G-D's Son Is Israel- Not Jesus

[Saint Frankenstein]

I really don't see what the point of this thread is. It's not like Christians and religious Jews are going to agree unless God intervenes and sets one or the other of us straight, so might as well drop it.

 

[metis]

I really don't see what the point of this thread is. It's not like Christians and religious Jews are going to agree unless God intervenes and sets one or the other of us straight, so might as well drop it.

Yes, and that's why I really don't get into such discussions over which religion is supposedly correct. Why should I try and undermine someone else's faith? To me, if Whatever faith makes one a better person, I'm all for that.

 

[JayJayDee]

Yes, and that's why I really don't get into such discussions over which religion is supposedly correct. Why should I try and undermine someone else's faith? To me, if Whatever faith makes one a better person, I'm all for that.

Metis, you know that this attitude is not the one promoted in scripture. The true God demands exclusive devotion by a united people who obey his laws and live by his principles. Why were the Jews told to accept proselytes into Judaism, if just being a better person was all that was necessary? These ones had to become Jews in every way, even though they were not truly Jewish by birth. It was a requirement.

So many today are spiritually lost....searching for the truth. How can one make an informed choice without being able to read interchanges like this? Public debate, outlining the facts (and even highlighting some twisted half truths) enlightens people and gives them something to mull over. False perceptions are everywhere so threads like this can clear up some of those.
When people cannot defend or explain their beliefs from scripture, then it is a red flag to many.

What is the point of having choices if we do not avail ourselves of all the facts....then and only then can we reach an informed conclusion.

These forums give people food for thought. How is that a bad thing?

 

[metis]

Metis, you know that this attitude is not the one promoted in scripture. The true God demands exclusive devotion by a united people who obey his laws and live by his principles. Why were the Jews told to accept proselytes into Judaism, if just being a better person was all that was necessary? These ones had to become Jews in every way, even though they were not truly Jewish by birth. It was a requirement.

How we may look at scripture and interpret it is highly variable from religion to religion and even within any religion itself. My "brand" of Judaism is more along the line of Spinoza's concepts, and if you want to discuss this we can either do that here or on a separate thread.

I'm a Jew operating within the Jewish community whereas I'm very active within my synagogue, so I don't think I have to take directions from you on what being a Jew is. We are not a monolithic people, much like Christianity is not monolithic.

So many today are spiritually lost....searching for the truth. How can one make an informed choice without being able to read interchanges like this? Public debate, outlining the facts (and even highlighting some twisted half truths) enlightens people and gives them something to mull over. False perceptions are everywhere so threads like this can clear up some of those.
When people cannot defend or explain their beliefs from scripture, then it is a red flag to many.

I do not and have not questioned the basic morality of forums like RF, and why would I even be here if I felt such discussions were wrong? I have no idea where you seemingly think that I oppose discussion and exchange of information and opinions.

What is the point of having choices if we do not avail ourselves of all the facts....then and only then can we reach an informed conclusion.

These forums give people food for thought. How is that a bad thing?

See above, and I cannot figure out how you managed to jump to the conclusions that you apparently did. I don't negatively judge other religions because we're dealing with an area that is high conjectural and whereas it's darn near impossible to prove right or wrong.

Also, as a Jew familiar with Torah, our concern is much more about moral actions than with having politically-correct beliefs about God. One of our greatest sages, Moses Maimonides, said that there is far more that we don't know about God than we do know. As Jews, we don't judge people, but the unfortunate reality is that there are those who are so willing to judge others, and I believe that's quite unethical.

Over the years I've come to realize this: some only talk the talk, but I have much more admiration for those whom walk the walk, regardless of their religious affiliation.

 

[CMike]

You forgot that one little word..."IF".

The covenant was conditional. Failure on Israel's part to keep their part of the contract would invalidate it. It should have lasted forever, but they just couldn't keep their worship from getting contaminated. They failed to keep God's commands as they vowed to do.

God fulfilled his part and brought the Messiah into the world as a human child, born of a virgin in Bethlehem in King David's family line and when he was of age, he submitted himself to John's baptism and was anointed as Israel's Messiah in 29 C.E. The rest as they say, is history.

There were no "ifs" in the passages I quoted.

As G-D said the covenant between G-D and Jews is eternal.

The part regarding the Jewish messiah is just sheer nonsense.

