Gaudiya Vaishnavism queries and discussion thread.

[निताइ dasa]

weakest argument like ever. Second, Bhaktivinoda Thakur also hunted for Chaitanya Upanishad as per this link and this link:
http://www.krishna.com/sri-chaitanya-Vedas
https://back2krishna.wordpress.com/tag/chaitanya-upanishad/

It is laughable that why one ex muncipal officer has to be that much needy to invent some things other than milking money + politics, it is pretty much clear to me that this is complete fraud to fool people and such Avaidik acts trying to bypass vedam and the veda vani acharyas like Shankara, Ramanuja and madhva (who only ordained that only 14 upanishads needs to be taken as authentic from their commentaries) would result in rouravAdi narakas......

all these now kept me thinking that whether a character called 'nitai' existed in first place or its a fabrication to account for this new faith to milk money and who knows what just like shirdi sai baba gang. A lot depends on who we worship, worshipping a fake thing will give you fake things only ofcourse after death of body. One just need to look closer at things to know the facts about them, you just have to look hard is all.

Sri Krushna would tear down these fakes when the time comes just like he tore the mouth of bakasura which represents hamsa doing fake meditation!

I am not going to stoop to your level of blind evidence-less slandering. I have made our position clear. Both the links support Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Also are you rejecting the letters written by the acharayas of the Madhav Sampradaya testifying to the authenticity of our line? Never have anyone in our Sampradaya milked anyone for money, ever. Where we take donations we do so to spread the message of BG and Bhagavatam to where it is needed. Our shastras clearly say that one cannot put a price on Hari Katha as it is priceless, and those who do fall into hell. You talk about facts, yet you have to present even 1 fact. Please put a reign on your pride prabhu, it is not befitting a Vaishnav. I'm sure you know the story of Romaharshana Suta, who though speaking the puranas, did not offer respect to Bhagavan Balaram (because he thought that scriptures were above Vaishnavs), and thus was killed for his offense.

 

[kalyan]

I am not going to stoop to your level of blind evidence-less slandering. I have made our position clear. Both the links support Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Also are you rejecting the letters written by the acharayas of the Madhav Sampradaya testifying to the authenticity of our line? Never have anyone in our Sampradaya milked anyone for money, ever. Our shastras clearly say that one cannot put a price on Hari Katha as it is priceless, and those who do fall into hell. You talk about facts, yet you have to present even 1 fact. Please put a reign on your pride prabhu, it is not befitting a Vaishnav.

There is no our shastras and my shastras, when you say shastram it directly refers to vedam just like when you say collector it refers to IAS officer or so, all others needs to be qualified like bill collector or ticket collector. Vedam is only one and those who go beyond vedam like introducing false upanishads like chaitanya upanishad or allopanishad or christopanishad(these exist) are to be taken with a pinch of salt and downright rejected and that is what I have done......There is no need to support those who further or author this propaganda instead they need to be stoned to falsely program the people's mind. You have been deeply programmed.

Anyway it is pointless, there are no authentic commentaries on the vedantic sutras by gaudiyas and I cannot argue in that direction either to understand their understanding on tattvik related queries...These commentaries on vedantic sutras expose as what they are worth but chaitanya himself as you claim only authored one work which only says to do hari nama sankeertana which we already know, he has no other works! How do we know his position and his worth when we dont know his postion on a single vedantic sutra.

I could ask you what is the understanding of gaudiyas on vakyas like aham brahmasmi, ayam atma brahma, tat tvam asi, are there any meaning given by gaudiya sampradaya, if so we could argue and see what your reading into in those topics............

 

[निताइ dasa]

There is no our shastras and my shastras, when you say shastram it directly refers to vedam just like when you say collector it refers to IAS officer or so, all others needs to be qualified like bill collector or ticket collector. Vedam is only one and those who go beyond vedam like introducing false upanishads like chaitanya upanishad or allopanishad or christopanishad(these exist) are to be taken with a pinch of salt and downright rejected and that is what I have done......There is no need to support those who further or author this propaganda instead they need to be stoned to falsely program the people's mind. You have been deeply programmed.

No prabhu I disagree. The Vedas are eternal and perfect and to understand them one needs the mercy of a Sadhu. What is authentic and non-authentic is revealed by the Acharayas when they write their commentaries on the Vedanta. Just as you call the Bhasyas of Srila Madhavacharya and Ramanuja (and the scriptures set forth in them) as authorized, similiarily we accept the commentaries of our Goswamis to be authoratative. The main difference is you do not have faith in our acharayas and therefore you see it like this, nothing else. One must always concider the authority who is giving the knowledge, as that is true Sabda.

Anyway it is pointless, there are no authentic commentaries on the vedantic sutras by gaudiyas and I cannot argue in that direction either to understand their understanding on tattvik related queries.

