Gaudiya Vaishnavism queries and discussion thread.

[ratikala]

namaskaram Prabhu jis , ...

by taking Darshan of lord Jaganatha one take darshan of so many divine lila manifestations of the lord himself ,

Lord Jagannath Swamy’s Stotra ​

(as passed on from Shri Chaitanya Maha Prabhu)



kadacit kalindi-tata-vipina-sangitaka-ravo

mudabhiri-nari-vadana-kamalasvada-madhupaha

rama-shambhu-brahmamara-pati-ganesharcita-pado

jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me



“Sometimes in great happiness Lord Jagannatha, with His flute, makes a loud concert in the groves on the banks of the Yamuna. He is like a bumblebee who tastes the beautiful lotus-like faces of the cowherd damsels of Vraja, and His lotus feet are worshiped by great personalities such as Lakshmi, Shiva, Brahma, Indra and Ganesha. May that Jagannatha Svami be the object of my vision.”

bhuje savye venum Shirasi Shikhi-puccham katitate

dukulam netrante sahacara-kataksham vidadhate

sada shrimad-vrindavana-vasati-lila-paricayo

jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me


“In His left hand Lord Jagannatha holds a flute. On His head He wears the feathers of peacocks and on His hips He wears fine yellow silken cloth. Out of the corners of His eyes He bestows sidelong glances upon His loving devotees and He always reveals Himself through His pastimes in His divine abode of Vrindavana. May that Jagannatha Svami be the object of my vision.”

mahambhodhes tire kanaka-rucire nila-shikhare

vasan prasadantah sahaja-balabhadrena balina

subhadra-madhya-sthah sakala-sura-sevavasara-do

jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me


“Residing on the shore of the great ocean, within a large palace situated upon the crest of the brilliant, golden Nilachala Hill, along with His powerful brother Balabhadra, and in the middle of Them His sister Subhadra, Lord Jagannatha bestows the opportunity for devotional service upon all godly souls. May that Jagannatha Svami be the object of my vision.”

kripa-paravarah sajala-jalada-shreni-ruciro

rama-vani-ramah sphurad-amala-punkeruha-makhaha

surendrair aradhyah shruti-gana-shikha-gita-charito

jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me



“Lord Jagannatha is an ocean of mercy and He is beautiful like a row of blackish rain clouds. He is the storehouse of bliss for Lakshmi and Sarasvati, and His face is like a spotless full-blown lotus. He is worshiped by the best of demigods and sages, and His glories are sung by the Upanishads. May that Jagannatha Svami be the object of my vision.”

ratharudho gacchan pathi milita-bhudeva-patalaih

stuti-pradurbhavam prati-padam upakarnya sadayaha

daya-sindhur bandhuh sakala-jagatam sindhu-sutaya

jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me



“When Lord Jagannatha is on His Ratha-yatra cart and is moving along the road, at every step there is a loud presentation of prayers and songs chanted by large assemblies of brahmanas. Hearing their hymns Lord Jagannatha is very favorably disposed towards them. He is the ocean of mercy and the true friend of all the worlds. May that Jagannatha Svami, along with His consort Lakshmi, who was born from the ocean of nectar, be the object of my vision.”

para-brahmapidah kuvalaya-dalotphulla-nayano

nivasi niladrau nihita-carano ‘nanta-shirasi

rasanando radha-sarasa-vapur-alingana-sukho

jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me


“He is the ornament of the head of Lord Brahma and His eyes are like the full-blown petals of the lotus. He resides on the Nilachala Hill, and His lotus feet are placed on the heads of Anantadeva. Lord Jagannatha is overwhelmed by the mellows of love and He becomes joyful in the embracing of the body of Srimati Radharani, which is like a cool pond. May that Jagannatha Svami be the object of my vision.”

na vai yace rajyam na cha kanaka-manikya-vibhavam

na yace ‘ham ramyam sakala-jana-kamyam vara-vadhum

sada kale kale pramatha-patina gita-charito

jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me



“I do not pray for a kingdom, nor for gold, rubies and wealth. I do not ask for an excellent and beautiful wife as desired by all men. I simply pray that Jagannatha Svami, whose glories are always sung by Lord Shiva, be the constant object of my vision.”

hara tvam samsaram drutataram asaram sura-pate

hara tvam papanam vitatim aparam yadava-pate

aho dine ‘nathe nihita-charano nishcitam idam

jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me



“O Lord of the demigods, please quickly remove this useless material existence I am undergoing. O Lord of the Yadus, please destroy this vast ocean of sins which has no shore. Alas, this is certain that Lord Jagannatha’s lotus feet are bestowed upon those who feel themselves fallen and have no shelter in this world but Him. May that Jagannatha Svami be the object of my vision.”​

