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'Gay/trans panic' defense

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
(San Francisco, California) In the early hours of Oct. 4, 2002, 17-year-old Gwen Araujo was punched, gashed, choked, tied up and strangled.

And that, a jury decided, was murder, despite defense claims Araujo provoked the attack by not telling her male companions - and occasional sex partners - that she was born biologically male.

The verdicts, which followed murder convictions in the beating death of gay college student Matthew Shepard as well as those in the murder of Brandon Teena, whose story was told in the movie "Boys Don't Cry," may suggest a shift in societal attitudes.

Getting murder convictions is still tough; defendants continue to use "gay panic" or "trans panic" defenses, and often avoid more serious charges in such killings.

Still, transgender advocates hope the Araujo verdicts mean that Americans are much less likely to believe that people who defy traditional gender definitions were asking for brutal retribution.
. . .

A gay, or trans panic defense is that a defendant killed or hurt someone of the same sex in a rage after they had sex or thought they were on the receiving end of a sexual overture.

While Araujo jurors apparently weren't convinced of that, at least for two of the three men charged with killing Gwen, other decisions have gone differently.

In Central California, a Fresno man recently pleaded guilty to manslaughter and got the minimum sentence, four years, after claiming he panicked when he discovered the woman he'd brought home was biologically male. He had stabbed the victim 20 times. (story)

And in Kentucky, a man charged with murdering a gay man and stuffing his body into a suitcase was convicted of a lesser charge of second-degree manslaughter earlier this year after arguing that he'd defended himself against an unwanted sexual advance from the victim. (story)

Probably the best-known panic defense was evoked in the 1998 murder of Shepard, who was tied to a fence in Laramie, Wyo., pistol-whipped, robbed and left for dead in the cold, dying five days later of massive head injuries. Defense attorneys claimed one of the two men charged in the case flew into a rage after Shepard made a pass at him.

The judge disallowed the defense and the men received multiple life sentences.

While I'm glad people are starting to realize that the gay/trans panic defense is not a defense at all, just a sick and poor excuse, it still disgusts me that it even exists. :banghead3

What do you guys think? Is there any excuse to act out so violently at the discovery that someone is gay or trans?
 

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit

What do you guys think? Is there any excuse to act out so violently at the discovery that someone is gay or trans?
No excuse. I can barely even think of people thinking this is justifiable because it makes my heart feel sick.

If you find out someone is a space alien and is intent on killing everyone, that might be an excuse to attack them. So unless I see feely-bobbers on the victims' head, I can't understand hurting someone unless they were trying to hurt you. That goes for all humans.
 

Quoth The Raven

Half Arsed Muse
It's right up there with the 'woman wore a short skirt and heels so was asking to be raped' defence.
Why in the world these sort of excuses as a defence are even ever vaguely considered legitimate is beyond me.
 

robtex

Veteran Member
Jensa said:
(
While I'm glad people are starting to realize that the gay/trans panic defense is not a defense at all, just a sick and poor excuse, it still disgusts me that it even exists

What do you guys think? Is there any excuse to act out so violently at the discovery that someone is gay or trans?
Reason is the proper wording and even that could be a subject of debate on a case per case basis. I would say that the word reason could be subtituted for excuse and than debated from there on a case per case basis.

People in the end do things for two reasons.

1) to bring about pleasure
2) to remove displeasure

The justification if it caused harm to others is the focus of the case. in the event of killing others for their own sexual preference and would find it disturbing if that was justified by a court but imagine it does get justified in the rurual areas in the same way the kkk justified racial violence in alabama and georgia in the 60's and 70's prompting the southern poverty law center to step in
 

The Black Whirlwind

Well-Known Member
though i would be thouroghly disgusted and repulsed by any weirdo (of the same sex) trying to make a pass at me, killing them for it is going too far.
 

Circle_One

Well-Known Member
What do you guys think? Is there any excuse to act out so violently at the discovery that someone is gay or trans?
Well, seeing as my boyfriend is Transgendered, I cannot, see ANY excuse, whatsoever for this kind of behaviour. It makes me sick and so sad for every transgendered person alive when stuff like this happens and the people involved have the ability to plead "gay/trans panic". It's complete BS and like Lady said, exactly the same as someone pleading the "she was dressed that way, so she asked for it" defense in a rape case.

The fact that there are people out there, other than the killers (or batterers/assaulters, etc), such as the jurors, who allow these sick individuals to cop this plea and get away with it, makes me even more sick to my stomach than the killers themselves.