See this is what I mean. Someone has fed you misinformation and because of this you have made a premature judgement on our sampradaya. Our sampradaya has an authentic commentary of the Vedanta Sutra, called the Govinda Bhasya by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana. Furthermore, it is the Gaudiya position that a Vedanta Sutra commentary is not needed because Bhagavatam itself is the natural commentary. This is from the words of the Garuda Purana itself which says that Bhagavatam is " artho yam brahma sutranam" or the Bhagavatam is the natural commentary on Vedanta Sutra (Brahma Sutra). This verse cited can also be found in Bhagavata Tatparya Nirnaya 1.1.1 cited by Madhavacharya himself (which you must accept). That is why Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu did not tell the Goswamis to write any commentaries as Bhagavatam was enough. It was only when other Sampradayas started to doubt our authenticity that Govinda Bhasya was written. Everything Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu taught was expanded by His disciples in their respective texts, and therefore must be accepted as one with His teachings. In order to defend its authenticity again and again acharayas like Vishanatha Cakravarti Thakura and Jiva Goswami have written their commentaries on the Upanisads and Bhagavad Gita. This being done despite the fact that we Gaudiyas reject the Prasthana Trayi concept of Sankara because it cannot be found anywhere in Vedas. Do not link us with the clearly fraudous sects prabhu when our purva acharayas have made every effort to write commentaries and support our position according to the Vedas.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I will try to summarize .. to prevent people from questioning and being objective. Good luck.

Kudos, Shiva. Beautifully written to dispell ignorance. How can one doubt what these great personages say? The ninth avatara of Lord Vishnu, Lord Buddha, said this in Kalama Sutta:

"Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing (anussava),
or upon tradition (paramparā),
or upon rumor (itikirā),
or upon what is in a scripture (piṭaka-sampadāna),
or upon surmise (takka-hetu),
or upon an axiom (naya-hetu),
or upon specious reasoning (ākāra-parivitakka),
or upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over (diṭṭhi-nijjhān-akkh-antiyā),
or upon another's seeming ability (bhabba-rūpatāya),
or upon the consideration, The monk is our teacher (samaṇo no garū)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalama_Sutta#Discerning_Religious_Teachings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

 

[kalyan]

No prabhu I disagree. The Vedas are eternal and perfect and to understand them one needs the mercy of a Sadhu. What is authentic and non-authentic is revealed by the Acharayas when they write their commentaries on the Vedanta. Just as you call the Bhasyas of Srila Madhavacharya and Ramanuja (and the scriptures set forth in them) as authorized, similiarily we accept the commentaries of our Goswamis to be authoratative. The main difference is you do not have faith in our acharayas and therefore you see it like this, nothing else. One must always concider the authority who is giving the knowledge, as that is true Sabda.



See this is what I mean. Someone has fed you misinformation and because of this you have made a premature judgement on our sampradaya. Our sampradaya has an authentic commentary of the Vedanta Sutra, called the Govinda Bhasya by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana. Furthermore, it is the Gaudiya position that a Vedanta Sutra commentary is not needed because Bhagavatam itself is the natural commentary. This is from the words of the Garuda Purana itself which says that Bhagavatam is " artho yam brahma sutranam" or the Bhagavatam is the natural commentary on Vedanta Sutra (Brahma Sutra). This verse cited can also be found in Bhagavata Tatparya Nirnaya 1.1.1 cited by Madhavacharya himself (which you must accept). That is why Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu did not tell the Goswamis to write any commentaries as Bhagavatam was enough. It was only when other Sampradayas started to doubt our authenticity that Govinda Bhasya was written. Everything Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu taught was expanded by His disciples in their respective texts, and therefore must be accepted as one with His teachings. In order to defend its authenticity again and again acharayas like Vishanatha Cakravarti Thakura and Jiva Goswami have written their commentaries on the Upanisads and Bhagavad Gita. This being done despite the fact that we Gaudiyas reject the Prasthana Trayi concept of Sankara because it cannot be found anywhere in Vedas. Do not link us with the clearly fraudous sects prabhu when our purva acharayas have made every effort to write commentaries and support our position according to the Vedas.

so what is not there that gaudiya has newly shown us ? absolutely nothing,
there is no need of a new faith to make us trust in bhagawatham. There are no works on not even a single vedantic sutra by gaudiya, so what does it have other than just repeating the 'do hari nAma sankeertana' which we already know ?