 

[निताइ dasa]

namaskaram Prabhu jis , ...

by taking Darshan of lord Jaganatha one take darshan of so many divine lila manifestations of the lord himself ,

Such a beautiful bhajan, brings tears to my eyes...You truly understand the heart of the devotees Mataji. Thank you for sharing the full astakam of Lord Jaganatha. May Lord Jaganatha bless you all. I would like to share some pastimes of Lord Chaitanya in Puri with Sri Jaganatha:

"Now please hear about Lord Jagannatha's going to the Gundica temple while Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu danced before the Ratha car. The Lord performed kirtana for some time and, through His own endeavor, inspired all the devotees to dance. When the Lord Himself wanted to dance, all seven groups combined together. The Lord's devotees--including Srivasa, Ramai, Raghu, Govinda, Mukunda, Haridasa, Govindananda, Madhava and Govinda--all combined together. When Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu desired to jump high while dancing, He placed these nine people in the charge of Svarupa Damodara. These devotees [Svarupa Damodara and the devotees in his charge] sang along with the Lord, and they also ran beside Him. All the other groups of men also sang.Offering obeisances to the Lord with folded hands, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu raised His face toward Jagannatha and prayed as follows:

'Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto Lord Krsna, who is the worshipable Deity for all brahminical men, who is the well-wisher of cows and brahmanas, and who is always benefiting the whole world. I offer my repeated obeisances to the Personality of Godhead, known as Krsna and Govinda.'. All glories unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is known as the son of Devaki. All glories to the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is known as the light of the dynasty of Vrsni. All glories to the Supreme Personality of Godhead whose bodily luster is like that of a new cloud and whose body is as soft as a lotus flower. All glories to the Supreme Personality of Godhead who appeared on this planet to deliver the world from the burden of demons and who can offer liberation to everyone.' 'Lord Sri Krsna is He who is known as jana-nivasa, the ultimate resort of all living entities, and who is also known as Devaki-nandana or Yasoda-nandana, the son of Devaki and Yasoda. He is the guide of the Yadu dynasty, and with His mighty arms He kills everything inauspicious as well as every man who is impious. By His presence He destroys all things inauspicious for all living entities, moving and inert. His blissful smiling face always increases the pure desires of the gopis of Vrndavana. May He be all glorious and happy!'

Having recited all these verses from scripture, the Lord again offered His obeisances, and all the devotees, with folded hands, also offered prayers to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu danced and jumped high, roaring like thunder and moving in a circle like a wheel, He appeared like a circling firebrand. Wherever Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu stepped while dancing, the whole earth, with its hills and seas, appeared to tilt. When Caitanya Mahaprabhu danced, He displayed various blissful transcendental changes in His body. Sometimes He appeared as though stunned. Sometimes the hairs of His body stood on end. Sometimes He perspired, cried, trembled and changed color, and sometimes He exhibited symptoms of helplessness, pride, exuberance and humility.When Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu fell down with a crash while dancing, He would roll on the ground. At such times it appeared that a golden mountain was rolling on the ground. Nityananda Prabhu would stretch out His two hands and try to catch the Lord when He was running here and there. Advaita Acarya would walk behind the Lord and loudly chant "Hari bol! Hari bol!" again and again.Just to check the crowds from coming too near the Lord, they formed three circles. The first circle was guided by Nityananda Prabhu, who is Balarama Himself, the possessor of great strength. All the devotees headed by Kasisvara and Govinda linked hands and formed a second circle around the Lord. Maharaja Prataparudra and his personal assistants formed a third circle around the two inner circles just to check the crowd from coming too near. With his hands on the shoulders of Haricandana, King Prataparudra could see Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu dancing, and the King felt great ecstasy.

