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Gay Radicals Disrupt/Protest Worship Services

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I love how that add made a gross generalization on all Mormons and everyone has been praising it. And in this thread I get attacked for supposedly making a "generalization" against homosexuals that I have refuted at length. Nice work with the double standard everyone. Keep it up.
I disagree that the ad made a gross generalization on all Mormons. The ad criticized the LDS Church, not all Mormons, for its enormous impact on changing the law to barge in on peoples' private lives. The criticism was accurate and well-deserved. If people want to avoid this criticism they can choose to no longer give money to the LDS Church, or they can choose to accept the legitimate criticisms raised in this ad and use it to call for change in Church attitudes.

There's a similar difference between criticizing "Russia's actions" vs. making a gross generalization on ALL Russians, or criticizing the actions of Congress vs. generalizing ALL legislators. The LDS Church did effectively do what is portrayed in the ad, and if you are uncomfortable with that, you might consider withholding the money which (I assume) you voluntarily give to the LDS Church. Or at least accepting, rather than deflecting, legitimate criticism.
 
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Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I think a few Mormons here opposed the Church leadership's decision to go into this, for this very reason.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
I disagree that the ad made a gross generalization on all Mormons. The ad criticized the LDS Church, not all Mormons, for its enormous impact on changing the law to barge in on peoples' private lives. The criticism was accurate and well-deserved. If people want to avoid this criticism they can choose to no longer give money to the LDS Church, or they can choose to accept the legitimate criticisms raised in this ad and use it to call for change in Church attitudes.

There's a similar difference between criticizing "Russia's actions" vs. making a gross generalization on ALL Russians, or criticizing the actions of Congress vs. generalizing ALL legislators. The LDS Church did effectively do what is portrayed in the ad, and if you are uncomfortable with that, you might consider withholding the money which (I assume) you voluntarily give to the LDS Church. Or at least accepting, rather than deflecting, legitimate criticism.


ALL you have to say is...Oh ****! my people did that??..Well thats not how I feel..and I do not support it...

I have had to say that MANY MANY times as a Christian..I did NOT get mad at the people on the recieving end of the intrusions..

And to the ones that said "yes it is you...you are affiliated"...

I said NO IM NOT!

Period..

Love

Dallas
 
I think a few Mormons here opposed the Church leadership's decision to go into this, for this very reason.
Of course, I've seen their posts. They have to understand that an attack on "Mormons" or "the LDS Church" is not an attack on them personally.

It would be like a Republican, who concedes that his party enlarged government and spent waaay too much money these past 8 years, getting offended when non-Republicans attack what "the Republicans" have done the past 8 years. He should join the non-Republicans in their criticism, if he is sincere, not make excuses for his party, his fellow Republicans, and himself.
 
ALL you have to say is...Oh ****! my people did that??..Well thats not how I feel..and I do not support it...

I have had to say that MANY MANY times as a Christian..I did NOT get mad at the people on the recieving end of the intrusions..

And to the ones that said "yes it is you...you are affiliated"...

I said NO IM NOT!

Period..

Love

Dallas
That's exactly how I feel when non-Americans raise legitimate (and occasionally devastating) criticisms of the U.S. I DO feel a need to point out that not all Americans are alike....but I do NOT feel the need to complain of intolerance against Americans simply because a non-American criticized the U.S. I'm much more concerned about how accurate the criticism is, and what I can do to reform my country.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
That's exactly how I feel when non-Americans raise legitimate (and occasionally devastating) criticisms of the U.S. I DO feel a need to point out that not all Americans are alike....but I do NOT feel the need to complain of intolerance against Americans simply because a non-American criticized the U.S. I'm much more concerned about how accurate the criticism is, and what I can do to reform my country.

I do feel the need to point out (not all of us)....

But if its "true" I acknowledge ...(yes some are and Im sorry)

And yes ...lets get the facts jack..I mean..what do we all really want..(as a whole)..

I honestly believe..we all want sort of the same thing..

Love

Dallas
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
if you are uncomfortable with that, you might consider withholding the money which (I assume) you voluntarily give to the LDS Church. Or at least accepting, rather than deflecting, legitimate criticism.
He should join the non-Republicans in their criticism, if he is sincere, not make excuses for his party, his fellow Republicans, and himself.
I think it's problematic to be demanding that members of a group need to prove their sincerity when they say they don't agree with something that leaders or other members of the group do. Exactly how much does one have to do to prove one's sincerity and who are you (proverbial you) to judge?