Not that I am trying to convert or anything but I think you should do sharanagati to rAmanuja or any vedantic acharya instead of everyone who started bogus claims and use your logic as why there was this recent phenomenon of chaitanya after the iskcon is in full effect. Ratikala said prabhupada spread the bhakti in the west, not required at all, no faith is better than wrong faith. Krushna and rAdha is fine but when you start claiming some persons to be gods out of thin air that should be rejected. See what has happened due to 3 marathis establishing shirdi trust, now we see a money milking factory and people worshipping a dead body which was placed in Sri Krushna temple.Ofcourse I could not speak against this openly in public or in shirdi temple for the thoughtless followers may be beat the hell out of me but I could always put the truth out online. Any vedantin would reject upanishads such as chaitanya upanishad, are you inferring that chaitanya upanishad is legitimate by any chance ?

The vedas are very clear on what vaikuntam is and what brahma loka and what kailasam is, so I am going to the topic where it all started, the shiva glorification by chaitanya and the topics such as sadashiva which is not mentioned in vedam but only shaiva siddhantas. So this makes chaitanya a avaidika talking about stuff which is not present in vedam.

Vedam is the supreme authority and no one has authored it, vedas are sounds that are heard by the rishis in their deep meditation state and hence they are shabda pramAna. If one goes against vedam, it only gives the punishment, our bharatiya sampradaya is such that, you need not believe in a paramaatma but if you believe in vedam, he/she is called an Astika....

 

[निताइ dasa]

are you inferring that chaitanya upanishad is legitimate by any chance ?

Yes to us. Look I understand why you are so passionate for this, because now-days there are so many false avatars springing up. But please trust me when I tell you that the realizations of our Acharayas have some substances in them. I have surrendered to the vani of my Gurudeva and to the Lotus Feet of Nityananda Prabhu because my experiences show that they are authentic. After reading the commentaries various acharayas, it is only the message of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu that has touched my heart. It is only due to them that I have any devotion to Lord Hari.

 

[kalyan]

Yes to us.

Then you are not a vedantin and should in future should not refer Bhagawad Gita or the bHagawatham which are words of Maha VishNu and Sri Krushna clearly said Sruthihi smrithihi mamaieva Agna, the vedam is the order of Maha Vishnu and if any worthless fool propagates something to tamper vedam be it chaitanya prabhu or bhaktivinode thakur by introducing false things such as chaitanya upanishad, it will be strongly condemned by the vedantins, and they must be in the narakas themselves out of sins committed against vedam

 

[kalyan]

After reading the commentaries various acharayas, it is only the message of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu

you say after reading various commentaries and at the same time say, gaudiyas don't need commentaries...and what is the message actually ? to do harinama sankeertana like we don't know this already ? care to explain what is the essence of this message?

adiyen Ramanuja daasa

 

[निताइ dasa]

Then you are not a vedantin and should in future should not refer Bhagawad Gita or the bHagawatham which are words of Maha VishNu and Sri Krushna clearly said Sruthihi smrithihi mamaieva Agna, the vedam is the order of Maha Vishnu and if any worthless fool propagates something to tamper vedam be it chaitanya prabhu or bhaktivinode thakur by introducing false things such as chaitanya upanishad, it will be strongly condemned by the vedantins, and they must be in the narakas themselves out of sins committed against vedam

Then I bow to your pride which puts the Ahankara of Raavan to shame! May Lord Krshna dance on it, just like He danced on the head of Kaliya. Let others call us mad or avaidhika, that does not matter, we are happy to discuss Hari Katha from the mouth of Sadhus. If you do not like it, you are free to leave this thread, I will not however stop Hari Katha which is "tapta jivana". You are right I am not a Vedantin, I am only the servant of the servant of the Vaishnavs. Nitaai! If you have not understood our message from the previous postings, then I am afraid you did not listen.

"naham vipro na ca nara-patir na_pi vaisyo na sudro
naham varni na ca griha-patir no vanastho yatir va
kintu prodyan-nikhila-parama_nanda-purnamritabdher
gopi-bhartuh pada-kamalayor dasa-dasanudasah"

"I am not a brahmana, I am not a kshatriya, I am not a vaisya or a sudra. Nor am I a brahmacari, a householder, a vanapratha or a sannyasi. I identify Myself only as the servant of the servant of the servant of the lotus feet of Lord Sri Krishna, the maintainer of the gopis. He is like an ocean of nectar, and He is the cause of universal transcendental bliss. He is always existing with brilliance" -Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu

 

[kalyan]

Then I bow to your pride which puts the Ahankara of Raavan to shame! May Lord Krshna dance on it, just like He danced on the head of Kaliya. Let others call us mad or avaidhika, that does not matter, we are happy to discuss Hari Katha from the mouth of Sadhus. If you do not like it, you are free to leave this thread, I will not however stop Hari Katha which is "tapta jivana". Nitaai!

why should I leave this thread when falsities are propagated in the name of vedam not to mention just because you open a thread does not mean, you own the space! arrogance much and how immature.....anyway you do whatever you do but when you associate these avaidik acts into vedam, I would strongly condemn it being slave and servant of Sri Maha Vishnu....I would not object to Shirdi sai baba worship but if they say we would worship sai baba with veda mantras, then I will strongly object against it, till then I don't care at all!