Everyone was astonished by the dancing of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and even Lord Jagannatha became extremely happy to see Him. The car came to a complete standstill and remained immobile while Lord Jagannatha, with unblinking eyes, watched the dancing of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. The goddess of fortune, Subhadra, and Lord Balarama both felt great happiness and ecstasy within Their hearts. Indeed, They were seen smiling at the dancing.
When Caitanya Mahaprabhu danced and jumped high, eight wonderful transformations indicative of divine ecstasy were seen in His body. All these symptoms were visible simultaneously. His skin erupted with goose pimples, and the hairs of His body stood on end. His body resembled the simuli [silk cotton tree], all covered with thorns. Indeed, the people became afraid just to see His teeth chatter, and they even thought that His teeth would fall out.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's whole body flowed with perspiration and at the same time oozed blood. He made the sounds "jaja gaga, jaja gaga" in a voice choked with ecstasy. Tears came forcefully from the eyes of the Lord, as if from a syringe, and all the people surrounding Him became wet. Everyone saw the complexion of His body change from white to pink, so that His luster resembled that of the mallika flower. Sometimes He appeared stunned, and sometimes He rolled on the ground. Indeed, sometimes His legs and hands became as hard as dry wood, and He did not move. When the Lord fell on the ground, sometimes His breathing almost stopped. When the devotees saw this, their lives also became very feeble. Water flowed from His eyes and sometimes through His nostrils, and foam fell from His mouth. These flowings appeared to be torrents of nectar descending from the moon.
After performing His devastating dance for some time, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mind entered into a mood of ecstatic love.After abandoning the dancing, the Lord ordered Svarupa Damodara to sing. Understanding His mind, Svarupa Damodara began to sing as follows. "Now I have gained the Lord of My life, in the absence of whom I was being burned by Cupid and was withering away." When this refrain was loudly sung by Svarupa Damodara, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu again began rhythmically dancing in transcendental bliss.


The car of Lord Jagannatha began to move slowly while the son of mother Saci went ahead and danced in front. While dancing and singing, all the devotees in front of Lord Jagannatha kept their eyes on Him. Caitanya Mahaprabhu then went to the end of the procession with the sankirtana performers.His eyes and mind fully absorbed in Lord Jagannatha, Caitanya Mahaprabhu began to play the drama of the song with His two arms. When Caitanya Mahaprabhu was dramatically enacting the song, He would sometimes fall behind in the procession. At such times, Lord Jagannatha would come to a standstill. When Caitanya Mahaprabhu again went forward, Lord Jagannatha's car would slowly start again.Thus there was a sort of competition between Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Lord Jagannatha in seeing who would lead, but Caitanya Mahaprabhu was so strong that He made Lord Jagannatha wait in His car.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Terese ji , ...

What form are you referring to Ratikala?

Adi Purusha , ..Govinda ,in his primordal form playing his Flute , ... , ...I managed to copy from the Youtube video at 4.17 minutes , ...He is so so Sweet here he even wears more southern style Crown and more Sri vainava like ornamants but with Krsna's Mukat , ..I wish to know where this deity is as he is totaly delightfull , ....
this was why I said look at this picture only whilst listening first to Govindam Adi Purusham then follow by chanting whilst still looking at this sweet form he will certainly take you to Goloka Vrindarban ...​

​

 

[निताइ dasa]

I just had a beautiful realisation, Jaya Jagannatha! The Jagannathastakam was written by Adi Sankaracharya when he was living (8th century), and we see here that in the 6th verse, Sankaracharya says "rasanando radha-sarasa-vapur-alingana-sukho". Here he is mentioning Radharani, all the way in the past! This shows that Radharani is not simply a fabrication created in the 12th century, but was accepted by Sankaracharya much before! Jaya Radharani

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Nimbarka (13th Century) was the first Vaishnava acharya to disseminate teachings about Radha." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radha#Nimbarka

 

[ratikala]

I just had a beautiful realisation, Jaya Jagannatha! , ......Jaya Radharani

Jai Jai , .....he is also mentionis that Siva ji , Sings the Glories of the Lord of the Universe , ....

na vai yace rajyam na ca kanaka-manikya-vibhavam
na yace ’ham ramyam sakala-jana-kamyam vara-vadhum
sada kale kale pramatha-patina gita-carito
jagannathah swami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me​

7. I do not pray for a kingdom, nor for gold, rubies, and wealth. I do not ask for an excellent and beautiful wife as desired by all men. I simply pray that Jagannatha Swami, whose glories are always sung by Lord Siva, be the constant object of my vision.

jai jai to all who sing the Grories of the Supreme Lord , ...

 

[निताइ dasa]

"Nimbarka (13th Century) was the first Vaishnava acharya to disseminate teachings about Radha." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radha#Nimbarka

Haribol. Yes yes, Radha tattva may have been revealed later, but that did not stop the acharayas from secretly mentioning Her . Just like Sukadeva Goswami mentions her indirectly.

