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Gaudiya Vaishnavism queries and discussion thread.

Kirran

Premium Member
Thank you. Yes, I think the Babajis of Sri Radhakund and Vrindavan live that lifestyle. They beg for food (madhukari) everyday, and eat whatever is offered to them. However they always return to Radha Kund when the day is over.

The sannayasa rules of Bhakisiddhanta Saraswati itself are not as renounced as those of other Sampradayas, and therefore many of our Gaudiya Sannayasis live in the Gaudiya Maths established around India in the association of other Vaishnavs.

Interesting, thanks swamiji.

Different ways of being a sannyasin. I have a relationship with an ashram here in the UK where the sannyasins live together at the monastery, carrying out the work needed for its upkeep, doing pujas, looking after pilgrims :)
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
Namaskaram Nitai das ji

Thank you. Yes, I think the Babajis of Sri Radhakund and Vrindavan live that lifestyle. They beg for food (madhukari) everyday, and eat whatever is offered to them. However they always return to Radha Kund when the day is over.

The sannayasa rules of Bhakisiddhanta Saraswati itself are not as renounced as those of other Sampradayas, and therefore many of our Gaudiya Sannayasis live in the Gaudiya Maths established around India in the association of other Vaishnavs.

jai jai in some respects the true Gaudiya Sanyasi is fully renounced , he may appear to live in an ashram but he lives there only at the behest of his spirtual master , ..he has renounced all ownership and all posesions , ..he lives there to fullfill the seva given to him , ..as a Sanyasi he will simply follow the instructions of his own Gurudev , ...either this(he will stay in one place perfprming his seva) or he will travel around at the behest of his Spiritual master and at the behest of his own deciples if he has reached the stage of becoming an initiating Guru , ....

in many respects true renunciation comes from the heart , it is not going into the forest or beging for ones food that makes one a true Sanyasi this one can do for ones own benifit , but the true Sanyasi renounces even his personal interest in his own liberation , ...his life is totaly dedicated to the service of others , ....

jai jai Gurudev, ..
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
Interesting, thanks swamiji.

Different ways of being a sannyasin. I have a relationship with an ashram here in the UK where the sannyasins live together at the monastery, carrying out the work needed for its upkeep, doing pujas, looking after pilgrims :)

jai jai this is perfect Seva , .....
 

Kirran

Premium Member
Yes, I agree totally on true renunciation not being concerned with outward appearances of it. I was just asking about the tradition :)
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
Namaskaram Nitai das ji



jai jai in some respects the true Gaudiya Sanyasi is fully renounced , he may appear to live in an ashram but he lives there only at the behest of his spirtual master , ..he has renounced all ownership and all posesions , ..he lives there to fullfill the seva given to him , ..as a Sanyasi he will simply follow the instructions of his own Gurudev , ...either this(he will stay in one place perfprming his seva) or he will travel around at the behest of his Spiritual master and at the behest of his own deciples if he has reached the stage of becoming an initiating Guru , ....

in many respects true renunciation comes from the heart , it is not going into the forest or beging for ones food that makes one a true Sanyasi this one can do for ones own benifit , but the true Sanyasi renounces even his personal interest in his own liberation , ...his life is totaly dedicated to the service of others , ....

jai jai Gurudev, ..

Hari Hari. Yes I totally agree with you Mataji. I did not mean to say that they were not renounced, but rather they don't appear as renounced to outsiders... I ask forgiveness for any offense against them. You are right; true renunciation is not simply leaving the attachment of material objects, but also becoming attached to Lord Hari. An example we see is of Pundarika Vidyanidhi. When Lord Chaitanya first met him, he had disguised himself as a topmost material enjoyer, reclined on opulent bed, with silk sheets and and eating paan while servants fanned him with a peacock feather. Seeing this so called 'material disguise' Gadadhara Pandit began to doubht whether Sri Pundarika Vidyanidhi was actually so advanced after all. Sensing this, Mukunda (one of Lord Chaitanya's associates), read the following verse from the Bhagavatam:

"pūtanā loka-bāla-ghnī
rākṣasī rudhirāśanā
jighāṁsayāpi haraye
stanaṁ dattvāpa sad-gatim"

"Pūtanā was always hankering for the blood of human children, and with that desire she came to kill Kṛṣṇa; but because she offered her breast milk to the Lord, she attained the greatest achievement (a position in Goloka equal to that of a mother!)"

When Sri Pundarika Vidyanidhi heard this he immediately jumped out of bed, tears following like a ganga out of his eyes. Rolling on the ground, he wailed, "The Lord is infinitely merciful. Yet He deprives me of His mercy." His clothes, brass bed, fine bed-sheets and all his opulent trappings were ripped to shreds-smashed to bits. Ten men tried but couldn't restrain the force of Pundarika's ecstasy. The manifestations of Pundarika Vidyanidhi's pure love for Krishna competed with one another for some time. Finally, his spiritual emotions reached their peak and he lost external unconscious.