 

[CMike]

Dear Mike,
The term "Jews" is inclusive of only two tribes of Israel, plus the Levites. Moses existed during the time before the Northern tribes, described as Israel, were separated from the Southern Tribes, described as Judah. The term "Jew" was not in Mose's lexicon.

Okay, fine, the Hebrews of the time. Happy?

 

[Harmonious]

Lets start with one, then work from there.

None comes to the Father but through me.

That is pure idolatry. I'll dissect more later, but that's one severe problem.

 

[Harmonious]

You forgot that one little word..."IF".

The covenant was conditional.

No. The covenant was NOT conditional. It was eternal.

Living in the Land of Israel, and living in relative peace was conditional. Not the covenant.

 

[JayJayDee]

Metis....this is what I was responding to.....
You said.......
"Yes, and that's why I really don't get into such discussions over which religion is supposedly correct. Why should I try and undermine someone else's faith? To me, if Whatever faith makes one a better person, I'm all for that."

How did I jump to the conclusions I did? Look at what you said.....

I took your words to mean that our choice of religion doesn't matter as long as we become better people. Is that what you meant to say and is that true from the scriptural perspective? IOW, Is this what God says? Are atheists who are good humanitarians acceptable to God? If not, why not?

Are we not under obligation to help others to come to the worship of the only true God? Why would we stand silent whilst people walk blindly into something that will lead to their death? False worship is designed to separate people from God. If God's adversary cannot win (and he knows he can't) he will take as many down with him as he can......will we be among them? That is the question.

Interpretation of scripture is a matter of whose interpretation we accept as the right one. If 'your' Judaism has many "brands", then we have to ask if that fits with what God initiated in the beginning. Did God leave room for sectarianism in his worship? To me the answer to that is a resounding NO!

There were 12 tribes originally, all descendants of Abraham, but Israel split when the 10 tribes separated from the two remaining tribes. Unfaithfulness has haunted Israel all the days of its existence, interspersed with relatively brief periods of obedience and blessing, but always going back to their old ways. Since the Messiah was to come from the tribe of Judah, this is the one we concentrate on....no?

Our whole future depends on choosing the right faith because the devil has introduced all the false ones. He not only created religions where humans promoted the worship of false deities, but God's adversary also managed to corrupt true worship by introducing false ideas about the true God. He accomplished it with Judaism and he has done exactly the same with Christendom.

Babel means confusion.....and Babylon was the place where all false worship originated....it is older than Israel, and the land of Canaan was rife with its teachings before it was gifted to God's people. If only they had obeyed God's instructions and refrained from adopting the ways of those wicked nations. (Deut 18:9-12)

Who can deny that religion creates the most confusion of all in the world today? "Babylon the great" mentioned in the Revelation, is the sum total of all worship that is out of harmony with the teachings of the true God. It is the devil's empire from which he gains the worship he wants.

If we are found in "Babylon the great" when the judgment comes, we will suffer the same punishment that God has reserved for this most disgusting "city" who exercises a kingdom over the kings of the earth. (Rev 18:4, 5) The political elements are getting tired religion's interference in their affairs and it is prophesied that the kings with whom she has had intimate relations will turn on her and completely destroy her.....Look at the world now and see that it is gearing up for the demise of religion. It has been all but eliminated from the public school systems and is missing from institutions of higher learning. More and more nations are leaning towards secularism as their citizens become less spiritual. Even Israel is a political nation...not a spiritual one.

It s just a matter of time now and we will stand before the judge of all the earth. Are we ready?

 

[CMike]

Well, the mere suggestion that anyone can kill God is rather absurd.
My God is your God according to my scriptures. He is the God of Jesus too. He is the God of Jesus' disciples as well, since Jesus never claimed to be God incarnate.

I don't have much time to go paragraph by paragraph so I'll see how far I can get.

However, I do agree that jesus was not any type of god, nor did he have any divine power. He was a simple mortal human.

There was no way for Jews to execute Christ unless they threatened to report the Governor for treason. According to the gospels, that is exactly what they did. Pilate washed his hands of the blood of the innocent man brought before him, but he had him flogged to appease the Jews and handed him over for execution anyway. When Jesus asked that God forgive the ones who were hanging him up, he was not talking about the Jews...he was referring to the Roman soldiers who had no idea who he was and didn't really care.
The men who orchestrated the execution bear the responsibility for it.