 

[DeviChaaya]

Normally, Shaivas are not bitten by that 'exclusivity' bug. Sure, Shiva is their 'ishta', but they are equally respectful of Vishnu and his avataras.

I know I am replying very late but I am slowly reading through this thread and sometimes it makes me angry and other times sad. I just thought I would interject here; Shaivas (and Shaktas) generally don't comment upon the Vaishnav problems because Visnu is entirely absent from Shaiva theology. In Shakta theology he is there as a helper but it is Shakti that moves everything so why bother when we can wail at our Mother until She picks us up and silences our cries? It is said that the first guru is the Mother and that she is embodiment of Shakti and that is why it is so easy to return to our Mother's worship and love.

For Shaktas everything is Shakti, for Shaivas, what use to them are the theories of Vaisnavas when they simply do not apply?

 

[kalyan]

I know I am replying very late but I am slowly reading through this thread and sometimes it makes me angry and other times sad. I just thought I would interject here; Shaivas (and Shaktas) generally don't comment upon the Vaishnav problems because Visnu is entirely absent from Shaiva theology. In Shakta theology he is there as a helper but it is Shakti that moves everything so why bother when we can wail at our Mother until She picks us up and silences our cries? It is said that the first guru is the Mother and that she is embodiment of Shakti and that is why it is so easy to return to our Mother's worship and love.

For Shaktas everything is Shakti, for Shaivas, what use to them are the theories of Vaisnavas when they simply do not apply?

generally nArAyaNa in Sri Vaishnavism is not an he/she/it , a tattvam an entity which is incomprehensible, but when it comes with a form, that appears as Vishnu, Krushna, Varaha and infinite avataras, mostly it is depicted as purusha/he because a woman by nature is filled of love, mercy, compassion, forgiving among other things. The men by nature are commanding and controlling. In an office say, if the manager is a little loose and weak, the people will use him and try to overstep on him or try to throw him away to occupy his position, this is the nature of people. If you are weak, you would turn into a stepping stone. This is seen in every field. Just imagine, how commanding and controlling the universe creator has to be ? So that is one of the reason, why the owner of the universe is represented as male generally, although we see woman who are also commanding but that is not a generic trait...well.....

 

[Kirran]

So by this logic the presentation of God as male or female would depend on the gender roles prevalent in the society, right?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am comfortably ensconced in the Mother's lap with both Shiva and Vishnu to help me. Advantage of being a Shanmata (a village Hindu). As my wife says before starting a journey:

"Sadā Bhavāni dāhine, sanmukh rahen Ganesh; pānch deva raksha karen, Brahmā, Vishnu, Mahesh."
(May the Mother always be on my right, and Ganesha in front; five deities may protect us, Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh)

 

[Yogi1054]

In some areas worshippers of Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu pray together and the priest of Lord Krishna serve puja to Lord shiva

Here are two examples

http://rcmysore-portal.kar.nic.in/temples/anantheshwaratemple/History.htm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmasthala

 

[निताइ dasa]

Welcome to everyone to Gaudiya Thread . Jaya Radhe! Jaya Yogamaya!

karuṇāḿ kuru mayi karuṇā-bharite
sanaka-sanātana-varṇita-carite, radhe jaya jaya madhav dayite! -Rupa Goswami

"Please be merciful O Mother, for You are filled with mercy. Sanaka, Sanatana and the other Kumaras are constantly singing the glories of Your character. All Glories to Radharani, who is most dear to Lord Madhava!

 

[Kirran]

Om Namah Shivaya, Om Namo Narayanaya, Jai Sri Krishna, Jai Sri Radhe, Om Tat Sat Hari Om

 

[DeviChaaya]

Welcome to everyone to Gaudiya Thread . Jaya Radhe! Jaya Yogamaya!

karuṇāḿ kuru mayi karuṇā-bharite
sanaka-sanātana-varṇita-carite, radhe jaya jaya madhav dayite! -Rupa Goswami

"Please be merciful O Mother, for You are filled with mercy. Sanaka, Sanatana and the other Kumaras are constantly singing the glories of Your character. All Glories to Radharani, who is most dear to Lord Madhava!

Whenever I visit the Mahaprabhu mandir here in Melbourne I only have eyes for Shrimati Radharani. It is not Krishna's mercy I seek, it is our Mother's for she is full of love and tenderness for Her children but does not let us delude ourselves. She strips away our delusions gently - or fiercely - depending on our temperament for who else knows a child's personality better than a loving and doting Mother?

 

[Kirran]

Are there any Gaudiya sadhus?