When Srila Gadadhara Pandit saw this He, realised His offence in judging Pundarika Vidyanidhi as a materialist, and bowed down to his feet, accepting Diksha from him. What this pastime shows is that though a vaishnav may appear to be performing the most materialistic action, they are still renounced because everything they are doing is for the pleasure of the Lord. Pundarika Vidyanidhi ki Jaya!
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Vaishnavas can marry by exchanging garlands (mala Badli) and live and man and wife, both dedicated to their 'Ishta' - Jogis and bauls were married though renounced. (Hope I am correct)
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
Namaskaram prabhu ji's


Hari Hari. Yes I totally agree with you Mataji. I did not mean to say that they were not renounced, but rather they don't appear as renounced to outsiders... I ask forgiveness for any offense against them.
I am sure no offences have been comitted , ...Do not worry I did not take it that way , ...my only reason to clarify these points is that from outside it might be easy for a new comer to mistake some honours paid to the Guru by his deciples as a fulfilling of his desires , ....he has no other desire than to depart knowledge and inspire love of God , ....sometimes I have heard people express concern that we appear to treat the Guru as God lavishing gifts and adulation upon him , ..on the other hand the humble Sanjasi can go allmost un seen , ....many a time one hears criticism of a math calling it a cult , ...they will mistakenly think that the Guru is attatched to position or to Money , ..in reality the Guru is nondifferent from the simple Sanjasin in that he has no desire to amass wealth , he has no need for it , he desires only the Lords Darshan .
but if you give him money he will use it in the lords service , ...there seems to be much suspicion sarounding wealth given to any one math or to any one temple , ...and suspicion of any math which grows quickly in popularity or who erects large and opulant temples , ....in the most these critcisms are totaly un warented , .....
Nor does the Sanyasi desire to establish a home , but should he desire to build an ashram it is for the sole intention of serving the lord and of benifiting others , ....and many times it is with the wish to fulfill his own guru ji's wishes , ....
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
Vaishnavas can marry by exchanging garlands (mala Badli) and live and man and wife, both dedicated to their 'Ishta' - Jogis and bauls were married though renounced. (Hope I am correct)

Nitai! You are right, Vaishnavs in the grihasta asrama can marry. We Gaudiyas (under Vinod-Saraswati) do not accept the Bauls however, as they descend from tantric buddhists and not the pure teachings of Lord Chaitanya. They equate Krsna Prema which is fully spiritual, to the mundane lust of the body. This is called rasa abhasa which we don't agree with. At least they chant the name of the Lord though.
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
Paresanubhuti (the Gaudiya Categorisation of knowledge)
by Sri Srimad Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Goswami

The knowledge that the jivas acquire at different levels of consciousness is not the same qualitatively nor is it the same quantitatively. Furthermore, knowledge gathered on one level will not necessarily help one's knowledge on the next level. In fact, from the perspective of the knowledge acquired on one level, knowledge acquired at the previous level may be extremely insignificant, inferior and even harmful in one's activities. However, there exists an ultimate level of knowledge, having acquired which there is no possibility of ever again becoming degraded. All types of learning gathered prior to this ultimate level are useless. The development of man's superlative inner qualities take place only by striving to attain this ultimate level of knowledge. Such knowledge alone is known as sambandha-jnana.
The jnana which Srila Rupa Gosvamipada is referring to in the phrase jnana-karmady-anavrtam when defining uttama bhakti, and the jnana that Srila Narottama Thakura has declared to be visera bhanda (pots of poison)* in his kirtanas are not this sambandha-jnana. That jnana which attempts to negate the knower (jnata), the knowable (jneya) and the knowledge (jnana) by annihilating them, in fact, only culminates in ajnana (ignorance). Only that jnana is rejected by them. Such jnana is not sambandha-jnana. It is simply the corrupt jnana which destroys sambandha.

The jnana which is acquired at different levels of consciousness is divided into five categories: (i) indriyartha jnana - knowledge for the purpose of sense gratification, (ii) naitika jnana - moral knowledge, (iii) isvara jnana - knowledge of the supreme controller, (iv) brahma jnana - impersonal knowledge, and (v) suddha jnana - pure knowledge.

(i) Indriyartha jnana - knowledge for the purpose of sense gratification.