Pilate cared nothing about appeasing Jews. He was a brutal dictator. He was so bloodthirsty, that even the Roman government sent him back. That is saying a lot.

It's revealing how Christians blame Jews for what the Romans did, and try to shift the blame for the killing of their god from the Romans to the Jews, whom had no power at the time.

Even Adam was a son of God. (Luke 3:38) Claiming to be God's son only meant that he was created by his Father. Are you not a son of your father....?
Weren't messengers sent from heaven to deliver instruction to God's earthly servants on occasion? Wasn't Abraham visited by three angels whom he entertained when they delivered the news about the birth of Isaac? Why is it a stretch that God should send his most trusted messenger to become the Messiah?

The Messiah will be a mortal man. In fact, it's not even the Messiah himself that is important, it's the Messianic age that will occur. All power comes from G-D.

Just as Moses was mediator of the old covenant, so Jesus was mediator of the new covenant. The "prophet like Moses" was prophesied by Moses himself in your own scripture. (Deut 18:15)

Moses was not a mediator, and it's not the "old covenant". Any person can speak, and should speak, directly to G-D. Moses stated that there will be other prophets. However, Moses will always be the greatest of all the prophets.

Under the law the blood sacrifice was to atone for sins, wasn't it?
Whose blood atones now? On what basis is forgiveness obtained now that animal sacrifice is no longer practised?

Animal sacrifice was only for unintentional sins, with one exception. The way you get forgiveness is for atoning for sins and doing your best to not do the sins again.

Exactly. Jesus came to forgive sins committed as a result of Adam's disobedience, not the deliberate actions of one who sins willfully.

Jesus had no power to forgive any sins, other than sins done directly to him. We are all responsible for dealing with our own sins.

The equivalency was literal because those who illegally took a life, paid with their own. Even those who took life accidentally had a sentence imposed on them. Compensation could not be made by a murderer except in the loss of his own life.

Eh?

Joseph was considered the legal father of Jesus.

It doesn't matter. Tribal lineage goes by biological father. If the biological father is unknown then there is no tribal lineage the child is considered part of the general population.

But why would God give a perfect law to imperfect people who were not able to keep it? It condemned them. Christ's sacrifice took it out of the way and made all further blood sacrifice unnecessary.

G-D said in Deuterenomy that none of the sins are beyond our reach. Also we don't have to keep all the laws 100% of the time. The way you get closer to G-D is by resisting the temptation to sin. That's the purpose.

And no Jesus getting killed by the romans have absolutely nothing to do with our sins.

This also opened the way for Gentiles to be brought into the new covenant.

Actually non Jews only need to keep the 7 laws given to Noach.

The laws are perfect, but the people are not. God knew that no one could keep the law perfectly, so it was a constant reminder of their need for their messiah to come and rescue them.

As I stated G-D said none of the law are out of reach. He wouldn't expect us to keep everything perfectly. No where does he state that we have to.

Why do you suppose that the temple, which was the centre of Jewish worship for centuries, was not rebuilt after Jesus died?

Because the Messiah hasn't come yet. That's one of the messianic prophesies. That the temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt and stand forever. Instead the opposite occurred right after jesus, it was destroyed.

Jesus never once told the Jews to fail to keep the law. As other prophets before him, he was used by God to correct his people...they not only ignored him as their forefathers had done, they silenced him as they had done before.

Jesus had nothing to do with Judaism. No Jewish prophet would ever claim to have divine power or that people had to go through him to reach G-D. He was a false god.

He exposed the Pharisees' ridiculously legal approach to the law, he did not tell people to disobey the law itself.

The ridiculous legal approach that G-D told them to follow.

 

[roger1440]

None comes to the Father but through me.

That is pure idolatry. I'll dissect more later, but that's one severe problem.

If it was reworded as "None comes to God but through the Torah" would that be ok?

 

[rosends]

Metis, you know that this attitude is not the one promoted in scripture. The true God demands exclusive devotion by a united people who obey his laws and live by his principles. Why were the Jews told to accept proselytes into Judaism, if just being a better person was all that was necessary? These ones had to become Jews in every way, even though they were not truly Jewish by birth. It was a requirement.

So many today are spiritually lost....searching for the truth. How can one make an informed choice without being able to read interchanges like this? Public debate, outlining the facts (and even highlighting some twisted half truths) enlightens people and gives them something to mull over. False perceptions are everywhere so threads like this can clear up some of those.
When people cannot defend or explain their beliefs from scripture, then it is a red flag to many.