Adiyen Chinna Jeeyar Swamy daasa
adiyen Ramanuja daasa
Jai Srimannarayana----

 

[निताइ dasa]

why should I leave this thread when falsities are propagated in the name of vedam not to mention just because you open a thread does not mean, you own the space! arrogance much and how immature.....anyway you do whatever you do but when you associate these avaidik acts into vedam, I would strongly condemn it being slave and servant of Sri Maha Vishnu....I would not object to Shirdi sai baba worship but if they say we would worship sai baba with veda mantras, then I will strongly object against it, till then I don't care at all!

Adiyen Chinna Jeeyar Swamy daasa
adiyen Ramanuja daasa
Jai Srimannarayana----

I am not against the Vedas. If you provide some scriptural injuctions I would be happy to discuss them. Unfortunately throughout our debate you have not provided even ONE scriptural proof or piece of reasonable evidence to support your claim. Yes I have opened the thread, but since this is a Gaudiya thread you should try and humbly inquire about these things from our POV and if you are not happy, then say "okay I get that is your opinion, I disagree, but I respect your opinion". One must not jump in and start attacking us. Like I have said always, these claims are our opinion of the Vedas, as per the shastric evidence given by our Goswamis. Just like I don't go onto an Shaiva thread and start yelling that "Visnu is supreme, you are all wrong" similarly what you are doing is completely against etiquette.

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram @Aupmanyav ji , @kalyan ji , @निताइ dasa ji @Chakra ji @shivsomashekhar Ji @StarryNightshade @Terese ji @LuisDantas Ji and all prabhus participating in this thread and any similar , ....

Happy new year to all prabhu ji's
, .....and in the words on John Lennon , .....(who ever thought they would catch me Quoting John Lenon ???)

​

So this is Xmas
And what have you done
Another year over
And a new one just begun
And so this is Xmas
I hope you have fun
The near and the dear one
The old and the young

A very Merry Xmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear

And so this is Xmas (war is over)
For weak and for strong (if you want it)
For rich and the poor ones (war is over)
The world is so wrong (if you want it)
And so happy Xmas (war is over)
For black and for white (if you want it)
For yellow and red ones (war is over)
Let's stop all the fight (now)

A very Merry Xmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear

And so this is Xmas (war is over)
And what have we done (if you want it)
Another year over (war is over)
A new one just begun (if you want it)
And so happy Xmas (war is over)
We hope you have fun (if you want it)
The near and the dear one (war is over)
The old and the young (now)

A very Merry Xmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear

War is over, if you want it
War is over now

Happy Xmas​

well in this case Happy new year , ......''lets hope its a good one with out any fear '' ....
why without any fear ??? ......because I realy enjoy Religious Forum , ...Most of the time , ....but sometimes it makes me so sad ......

Also I notice, Nitai, you have not participated in any other thread except singing praises of Sri Nityananda. Is this not proselytization which I do not think is accepted in Religious Forum. On internet it is very difficult to know who is who. Are you from the staff or the 'Tridandi' swami himself? With all the Asarams, Nithiyanandas, Ramlals, proliferating in India, we tend to be careful.

Aupmanyav ji , ....this makes me sad , ....I asked Nitai Dasa ji to start this thread !!!!so we could Discuss Gaudiya Vaisnavism in peace without offending others as the thread on Nityananda Prabhu had become ruined by arguing and Disagreement , ...ti mad me sad that Nityanandas thread became defaced by argument , now this thread is being defaced in the same way , .....

Aupmanyav ji , ....may I take this oppertunity to say this is not ''Proselytisation'' it is simply showing love for ones tradition and for ones Guru , surely love for ones tradition must be alowed upon a religious Forum it would only be natural , ...

also if it is difficult to know who Nitai das is , then it is Difficult to know who I am and for that matter who any of us are ?

Are you from the staff or the 'Tridandi' swami himself?

What could possibly be ''the staff'' of the Sanyasi , ..all devotees are his servants , the Sanyasi himself is also the servant , ...and if he is the ''Tridandi'' , ...then all glories to him for giving up his life in the service of others , ....

With all the Asarams, Nithiyanandas, Ramlals, proliferating in India, we tend to be careful.

Iskcon to is proliforating Ashrams is this why Iskcon also get so viciously attacked , because they too devote their lives to the proliferation of Krsna Consciousness ?
yes true there is fault that can be found , there will be fault in all human organisations , as sadly there is fault in all human nature , ...unfortunatly we are not Lord Rama , ....we only follow to the best of our ability , ....