My country has done things that I vehemently disagree with. And I have worked to change those policies, whether by voting, petitioning, or protesting. But I have not renounced my citizenship nor refused to pay the taxes that fund these things with which I don't agree. Have you? And yes, I have been critical of my country, and willing to take criticism, but only up to a certain point. When I perceive that the people making the criticisms are motivated more by being against my country than they are by justice then I stop listening to them, and I start defending my country, which after all, has its good side as well as its bad.
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
These people who are the epidemy of tolerance desecrate a house of worship. And the weenie cops did nothing.

Pretty soon are we going to police our own churches and keep the freeks of society out because our own law enforcement has left their fortitude in the car?

These freeks gave up their free speech rights when they crossed the line disrupting a group worshipping God according to thier rights under the Constitution.

Gay rights protesters disrupt Sunday service | lansingstatejournal.com | Lansing State Journal

First of all if you're going to call someone a name you might want to spell it right first. And hon the LDS took their rights away. If you're going to talk about the Constitution you might want to read the fourteenth amendment.
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
Ok, first, Zippy, calm down. Throwing insults back at them will accomplish nothing. Second, is this really how the gay community wants to present itself to the rest of us? First we get the revolting add about the LDS Church and then they quite literally invade another church screaming insults.

I don't think I can put my support behind the gay community if this kind of behavior continues. In fact, I think they have lost it completely.

So would you have said the same thing about the African-Americans like Malcolm X, the Black Panthers and Angela Davis? How disgusting you don't want to support civil rights. I guess you wouldn't have supported George Washington and the other rebels either would you?
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
I think we all want the same thing..(some want war)

Most of us want peae and security...Maybe Im naive..

But I believe the "majority" ..black white..purple and orange..

We just want to raise our children in peace..

Love

Dallas
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
Sounds like a weird, stupid, inappropriate protest to me. What the heck did they think that would accomplish?
Is it your normal practice to group all members of a group together, as if they represented all gay activists? Cuz, y'know, there's this Mormon group down in Texas that is doing some really weird stuff...

So when George Washington and the rebels did their whole revolution what do you think they wanted? And what about African-Americans and women protesting to get their civil rights?
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
So when George Washington and the rebels did their whole revolution what do you think they wanted? And what about African-Americans and women protesting to get their civil rights?
Oh bother! :rolleyes: Thank GAWD that George Washington, abolitionists, suffragists, and Civil Rights protesters were smart enough to fight the battles that actually advanced their cause, as opposed to staging meaningless protests designed simply to vent their anger at a convenient target.

Thank goodness that most BGLT equality activists know the difference too. You fling around the sacred names of those who have advanced justice and liberty before us without any real understanding of what they did.
 
I think it's problematic to be demanding that members of a group need to prove their sincerity when they say they don't agree with something that leaders or other members of the group do. Exactly how much does one have to do to prove one's sincerity and who are you (proverbial you) to judge?
Oh, I absolutely agree. I guess I wasn't being clear: I'm not demanding anyone prove their sincerity. I'm simply rejecting the accusations of intolerance and "gross generalizing" that have been directed in response to the TV ad in question. I think those accusations are off base.
 

UnityNow101

Well-Known Member
Zippy,

Remember that your boy, Jesus Christ, stormed the temple gates and overturned the tables therein, all because they had turned the temple of God into a place of money-launderers. I believe that today he would be storming the gates of the churches because they have been turned into places of intolerance. When a church is throwing millions of dollars into an intolerant agenda, it is time to storm their premises and let them know that intolerance will not be tolerated...
 

zippythepinhead

Your Tax Dollars At Work
Zippy,

Remember that your boy, Jesus Christ, stormed the temple gates and overturned the tables therein, all because they had turned the temple of God into a place of money-launderers. I believe that today he would be storming the gates of the churches because they have been turned into places of intolerance. When a church is throwing millions of dollars into an intolerant agenda, it is time to storm their premises and let them know that intolerance will not be tolerated...
I believe that he would drive out the lunatic fringe gays for violation of a house or worship.:yes:
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Mountain Meadows Massacre?:areyoucra
Right!