 

[निताइ dasa]

Whenever I visit the Mahaprabhu mandir here in Melbourne I only have eyes for Shrimati Radharani. It is not Krishna's mercy I seek, it is our Mother's for she is full of love and tenderness for Her children but does not let us delude ourselves. She strips away our delusions gently - or fiercely - depending on our temperament for who else knows a child's personality better than a loving and doting Mother?

That is so nice to hear. You speak true Srimati Radharani is even more Merciful than Sri Krsna, because Sri Krsna is in "purusha" bhava, always dispensing justice and punishing the demons. But Srimati Radharani, being a mother to all, understands Her children. Jaya Radhe! Jaya Yogamaya! Jaya Mayadevi!

 

[निताइ dasa]

Are there any Gaudiya sadhus?

When Lord Gauranga appeared, all of the Lord's eternal associates appeared with Him. We consider these personalities Sadhus. The associates of Lord Chaitanya are far too many to describe, however I will the names of a few for my own purification. The full list can be found here. These names are from the Gaura Ganoddesa Dipika of Kavi Karnapura. Please also see the Guru Parampara chart a posted earlier, for the Sampradaya Line of the Gaudiyas.

Sri Krsna appeared as Lord Chaitanya, Sri Balarama appeared as Nityananda Prabhu. Sri Radhika appeared as Gadadhara Pandit, while Lord Shiva appeared as Adwaita Acharya. Narada Muni appeared as Srivasa Thakura, while Prahlad appeared as Haridas Thakura. The confidential associates of Radhika; the Gopis, appeared as the 6 Goswamis: Srila Rupa, Srila Sanatana, Srila Raghunatha dasa, Srila Gopala Bhatta, Srila Jiva, and Srila Raghunatha Bhatta, who wrote and established the Gaudiya Siddhanta. Hanuman-ji appeared as Murari Gupta, while Brihaspati appeared as Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya. The Cowherd friends of Sri Krsna appeared as Gauridas Pandit, Abhirama Thakura etc. In this way all the associates of Lord Krsna appeared again in Gaura Lila. They wrote many many books, which contain very beautiful realisations. The commentary of the Vedanta Sutra was first taught by Srila Chaitanyadeva to Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya (who was a previously renowned Adwaita-vadi), who in turn taught this to his disciple, Sri Madhusudana Vachaspati, who taught this to Srila Jiva Goswami, who then finally wrote this siddhanta down in his Sad-Sandarbhas.

Presently on this earth, many Gaudiya Sadhus remain, within Gaudiya Math and Iskcon, as well as its respective branches. Though all the Sannayasis of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati have disappeared, their disciples (such as my Parampujya Gurudeva, Srila Bhaktiratna Sadhu Nitaipresthiji) still remain giving Bhagavata Katha and preaching the message of Chaitanyadeva. The teachings of all our Acharayas and their works can be found here and here. Nitai!!!!

 

[Kirran]

Wonderful, thankyou swamiji.

A very solid and established tradition, may it continue to foster bhakti and ahimsa.

More specifically, are there Gaudiya sadhus in the sense of wandering sannyasins, who live with no home, no permanent place of residence, usually begging, wandering around South Asia? As far as I'm aware, the vast majority of such sadhus who are Vaishnava are of the Sri Sampradaya, more specifically being mostly Ramanandis.

I think the Brahma Sampradaya also has some sannyasins of this type, and I am sure there are Vishnu bhaktas within the Advaitic sampradayas too.

 

[निताइ dasa]

Wonderful, thankyou swamiji.

A very solid and established tradition, may it continue to foster bhakti and ahimsa.

More specifically, are there Gaudiya sadhus in the sense of wandering sannyasins, who live with no home, no permanent place of residence, usually begging, wandering around South Asia? As far as I'm aware, the vast majority of such sadhus who are Vaishnava are of the Sri Sampradaya, more specifically being mostly Ramanandis.

I think the Brahma Sampradaya also has some sannyasins of this type, and I am sure there are Vishnu bhaktas within the Advaitic sampradayas too.

Thank you. Yes, I think the Babajis of Sri Radhakund and Vrindavan live that lifestyle. They beg for food (madhukari) everyday, and eat whatever is offered to them. However they always return to Radha Kund when the day is over.

The sannayasa rules of Bhakisiddhanta Saraswati itself are not as renounced as those of other Sampradayas, and therefore many of our Gaudiya Sannayasis live in the Gaudiya Maths established around India in the association of other Vaishnavs.