The mundane senses gather a conception of the external world and transmit that conception to the mind via the nervous system. The first tendency of the internal sense (the mind) is to gather ideas of the external world. The mind's second tendency is to preserve these ideas in the memory. Then through its third tendency, the mind mixes and separates these ideas, and such functions as deliberation and imagination are produced. The mind's fourth tendency is to ascertain particular groups or classes of these ideas, and by classifying them will make the concepts more manageable. Through the mind's deliberation he will then either accept or reject those groups. Through the mind's fifth tendency, a logical meaning emanates from those properly arranged ideas, and this is called yukti, logic or reasoning. Only by the assistance of this yukti have all types of psychological and material science been produced. Since this yukti is simply a tendency of the mind, it cannot comprehend the tattva which is beyond the mind and mundane words. Paresanubhuti is beyond the approach of such indriyartha jnana.

(ii) Naitika jnana - moral knowledge

Thoughtful consideration of mundane auspiciousness and inauspiciousness, accomplished with the help of indriyartha jnana, gives rise to naitika jnana, moral knowledge. Attachment for matters that are pleasing to the mind and disgust for those which are displeasing are the focus of this jnana. Taking all these features of the mind into consideration, the niti-sastras, which are based on yukti, are a product of the imagination*. They contain instructions for cultivating sense enjoyment and for restraining hatred for anything which happens to be opposed to such sense enjoyment. Since human nature has a still higher tendency, naitika jnana alone cannot satisfy man. Naitika jnana, while focusing on subjects related to the development of the body, mind and society, presents ideas of what is righteousness, and what is sin and vice. However, naitika jnana remains completely silent regarding realization of the supreme absolute reality in the eternal blissful dhama.

(iii) Isvara jnana - knowledge of the Supreme Controller

The thoughtful class of humanity who have carefully deliberated upon the constitution of all entities on earth, considering their mutual relationship, the proper rules to be followed by householders and all other asramas, collective cooperation to remedy all needs, and discussion for progressive development, have concluded on the basis of reason that this world cannot have come into existence by itself. Rather, they have accepted that it has emanated from one prominent tattva, which is intrinsically characterized as jnana, or jnana-svarupa-tattva. That tattva, worshipable for the whole world, is omnipotent, and it is obligatory to worship that reality with heartfelt gratefulness. Then, being pleased with us, He will arrange all types of facility for our sense enjoyment. On the other hand, there are those who maintain a different understanding about the omnipotent purusa. They believe that due to His celebrated and magnanimous nature after having created us, He has made all types of arrangements for the enhancement of our pleasure. That supreme person does not expect anything in return from us, so there is no specific purpose for us to worship Him. Then there are others, such as the saisvaravadis (theists), who say that by performing one's prescribed duties, one achieves happiness, such as attaining Svarga, and by performing activities which are not prescribed, one attains hell. This type of isvara jnana can to some degree be accepted as jnana, but it is mainly mixed with karma. However, isvara jnana does not grant realization of one's nitya siddha svarupa (eternally perfect spiritual form). Thus, paresanubhuti is much higher than this level of jnana.

(iv) Brahma jnana - impersonal knowledge

Man, not being satisfied by the above isvara jnana, again is impelled to apply his reason (yukti) to further cultivate higher jnana. However, at this point, he reaches the final limit of his reasoning. His reasoning, having been repeatedly pushed and finding no other means, then gives rise to the concept of negation, and he proceeds to take support of the laksana vrtti (the unintended or secondary meaning of the statements of Vedanta). In reality, the supreme absolute entity possesses characteristics such as form, variety, qualities, and so on. However, on the basis of yukti that has been stimulated by repeated pushings (and pressure), the conception of a supreme entity that is formless, unvariegated, quality less and undifferentiated manifests. The notion of brahma jnana, in the form of undifferentiated tattva, originates from an anadhikara (ineligible) exercise of the imagination by his reason (yukti). There is no possibility of attaining paresanubhuti, realization of the Supreme Absolute Truth, by such brahma jnana.

(v) Suddha jnana - pure knowledge

It is by these various types of jnana that ordinary people generally expect to attain paresanubhuti. However, paresanubhuti is far beyond the scope of all such knowledge, and this has been proved above. Now, the first question to arise is this - Are such realizations possible? And secondly, if they are possible then what are the means to attain them? The answer to the first question is - certainly there is a possibility. And in the Gita, Bhagavan Sri Krsna personally responds to the second question:

tesam satata-yuktanam
bhajatam priti-purvakam
dadami buddhi-yogam tam
yena mam upayanti te
["Upon those who perform bhajana to Me with love, yearning for My eternal association, I bestow the transcendental knowledge by which they can come to Me." (Bhagavad-Gita 10.10)]

Suddha jnana can only awaken in one who has completely given up all desires and efforts for anyabhilasa (desires other than to serve Krsna), karma and the four types of jnana which have been mentioned above. At that time, the jiva understands that "constitutionally I am the servant of Bhagavan and my sole function is to serve Him." Being possessed of such suddha jnana, those who constantly engage in bhagavad bhajana with priti (affection) attain a ray of light in the form of eternal buddhi yoga from the sun of the supreme purusa. Only through this ray of light from the supreme sun can one attain paresanubhuti.