I assume that if you're okay with drawing generalizations about the entire gay rights movement from a small group of people in this incident, you'd be okay with me drawing generalizations about all Mormons from that incident... wouldn't you?
 

zippythepinhead

Your Tax Dollars At Work
So when George Washington and the rebels did their whole revolution what do you think they wanted? And what about African-Americans and women protesting to get their civil rights?
George Washington and the Founding fathers knew that if they lost they were dead men. The understood who they were going up against, the greatest military power in the world at that time. They pleged their lives, property, and sacred honor for the American Revolution.

Point Two: Sufferage was a legitimate protest as women were denied a whole list of rights such as voting, inheritence rights, divorce rights, et al.. Largely, these demonstrations were peaceful. I am sure if I did my history their were radical elements here too. But the majority of rights were won through peaceable means.

Point Three: Blacks were denied many of rights won during the Civil War that had previously been denied by their slave status. When reconstruction ended, Jim Crow laws were put in place to keep blacks from gaining power in the South. Even during the era of Jim Crow only black males could vote.

Blacks also largely gained their rights through peacable means. Marches, sit ins, protesting, were all largely non violent. Of course you see overreaction by both sides in instances such as hosing down of black and white protesters on one side when provocation was not initiated by the protesters. But many protesters of the more radical element did get out of line and the law had to deal with them.

Take Rosa Parks. What she did was one of the greatest acts of courage by refusing to go to the back of the bus. Was this illegal? Yes. Violent? No.

Blacks of the Civil Rights era just wanted equal rights and protection under existing laws. That is all. They did not seek special status over their white or other race brothers, just equity under the law. Republicans supported the black cause more than Democrats ironically.

Now to the gays and marriage. Gays want equality under the law. They should have equality under the laws of the land. But, first marriage is a heterosexual institution. It is meant as a legal contract between a man and a woman for the purposes of starting the foundation of a family and having children.

Homosexuality is not instituted on that premise. Neither are homosexual unions. You cannot deny some group of people a "right" that does not exist for them. Give them civil unions and equal protection for their partners. But it cannot be marriage even if government wants it to be defined that way. Marriage is a heterosexual union, not homosexual. In my world view you call a spade a spade.

The fight for civil rights as mentioned above were for all human beings. They were not unique to gender, race, religion, creed, or sex. They were intended for all people, and equity under the law.

Homosexual "marriage" is not meant to be. It flies in the face of thousands of years of tradition of successful rearing and raising of families in societies from tribal primitive to advanced civilization.

No one is out to deny our homosexual citizens their rights. Just protecting a heterosexual right unique to that relationship.

Take "Fiddler on the Roof". Tevia has three daughters and tradition to deal with.

The first daughter weds an orthordox Jew, but he is not matched up by tradition. He is still a Jew.

The second daughter weds a secular Jew. He is not orthodox, nor is he practicing. But he is still a Jew. Both of these changes Tevia could recognize, even with hardship.

Along comes the third daughter and wants to marry a gentile. Although a good man, Tevia draws a line in the sand and says that even tradition has it's limits and marrying outside of the faith is not one of them. He rejects his third daughter's marriage.

Now I am not arguing for or against the marriage of the third daughter or that all traditions are correct. But I am illustrating that people can push, and push, until someone draws a line in the sand and states no more.

That is what the people of some 30 states of the Union have done with marriage. They have defined it as it has always been between a man and a woman, a heterosexual institution. Even polygamy, where and when it has been practiced is heterosexual in nature where that type of marital union is legal.

But homosexuality never has been or will be marriage. Change all the laws you want and bring down the wrath of the judges. It won't change what marriage is.

Again, no one is out to take away from gays their rights of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness under the law. We as a society are drawing a line in the sand and saying no to redefining marriage as something it is not.

And finally vandalism and debaucherous behavior have never won anyone anything except the animosity of society at large. Take the KKK. They are part of the lunatic fringe. Most of society rejects their white supremacy and should.

It is the same with any other extremisim. You don't win support by punching people in the nose so that you can get your own plastic surgery done.:)
 

texan1

Active Member
And finally vandalism and debaucherous behavior have never won anyone anything except the animosity of society at large. Take the KKK. They are part of the lunatic fringe. Most of society rejects their white supremacy and should.:)

I agree that vandalism is wrong. But it's terribly insulting to compare this to the KKK. The KKK is not an organization fighting for their civil rights. They are an organization that has a history of performing hate crimes against African Americans.
 
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