Now please remember this thread started politely and respectfuly , ....and humbly , ..this is the nature of Gaudiyas , ....so let us not abuse that nature , ...

Nitai! My humble dandavat pranam to the users of this forum. On the request of Ratikala ji, I have started this thread so that we can discuss the theology of Lord Gaur Nitai and the acharyas of Gaudiya Vaishanvism; and its siddhanta of Achintya Bhedabheda. I shall try and post content in a regular manner from the works of our previous Acharayas. If you also have any questions or doubts about our Philosophy, please feel free to ask, and I shall try (with my miniscule knowledge) answer it. There has been alot of ignorance regarding our Sampradaya sadly, and it is my hope that through this thread we can resolve some of the objections put forth. Nitai Gaur Premanande, Hari Hari Bol!

it is true I asked Nitai ji to start this thread , so please may I also ask all prabhu ji's to behave respectfully , ...I also agree totaly that there is a lot of ignorance and missinformation about Gaudiya Vaisnavism and yes it is sad , ..it makes me very very sad , ....so yes , let us use this oppertunity to resolve some of these issueas rather than creating more .....

Jai Jai , .....Nitai Gaur Premanande , Hari Hari Bol , ....

and let ne add one last thing , ......Jai Nitai Bol , Hari Bol , Hari Bol , .....this is not proselyatisation , ...this is simply our way of sharing Joy , .....

please let us start this year with the pating of respects as starry ji said earlier we are Vaisnava, ...

Even with all of these differences, we are still Vaishnavas and Hindus all the same. We are still a part of a very large Dharmic family tree, even if we (like a real family) don't always agree or get along.

So please, have friendly discussion on the differences and similarities between these samparadayas, but please let's keep it civil.

Adiyen and Hare Krishna.

Jai Jai , ....Love and blessings to all Wishing everyone a happy and peacfull new year , ....

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ratiben, but we should go slow in making everybody an avatara, otherwise people will end up like me being advaitists when everybody is an avatara. Is that OK with people?

 

[निताइ dasa]

Namaskaram @Aupmanyav ji , @kalyan ji , @निताइ dasa ji @Chakra ji @shivsomashekhar Ji @StarryNightshade @Terese ji @LuisDantas Ji and all prabhus participating in this thread and any similar , ....

Happy new year to all prabhu ji's
, .....and in the words on John Lennon , .....(who ever thought they would catch me Quoting John Lenon ???)

​

So this is Xmas
And what have you done
Another year over
And a new one just begun
And so this is Xmas
I hope you have fun
The near and the dear one
The old and the young

A very Merry Xmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear

And so this is Xmas (war is over)
For weak and for strong (if you want it)
For rich and the poor ones (war is over)
The world is so wrong (if you want it)
And so happy Xmas (war is over)
For black and for white (if you want it)
For yellow and red ones (war is over)
Let's stop all the fight (now)

A very Merry Xmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear

And so this is Xmas (war is over)
And what have we done (if you want it)
Another year over (war is over)
A new one just begun (if you want it)
And so happy Xmas (war is over)
We hope you have fun (if you want it)
The near and the dear one (war is over)
The old and the young (now)

A very Merry Xmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear

War is over, if you want it
War is over now

Happy Xmas​

well in this case Happy new year , ......''lets hope its a good one with out any fear '' ....
why without any fear ??? ......because I realy enjoy Religious Forum , ...Most of the time , ....but sometimes it makes me so sad ......




Aupmanyav ji , ....this makes me sad , ....I asked Nitai Dasa ji to start this thread !!!!so we could Discuss Gaudiya Vaisnavism in peace without offending others as the thread on Nityananda Prabhu had become ruined by arguing and Disagreement , ...ti mad me sad that Nityanandas thread became defaced by argument , now this thread is being defaced in the same way , .....

Aupmanyav ji , ....may I take this oppertunity to say this is not ''Proselytisation'' it is simply showing love for ones tradition and for ones Guru , surely love for ones tradition must be alowed upon a religious Forum it would only be natural , ...

also if it is difficult to know who Nitai das is , then it is Difficult to know who I am and for that matter who any of us are ?


What could possibly be ''the staff'' of the Sanyasi , ..all devotees are his servants , the Sanyasi himself is also the servant , ...and if he is the ''Tridandi'' , ...then all glories to him for giving up his life in the service of others , ....



Iskcon to is proliforating Ashrams is this why Iskcon also get so viciously attacked , because they too devote their lives to the proliferation of Krsna Consciousness ?
yes true there is fault that can be found , there will be fault in all human organisations , as sadly there is fault in all human nature , ...unfortunatly we are not Lord Rama , ....we only follow to the best of our ability , ....