What is the point of having choices if we do not avail ourselves of all the facts....then and only then can we reach an informed conclusion.

These forums give people food for thought. How is that a bad thing?

Just a quick note -- Jews were not told TO accept proselytes. There is no commandment to convince others or to bring others in to Judaism. They were given rules so that they COULD accept proselytes if someone else was moved to accept Judaism. One community today refuses all converts to Judaism, and not to force people to suffer and lose out on something. And if one does not want to convert, that's OK also according to Judaism. Judaism doesn't see itself as the only and required way to recognize and worship God.

 

[Harmonious]

If it was reworded as "None comes to God but through the Torah" would that be ok?

Nope. Anyone can have a relationship with God. Non-Jews, who have no obligation to follow the Torah, can have a relationship with God.

Jews' relationship is better defined by the Torah, but even without the Torah, Jews can have a relationship with God.

 

[roger1440]

Nope. Anyone can have a relationship with God. Non-Jews, who have no obligation to follow the Torah, can have a relationship with God.

Jews' relationship is better defined by the Torah, but even without the Torah, Jews can have a relationship with God.

Anyway, I think that is the meaning or close to it. It's not about worshiping some dead guy.

 

[Harmonious]

Anyway, I think that is the meaning or close to it. It's not about worshiping some dead guy.

Interesting.

 

[metis]

Metis....this is what I was responding to.....
You said.......
"Yes, and that's why I really don't get into such discussions over which religion is supposedly correct. Why should I try and undermine someone else's faith? To me, if Whatever faith makes one a better person, I'm all for that."

How did I jump to the conclusions I did? Look at what you said.....

I took your words to mean that our choice of religion doesn't matter as long as we become better people. Is that what you meant to say and is that true from the scriptural perspective? IOW, Is this what God says? Are atheists who are good humanitarians acceptable to God? If not, why not?

Which "scriptural perspective"? I'm not joking here as I simply do not buy into the concept that only the Bible deals with God and that it somehow is the only book that matters. To me, the Bible is one of many scriptures that try to deal with the issue of God, but I have very strong doubts that any one of them somehow has a lock on the Truth.

Even if the Bible were to be 100% accurate, the emphasis in Torah is much more on our moral or immoral actions than on politically-correct beliefs.

Are we not under obligation to help others to come to the worship of the only true God? Why would we stand silent whilst people walk blindly into something that will lead to their death? False worship is designed to separate people from God. If God's adversary cannot win (and he knows he can't) he will take as many down with him as he can......will we be among them? That is the question.

First of all, I don't worship in the conventional sense of the word. Secondly, why would worship change anything? Wouldn't it be rather pretentious on my part to ask God to change that which is in motion just for my sake?

Therefore, to me, "false worship" is more along the line of being self-centered and myopic, thus expecting God to do our bidding. Instead, I much prefer to take the route of meditation and contemplation, namely to try and understand things better and then act in a moral manner.

Interpretation of scripture is a matter of whose interpretation we accept as the right one. If 'your' Judaism has many "brands", then we have to ask if that fits with what God initiated in the beginning. Did God leave room for sectarianism in his worship? To me the answer to that is a resounding NO!

There very much can be correct interpretations, but determining which interpretations are the correct ones is certainly not a "gimme". Secondly, I do not pretend to know what God's intentions are, if any. When we consider the simple fact that we cannot even objectively ascertain whether there's a God, I have found it increasingly problematic that anyone can even get close to determining how to describe God and then trying to exactly know what God supposedly wants.

And maybe there's more than one God? How could I or anyone else actually know the answer to that, and belief is not the same as actually knowing? Each of us undoubtedly have at some time believed in some things that turned out not to be true.

If we strut around claiming that we know "the answers", I do believe we are deluding ourselves. Instead, I much prefer the "student approach", namely that I got a lot to yet learn.

There were 12 tribes originally, all descendants of Abraham, but Israel split when the 10 tribes separated from the two remaining tribes. Unfaithfulness has haunted Israel all the days of its existence, interspersed with relatively brief periods of obedience and blessing, but always going back to their old ways. Since the Messiah was to come from the tribe of Judah, this is the one we concentrate on....no?...

The issue of the "Messiah" is much more of a question to me than an answer, and I simply don't get hung up on it. It's like asking if we're part of a multiverse? It's nice question for curiosity's sake but not terribly important to actually know the answer at this time.