There is NO excuse for killing/beating someone simply because they are gay or transgendered. None at all.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
I don't really know what to say; there is obviously no excuse for that sort of behaviour. I think feathers said it all.:(
 

Ardhanariswar

I'm back!
How the hell is that panic? Panic would be "OMG, I think I'm going to run away from you and not KILL you." stabbing people 20 times is rage, not panic. people have lost the meaning of words. a conservative judge would obviously let them off because their violence was "insinuated."

Its just how some murderers' plead insanity.
 

Flappycat

Well-Known Member
The guy had commited murder, and he was just trying to save his own bacon. The availability of this defense, however, is inexcusable.
 

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
TheJedi said:
though i would be thouroghly disgusted and repulsed by any weirdo (of the same sex) trying to make a pass at me, killing them for it is going too far.
Sorry, but this is a huge pet peeve of mine. Why exactly would they be a weirdo for making a pass at someone? First thing that jumps to my mind isn't 'weirdo' considering how common flirting is in social life. It's one thing if they go into a dialogue about how they want to have kinky sex with you, it's another if they just 'make a pass at' you.
 

Flappycat

Well-Known Member
Why would anyone be disgusted or repulsed by someone who finds him attractive? Unless a fellow is trying to feel you up, which I would certainly object to, what is the problem?
 

constantine

the Great
i went up to this girl...she said high my name is Sheena.
i thought she'd be good to go with a little funky cold medina.
i took her to my crib and everything went well as planned
but when she got undressed, it was a big ol mess, Sheena was a man.
i said i dont fool around with no Oscar Meyer wiener
you must be sure your girl is pure, for the funky cold medina.
 

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
Hey, there's something we have in common... only mine's more of a 'I don't swing that way' than creeped out. :D
 

Flappycat

Well-Known Member
TheJedi said:
If a guy finds me attractive, it really creeps me out.
No, you get creeped out if a fellow tries to feel you up. You get creeped out if a fellow seems to be obsessing over you. You get creeped out when a fellow can't take "no" for an answer. If a fellow won't stop giving you the look-over, you tell him to take a picture and stop trying to bore a hole through you, and feel free to slap anyone who tries to feel you up. If a fellow comments that you're well-dressed, though, you give a luke-warm "thank you" and move on with your day. A homosexual man should be considered perfectly capable of showing self-restraint and should be given no more or less leniency than a heterosexual man, so it's simply ridiculous to get paranoid over every fellow who happens to cast a glance your way. Distinguish between lecherous jerks and innocent fellows who just happen to look your way, for there is a difference.

Excuse me, Jedi. All this isn't directed at you, just generally at heterosexual men who can't understand the concept of a gay man who is capable of self-control. I'm so sick of fellows taking a step back as soon as they discover which way I swing as if I could start humping their legs at any moment. Pardon me, but I'd insist on a few candlelit dinners before even contemplating any kind of sexual relations with a fellow, and I already happen to be permanently attached to someone. I don't think of fellows as objects and get just as offended as you'd expect anyone else to be when some jerk decides to make unwelcome advances. I'm a human being, I try to act like one, and I expect others to do the same.



[/rant]
 

The Black Whirlwind

Well-Known Member
its just the way i am. I dont consider people who give me a passing glance a threat. but if someone finds me attractive and is staring, i get creeped out.
 

Ardent Listener

Active Member
In the orginal artical that I read, it went on to explain that the men discovered that Araujo was not a genetic woman only while they were forcing her panties off. It makes me wonder what their defense would have been if she was a genetic woman and had raped her?
 

Bennettresearch

Politically Incorrect
A Hah! It is the Twinkie defense in disguise!!!

Assault and/or murder is not excusable. However, it is over-reaching to place the burden on others to accept homosexuality. People have as much right to reject it as those who are sympathetic want to have it accepted as normal behavior. You cannot deny that a lot of homosexuals are predatory and aggressive, just like a lot of heterosexuals are.

Try being trapped by a homosexual sometime, I have been. I was giving him a cab ride and he started asking me how I was doing. I said just fine thanks. And he persued. No, how are you really doing? I said what do you want, my life story? He got very angry and upon being dropped of went inside and phoned in a complaint against me. Huh? Of course I had this coming because I must be a homophobe right? We all have to be careful about what we are saying or doing to whom and this includes everyone!!! Is it only OK to offend a white male heterosexual nowadays? Are we open game because we have no defense?
 

Flappycat

Well-Known Member
TheJedi said:
its just the way i am. I dont consider people who give me a passing glance a threat. but if someone finds me attractive and is staring, i get creeped out.
Oh, staring gives you the creeps. Hahaha! Join every woman ever to walk the Earth! *snickers* Let me guess: it makes you feel naked? :D Oh, forget that little rant, hehe. I don't *snerks* blame you. Think about this next time you sit on a park bench mentally undressing every woman who walks by. :cool: Be honest, now! You've done that! Yes you have!
 
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