Now please remember this thread started politely and respectfuly , ....and humbly , ..this is the nature of Gaudiyas , ....so let us not abuse that nature , ...





it is true I asked Nitai ji to start this thread , so please may I also ask all prabhu ji's to behave respectfully , ...I also agree totaly that there is a lot of ignorance and missinformation about Gaudiya Vaisnavism and yes it is sad , ..it makes me very very sad , ....so yes , let us use this oppertunity to resolve some of these issueas rather than creating more .....

Jai Jai , .....Nitai Gaur Premanande , Hari Hari Bol , ....

and let ne add one last thing , ......Jai Nitai Bol , Hari Bol , Hari Bol , .....this is not proselyatisation , ...this is simply our way of sharing Joy , .....

please let us start this year with the pating of respects as starry ji said earlier we are Vaisnava, ...



Jai Jai , ....Love and blessings to all Wishing everyone a happy and peacfull new year , ....

You are always so calm and peaceful Mataji, and are able to please everyone with your wonderful words. It is very nice to have your association. I bow to you. Nitaai!

"tulayāma lavenāpi na svargaṁ nāpunar-bhavam
bhagavat-saṅgi-saṅgasya martyānāṁ kim utāśiṣaḥ"
Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (1.18.13)

"The value of a moment’s association with the devotee of the Lord cannot even be compared to the attainment of heavenly planets or liberation from matter, and what to speak of worldly benedictions in the form of material prosperity, which are for those who are meant for death."

 

[Terese]

She really is

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Kalyan ji, ...

may I please ask for a reply to post 208 , ....I mistakenly incorectly typed quotation brackets so prehaps you overlooked it , ..........however I have corrected the brackets and all is now visable , ...

would you please like to address the points raised in answer to your claim , .....

The philosophy of Vaishnavism is diametrically opposed to the twisted
impostions of Gaudiya Math's self-made "god men".
Gaudiya Math/Iskcon simply does not have any Pratishtha, nor authentic devotional service parampara.

(please note my words and questions in black , ...)

again I am merly quoting an old and settled argument , .....


''In a recent meeting, the senior-most leader of the Madhva sampradaya, H.H. Visvesa Tirtha Swami of Pejavara Matha, glorified Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, "just as Bhagiratha brought the Ganga to India, Swami Prabhupada brought the Bhakti-Ganga to the whole world."

We are rather perturbed to come across an article said to contain a statemant issued by Poornaprajna Vidyapeetha about Madhwa and Gaudiya Sampradayas.


We have been emphasizing time and again that even though there are certain difference in a few aspects of the two Sampradayas, there are many more common grounds and Gaudiya Sampradaya is a part of Madhwa Sampradaya. We have great regard for Prabhupada who has spread Vaisnava Bhakti Siddhanta throughout the world.


We have been admiring him on various occasions also. We are pained to find that the article denigrates Prabhupada and is against our opinion and philosophy.


The whole issue will be reviewed and in our capacity as the chancellor of Poornaprajna Vidyapeeta, a message will be shortly published to strengthen the mutual harmonious relationship between the Sampradayas.


Sri Sri Vishwesa Tirtha Swamiiji
​

not acording to the above letter ? .........'' Gaudiya Sampradaya is a part of Madhwa Sampradaya. We have great regard for Prabhupada who has spread Vaisnava Bhakti Siddhanta throughout the world. ''



this is one letter prabhu ji , ....one letter ! , there are many more do you want me to post more or will you stop this distructive and ofenceve behavior now ?

Sri H. H. Sri Vidyadisa Tirtha Swamiji
Car Street, Udupi

Sri Prabhupada has accepted Sri Madhwacharya as his "Acarya."

He has put manure and water to the seed sowed by Sri Madhwacharya. Sri Prabhupada is responsible for the spread of the branches of the tree of "Bhakti cult" all over India. It is the duty of all Madhwas to recognize the sadhana of Vaishnavite Sri Prabhupada.

It is true that there is a difference between "Chaitanya school" and "Madhwa school." In spite of the difference between the two schools of thought, one has to look into the similar thoughts that exist between the two. Therefore, the followers of these two cults should never blame each other nor envy each other.

One should not use bad words on the other. One should respect the other and vice-versa. All Madhwas should unite themselves.

Sri H. H. Sri Vidyadisa Tirtha Swamiji

​

if Madhava Swamis can say this with such grace prehaps Kalyan ji can also become gracefull and acept as so sweetly put in the above letter that , .....''Sri Prabhupada is responsible for the spread of the branches of the tree of "Bhakti cult" all over India. It is the duty of all Madhwas to recognize the sadhana of Vaishnavite Sri Prabhupada. ''


and is is again so sweetly said , .......''One should not use bad words on the other. One should respect the other and vice-versa. All Madhwas should unite themselves. ''

so if Madhavas should unite , and show respect to oneanother , then equaly all Vaisnava should live with respect for eachothers sampradayas , ....there are many of these letters and each as sweet , ....let us also become sweet and glorify the acheivments of the previous Acharyas , .....

