape Case

 

[pearl]

Now enter Steven Bannon to the National Security Council, and exit the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

Trump gives Bannon NSC role

I also found it interesting and troubling that none of the countries that Trump does business with is on
the list of countries banned from entering the USA.
Countries where Trump does business are not hit by new travel restrictions

 

[Drolefille]

Is it possible that you are having a separate dialogue with yourself? On the last page you entered saying "good..." this was referring to the executive order of "extreme vetting." You then went on to say that Obama let people in without going through the proper channels. You were challenged to provide your sources that this happened and you responded that the challenger was wrong. The challenger then responded that they were not your "friend" and asked you not to patronize them by referring to them as such. Your response? You questioned whether they had any friends. I don't see them attacking you, however your implication was easily interpreted as an attack. If you were "defending" yourself from the challenge of being wrong, why not simply offer evidence that Obama let people into the country without going through the proper channels as you had claimed?

Thanks CG

Its not being challenged it her sticking attitude, what is wrong with her, I will not go on any further with someone like that, she is full of hate right from the start, I prefer to talk to someone who is intelligent !!.

Yes I do, but she was so disgusting in her attitude, that it made me say things that I wouldn't normally say, can you understand that, I was hurt by her......I'll finish here before I say too much.

If I have hurt you in some way I cannot fathom, I apologize. I genuinely don't hate anyone in this world and frankly I pity people with bigoted, shortsighted, biased beliefs.
However I ask you to take responsibility for your own actions, because neither me nor my attitude will take that blame. Continuing to call me unintelligent and make other personal attacks will be reported in violation of forum rules.

 

[Curious George]

I introduce to you: Disparate Impact. The U.S. legal theory that even a formally neutral rule is illegally discriminatory if it disparately impacts a protected group, such as members of a religion. There is no need to show intent.

You should understand more about the legal theories involved here. You need intent/purpose as well. Sorry to burst you bubble. Now there are a few instances where this may not be the case but the general rule is that the plaintiff must show more than disparate Impact or treatment alone. This is going to be especially necessary when looking at immigrants and refugees. Given the religious makeup of other immigrant populations allowed to enter, i.e. Iraq, your argument holds little water. The question you are asking is why didn't the u.s. pay special favor to Christian refugees.