To attain paresanubhuti, calmness, a steady mind, and patient longing for the ray of Bhagavan's compassion are required. One cannot advance in a restless or fickle condition. However, this does not mean that one should become inactive, nor can one get any positive result by adopting an artificial means, such as astanga yoga, to make the mind steady. Therefore, the most desirable means is to perform bhajana, being constantly united with Him.

SrilaBhaktiPrajnanaKesavaGoswamiMaharajaSrilaMuniMandSrilaPrabhupada.jpg
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
Is Nityananda Sheshanaga?
Nitai! Thank you for your question. Yes Sri Nityananda Prabhu is non-different from Ananta-Deva who is also known as Shesha Naga. In all the pastimes of Lord Hari, Nityananda Balarama also descends to assist the Lord (Lakshmana in Rama Lila, Balarama in Krsna Lila, Seshnaga with Visnu), in such a way Lord Nityananda is constantly serving the Lord in various ways. Even the clothes of Lord Krsna (His yellow Pirthambhar) as well as His flute, His peacock crown, His ornaments are all manifestations of Lord Nityananda Prabhu. The Dhama (the holy abode where Lord Hari performs his pastimes) is also a manifestation of the Sandhini potency which comes from Lord Nityananda.
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
Nitai! After @ratikala mataji shared such beautiful harinam kirtans on the other thread, I felt inspired to share a kirtan that is very very dear to me (and I thought this would be appropriate thread to share it).


This ecstatic kirtan is so simply (only the Mahamantra) yet when I listen I want to jump and dance in ecstasy. Especially as around 3.10 when the tune becomes so filled with longing, and then finally 5.20 when it becomes fast. This kirtan is sung by Acincana Krsna das Babaji, who was one of the disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. His kirtans were out of this world! His life was filled with extreme humility, and he lived the life of a Babaji, accepting only what he needed to maintain his body. He was fully dedicated to the Nama. He would constantly be chanting, or doing kirtan, and to whomever he met we would laugh as say "Hare Krsna!". Despite his old age and seemingly frail body, whenever he picked up a mrdanga to glorify Krishna he would play the drum with masterful expertise. He would sing with intense devotional concentration, his voice expressing his deep inner feelings of love for Krishna. He would wander around Vraja mandala visiting the places of Krishna's pastimes. He would sit down at one and chant Krishna's glories with tears of ecstatic love in his eyes.

In a small song book, in which he kept notes, Krishna Dasa Babaji made this last entry before leaving this world:

"Chanting the holy name of Krishna is the true nectar. The Holy Name is like honey. Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare."

21.jpg


I have another one of his super awesome Kirtans, but it is not on youtube yet. Perhaps I will make a video and post it later.
 
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ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram Prabhu ji's

having retired from posting and listening to Bhajans I was thinking to post you , ....

such a nice peacfull , ....devotional mood , ..I do not know more but l think is part of a film ???


Jai jai more bhajans please
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Someone said "Radha isn't in the Vedas".

Well, duh, that is because Radha came AFTER the Vedas.

Actually, I don't think the citizens of Dwarka Gujarat would be very keen on talking about or recognizing the "scandalous village cow girl" from Braj, what a scandal to Queen if Krishna had a villager as His heartlove and girlfriend! So they aren't going to write glorius stanzas to Radha, no way.

But the "illiterate" and "low class" villagers who DID know Radha the Rani of Brai and cowgirl certain DID euloguise and love Her, and later when some of their children learned to read and write, they wrote down Her glories! Jai!
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Actually, some of these "low class" farmers and villagers of Braj turned out to be some great Historians, despite some mean ol' Brahmins who didn't want to allow them to read or write, especially meanies to those cowgirls of Braj. But even those Girls managed to capture Krishna's love for the village Cowgirl Radha by documenting the love affairs with flower petals and other innovative means, and Mothers in Braj told the wonderful History of Krishna stealing butter and His naughty leelas and told their children, and childrens children, and of course eventually the illiterate villagers did learn to read and write and have their savants and such despite some mean ol' Brahmins shaking sticks at them, and these villagers and great Historians all documented Krishna's beloved Radharani and you can only hide history so far, it manages to get it's way in the end! Jai Radharani the Glorious Village Girlfriend of Krishna Ki Jai!
 
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