 

[JayJayDee]

Which "scriptural perspective"? I'm not joking here as I simply do not buy into the concept that only the Bible deals with God and that it somehow is the only book that matters. To me, the Bible is one of many scriptures that try to deal with the issue of God, but I have very strong doubts that any one of them somehow has a lock on the Truth.

When one claims to be of a particular religious persuasion, it always amazes me that the "scripture" associated with that belief system can be accepted or rejected, based on personal opinion, yet one still claims adherence to that religion...? If you reject the basis for it, how is it still yours?

"Scripture" is the "holy writings" on which a faith is normally based....if you reject some or all of it, then how is it "holy"? How can a Jew reject the word of God and remain Jewish? That to me, is tantamount to rejecting God himself.

Even if the Bible were to be 100% accurate, the emphasis in Torah is much more on our moral or immoral actions than on politically-correct beliefs.

The Bible is a guidebook. It tells us what to do, or not to do, in any given situation. Either in a law or a principle, it provides a path to follow. If we believe it is the word of God, we will not pick and choose what suits us....we will follow it to the letter. The ancient Jews were told to do this.
God told them to 'strictly obey his voice' but in too many instances they chose not to. Did those occasions ever end well for them?

First of all, I don't worship in the conventional sense of the word. Secondly, why would worship change anything? Wouldn't it be rather pretentious on my part to ask God to change that which is in motion just for my sake?

Actually what I would consider "worship" would involve a deep love and respect for my Creator, to whom I owe my breath and existence. I am not free to use my gift of life selfishly or to entertain doubts even about His existence.

The scriptures are very specific about worship, so what is the point of offering something to God that is half hearted? The sacrifices offered in Israel had to be the best they had. Offering lame or blind animals was an indication that love for God was not genuine. They were unacceptable.
It's an all or nothing kind of deal. We don't get to dictate the terms......

Therefore, to me, "false worship" is more along the line of being self-centered and myopic, thus expecting God to do our bidding. Instead, I much prefer to take the route of meditation and contemplation, namely to try and understand things better and then act in a moral manner.

What is "false worship" to God? Shouldn't that be the question?
It's not about what "we" want....it's about what God requires. If we are not prepared to live the life we have been given, the way God wants us to live it, then what are we telling God every day?

Continuing life was conditional from day one. It required absolute obedience in order to keep living, yet there was no hardship that resulted from that obedience. Life was meant to be wonderful, yet disobedience resulted in misery and death for everyone. Continuing disobedience to God's commands perpetuates the awful events that man's inhumanity continues to carry on to this day.
Will man ever learn? Obviously not.

There very much can be correct interpretations, but determining which interpretations are the correct ones is certainly not a "gimme".

God's adversary is very busy in the world. His stamp is on every atrocity and every selfish action.....the truth is available to all, but not all will see it.
Something is in the way.....human selfishness. People are so busy looking for the religion or lifestyle that suits them, that they dismiss the only one that suits God. There is not more than one truth, and only when we have the right attitude, will God allow us to find it.

Secondly, I do not pretend to know what God's intentions are, if any. When we consider the simple fact that we cannot even objectively ascertain whether there's a God, I have found it increasingly problematic that anyone can even get close to determining how to describe God and then trying to exactly know what God supposedly wants.

God's intentions are clearly stated in Genesis. This book sets the groundwork for all the rest. Its theme is carried through to Revelation....it is one story.

We have to be people of faith......that isn't something we can just go to the supermarket and buy. We have to build it like a wall...one brick at a time.

The Bible writer James made an interesting statement...

" So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him keep asking in faith, not doubting at all, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7 In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from Jehovah; 8 he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways." (James 1:5-8)

This describes so many people. They want God to please them, when it should be the other way around. Doubt acts as a barrier to spiritual growth.

And maybe there's more than one God? How could I or anyone else actually know the answer to that, and belief is not the same as actually knowing? Each of us undoubtedly have at some time believed in some things that turned out not to be true.

How does someone with an attitude like this turn up at a synagogue, or any other place of worship? Who are you pleasing by going there? Do others share your doubts?
I don't understand. Why do you bother? God might exist or he might not? Maybe there are other gods? Really?

If we strut around claiming that we know "the answers", I do believe we are deluding ourselves. Instead, I much prefer the "student approach", namely that I got a lot to yet learn.