I await your reply before I take you up on any furter issues , ....

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Aupmanyav ji

Ratiben, but we should go slow in making everybody an avatara, otherwise people will end up like me being advaitists when everybody is an avatara. Is that OK with people?

cretainly , ....as one who happily accepts the principle of 'Achintya Bheda Abheda', ..l wholeheartedly support the position of lnconceivable oneness and difference , ...therefore the ldea of ''making everyone an avatara''would be an out and out impossibility , ......l do not think l would make a very good advaitist , .....

 

[Aupmanyav]

I like that, rather than having this person or that person as an avatara.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Aupmanyav ji , ...

Kudos, Shiva. Beautifully written to dispell ignorance. How can one doubt what these great personages say? The ninth avatara of Lord Vishnu, Lord Buddha, said this in Kalama Sutta:

whilst I canot join you in offering ''Kudos'' to @shivsomashekhar for what sadly I conscider to be a divisive post ,

sismilarly , .....I canot agree with your suggestion below , ....

Probably the topic is ready for 'Same faith debate' forum.

whilst I realy enjoy yours and some others participation in Vaisnava posts (whilst they remain polite and construstive) , why must all threads end up in debate , especialy when the debates are so here are so adharmic in nature and usualy end up in one camp heaping insults on the acharyas of another sect , .....I might like to point out that I do not continualy enter into Advaitin discussions or spend my life debating the same issue or pushing the same dissagreement over and over again , no , it is simply not polite behavior , ...so why ? .....why should we wast our lives in such offensive disputes , ....

however , ....here you bring up a very valid point , ...

however it is prehaps the most missquoted and missused teaching of the Buddha , ..

here you use it to support Shivsomashekhar 's argument , ...However it can equaly be used to support the Gaudiya Stand point , ....

let us please examine what Buddha is saying , ..and look at it in the context of this argument , ....(Small note This is not a good translation but I will use it all the same )

"Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing (anussava),

this should better be taken to mean ..Do not accept on the strenght of hearing alone , ...it dosent mean discount something , it simply means examine it , and to do this we must remain open minded , ...

or upon tradition (paramparā),

Simmilarly we should not accept on strength of Parampara alone , ...again we should examine and test out all teachings and traditions before blindly following , ...

or upon rumor (itikirā),
or upon what is in a scripture (piṭaka-sampadāna),

Equaly this is exelent advice ''Rumor ''should be taken very lightly , ...but if we are to use the idea of dismisssing some scripture then we must dismiss all scripture , ...we must not rely , ..and here 'rely upon' being the operative word , ...any scripture alone , ..the imperitive message here is that one must examine , one must meditiate upon all , or any scripture and accept its validity on a personal level only after thoroughly examining it and realising it to be true , ...

or upon surmise (takka-hetu),
or upon an axiom (naya-hetu),
or upon specious reasoning (ākāra-parivitakka),

in this instance if we are to reject Gaudiya reasoning , we must also reject the reasoning of Advaita , ....

or upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over (diṭṭhi-nijjhān-akkh-antiyā),
or upon another's seeming ability (bhabba-rūpatāya),
or upon the consideration, The monk is our teacher (samaṇo no garū)."

equaly yes we must reject all things on the sole basis of their being someone elses realisation , ...what we must do is to make the Realisation ones own , ....but where the real problem in understanding this teaching comes is that what we are being advised to reject is acceptance on the 'sole basis' of any one of these things , in other words we must not 'rely opon' any thing , any person or any doctrine without having fully examined what that person or Doctrine perports to say , ..

This is what we fail to do , ..instead we hit eachother continualy with our own unexamined doctrine , ...when we have debates here this is all we do , ...we hit eachother with texts that we barely have taken the time to understand our selves we simply use them to support our own ignorant standpoint , ...thus Buddha rejected the Vedas because they were being missused , ...what he said was that we should seek our own liberation , ...

this is what Gaudiyas have done and they have found that liberation through the Chanting of the Holy Name , ...

So I would say the same to you as Lord Buddha said , ...dont accept it on say so alone , dont accept it only upon the basis of scripture or upon the example of any one Acharya , ..just simply put it into practice , ...try it out for your self , ...(please note this is not proelyatisation , it is simply my way of saying untill you have expreience of something do not knock it)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalama_Sutta#Discerning_Religious_Teachings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

also let us not accept soly on the 'authority' of Wickipidia , ...usefull as it may be it is full of inacuracys and heavily weighted opinion , ...