Even students can have faith. Confidence is not "strutting"...it is an expression of that faith. We are perpetual students...even our teachers are always learning. There are answers...God provides them.

The issue of the "Messiah" is much more of a question to me than an answer, and I simply don't get hung up on it. It's like asking if we're part of a multiverse? It's nice question for curiosity's sake but not terribly important to actually know the answer at this time.

The arrival of the Messiah is central to the Bible's overall theme. As God's appointed King, he is the only one who will bring peace to the earth. Our whole future depends on him.

I am completely confused by those who express beliefs (or lack of them) whilst professing a religion. How does that work ?

 

[2ndpillar]

It simply doesn't make a difference as terms often change over time, and even though "Jew" comes from the name "Judah", that term eventually began to be applied to all Jews as we know, even by Jesus' time. When "Jews" are being referred to in the "N.T.", who do you think they're referring to, especially since the tribes are not being referred to separately?

Dear metis,
The lost sheep of Israel were referred to by Yeshua. And these were with reference to the "My inheritance, Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations" (Joel 3:2) Judah and Jerusalem (Joel 3:1), were referred to separately from the "scattered" tribes of Israel.

 

[metis]

When one claims to be of a particular religious persuasion, it always amazes me that the "scripture" associated with that belief system can be accepted or rejected, based on personal opinion, yet one still claims adherence to that religion...? If you reject the basis for it, how is it still yours?

Judaism operates, and has probably always operated, on a different plane than where you're coming from. We have no creed, and freedom of thought and belief is encouraged, not discouraged. According to the Talmud, each Jew should add one innovative commentary on some element of scripture during his/her lifetime.

"Scripture" is the "holy writings" on which a faith is normally based....if you reject some or all of it, then how is it "holy"? How can a Jew reject the word of God and remain Jewish? That to me, is tantamount to rejecting God himself.

Who said I reject them? I read them, I contemplate them, and then I use what seems to be helpful. However, probably unlike you, I do this with all that I read, including scriptures from other religions.

God's intentions are clearly stated in Genesis. This book sets the groundwork for all the rest. Its theme is carried through to Revelation....it is one story.

Actually it is not one story but myriads of them, and the themes often vary as well as does some of the does and don't. It's hardly a monolithic document, and treating it like it is is to put blinders on.

How does someone with an attitude like this turn up at a synagogue, or any other place of worship? Who are you pleasing by going there? Do others share your doubts?
I don't understand. Why do you bother? God might exist or he might not? Maybe there are other gods? Really?...

I am completely confused by those who express beliefs (or lack of them) whilst professing a religion. How does that work ?

One can pray and/or meditate anywhere, but the number one purpose for going to synagogue is to learn, according to our tradition. Yes, other things are important as well, and I certainly don't have one single problem with going to services.

"Doubts" are natural and normal, and if anyone says they have no doubts in this arena, then I have to probably believe their belief is simply blind and shallow. As the old adage goes, "If two people completely agree, then only one of them is actually doing the thinking".

The arrival of the Messiah is central to the Bible's overall theme. As God's appointed King, he is the only one who will bring peace to the earth. Our whole future depends on him.

Actually the issue of the Messiah is quite minor in both Judaism and the Tanakh. What's far more important according to the Tanakh, is the Abrahamic Covenant and the Mosaiic Law.

References to the Messiah tend to be somewhat vague at times, plus it does not appear that Jesus was the Messiah as the messianic predictions were not fulfilled. However, I really don't get much into that.

Finally, I have to go for a short time, and I'll await your response, but then I'd like to compare our approaches in general, which I haven't gotten into as of yet. I didn't comment on some of your other paragraphs as all they were was sermonizing, which I've had plenty of over my 69 years of life. To save you time, I am very familiar with Christianity, including the JW approach as two of my neighbors were/are JW's. One of the families left the faith, and the other lives across the street from us, and I've known them for over 40 years. .

Take care.

 

[metis]

Dear metis,
The lost sheep of Israel were referred to by Yeshua. And these were with reference to the "My inheritance, Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations" (Joel 3:2) Judah and Jerusalem (Joel 3:1), were referred to separately from the "scattered" tribes of Israel.

And this does not refute what I wrote.

BTW, "lost sheep", when put into the scriptural context, does not refer to the lost tribes but instead to those whom Jesus believed were not following God's commands.