 

[kalyan]

namaskaram Aupmanyav ji , ...



whilst I canot join you in offering ''Kudos'' to @shivsomashekhar for what sadly I conscider to be a divisive post ,

sismilarly , .....I canot agree with your suggestion below , ....



whilst I realy enjoy yours and some others participation in Vaisnava posts (whilst they remain polite and construstive) , why must all threads end up in debate , especialy when the debates are so here are so adharmic in nature and usualy end up in one camp heaping insults on the acharyas of another sect , .....I might like to point out that I do not continualy enter into Advaitin discussions or spend my life debating the same issue or pushing the same dissagreement over and over again , no , it is simply not polite behavior , ...so why ? .....why should we wast our lives in such offensive disputes , ....

however , ....here you bring up a very valid point , ...

however it is prehaps the most missquoted and missused teaching of the Buddha , ..

here you use it to support Shivsomashekhar 's argument , ...However it can equaly be used to support the Gaudiya Stand point , ....

let us please examine what Buddha is saying , ..and look at it in the context of this argument , ....(Small note This is not a good translation but I will use it all the same )

"Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing (anussava),

this should better be taken to mean ..Do not accept on the strenght of hearing alone , ...it dosent mean discount something , it simply means examine it , and to do this we must remain open minded , ...

or upon tradition (paramparā),

Simmilarly we should not accept on strength of Parampara alone , ...again we should examine and test out all teachings and traditions before blindly following , ...

or upon rumor (itikirā),
or upon what is in a scripture (piṭaka-sampadāna),

Equaly this is exelent advice ''Rumor ''should be taken very lightly , ...but if we are to use the idea of dismisssing some scripture then we must dismiss all scripture , ...we must not rely , ..and here 'rely upon' being the operative word , ...any scripture alone , ..the imperitive message here is that one must examine , one must meditiate upon all , or any scripture and accept its validity on a personal level only after thoroughly examining it and realising it to be true , ...

or upon surmise (takka-hetu),
or upon an axiom (naya-hetu),
or upon specious reasoning (ākāra-parivitakka),

in this instance if we are to reject Gaudiya reasoning , we must also reject the reasoning of Advaita , ....

or upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over (diṭṭhi-nijjhān-akkh-antiyā),
or upon another's seeming ability (bhabba-rūpatāya),
or upon the consideration, The monk is our teacher (samaṇo no garū)."

equaly yes we must reject all things on the sole basis of their being someone elses realisation , ...what we must do is to make the Realisation ones own , ....but where the real problem in understanding this teaching comes is that what we are being advised to reject is acceptance on the 'sole basis' of any one of these things , in other words we must not 'rely opon' any thing , any person or any doctrine without having fully examined what that person or Doctrine perports to say , ..

This is what we fail to do , ..instead we hit eachother continualy with our own unexamined doctrine , ...when we have debates here this is all we do , ...we hit eachother with texts that we barely have taken the time to understand our selves we simply use them to support our own ignorant standpoint , ...thus Buddha rejected the Vedas because they were being missused , ...what he said was that we should seek our own liberation , ...

this is what Gaudiyas have done and they have found that liberation through the Chanting of the Holy Name , ...

So I would say the same to you as Lord Buddha said , ...dont accept it on say so alone , dont accept it only upon the basis of scripture or upon the example of any one Acharya , ..just simply put it into practice , ...try it out for your self , ...(please note this is not proelyatisation , it is simply my way of saying untill you have expreience of something do not knock it)



also let us not accept soly on the 'authority' of Wickipidia , ...usefull as it may be it is full of inacuracys and heavily weighted opinion , ...

As for your bhakti movement in the west, who cares really ? yesus or mahamad have more following in the west or like but they are only humans that have done many mistakes like us, there is no redemption for the people following them atleast in this birth because they are running after some cult which was established on many unreal grounds.

I can only say one thing, shankara, bhaskara , prabhakara, ramanuja ,madhva these are all established acharyas, there is no mention of a character called 'chaitanya' anywhere up until recent 18th century or so and the injections like chaitanya upanishad, promoting avaidik acts only makes me think, that there could not be any character called chaitanya in the first place and the so called gaudiya faith did not establish something new and so established chaitanya has no works to his name except a weak work in which he says already we know, there is NOT even a single vedantic sutra commentary, laughably they tried to vandalize the great scriptures like bhAgawatham, thank god you did not try to prove chaitanya in Bhagawadgita. This vandalism of vedic texts, avaidik acts promoting fake upanishads should have to be to promote a fake character that did not exist in the first place, using a little logic it should be clear by now,...A true vaishnavite or vaishnavism is about respecting the VEDAM and the acharyas who are the walking VEDAM, condemning the avaidik acts wherever necessary, the gaudiya is hiding behind the barb of vaishnavism and it is completely anti-vedic promoting false upanishads and this kind of false avaidik faith will only lead one to the paths of destruction.