'Gay/trans panic' defense

[Bennettresearch]

Ok, a little misunderstanding of my statements.

1. Being a cab driver is to be trapped sometimes by anyone getting in your cab and inflicting their ideas upon you. This one only one occurance of the same thing that happened a lot. That is, the insistant probing and not leaving it well enough alone. What did I say? I said "What do you want, my life story?"

2. There was no doubt that he was homosexual. Kick at it all that you want but as a social group they exhibit much the same mannerisms. This is objective empirical data.

3. Hi Maize, I stated clearly that it is wrong to assault or murder. I would be the first to defend against this. It may be that I am used to the subject being escalated from there and if I were to not fully accept the homosexual thing than it would be assumed that I meant to do them harm.

If this thread does not go beyond the scope of assault and/or murder of a homosexual, then I agree 100% that this is wrong. What is apparent however, is that it is more of a singling out of this one group. I may be mistaken.

 

[Jaymes]

How do you know he wasn't 'meterosexual'? To say gay people act like this or that is just ignorance. I know several straight men who have a lisp and are very friendly, but that by no means makes them gay.

 

[Green Gaia]

There was no doubt that he was homosexual. Kick at it all that you want but as a social group they exhibit much the same mannerisms. This is objective empirical data.

So he didn't tell you he was gay, you just assumed he was?

 

[Flappycat]

Not saying there is anything wrong or out of line about it. Simply that my reaction would be completely different. In fact violence wouldn't even occur to me (unless, for example, they slapped me on the *** too hard and it hurt). I am fully aware that violence is deemed acceptable in these situations; I simply cannot understand why.

It seems unproductive. If I put my arm around somebody, for example, and they kicked me in the balls, my triggered response would be to hurt them as much as possible. Therefore, I cannot expect another person to act differently so I dont kick em in the balls.

Some people just react negatively to invasions of their personal space.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Denial Denial Denial,

It is obvious that you are defenders of the whole homosexual thing. Maize and Jensa. How do I know????? Well................ If I picked him up out of a gay bar, and he was acting like all of the other gays that come out of this place, I am wrong in "assuming" he was gay?????

You see, I moved back to my home town some years ago and driving cab was a temporary thing I did. The entire Seattle scene was a big surprise to me. It had changed considerably. The biggest surprise was the "in your face" pro-active agendas that were foisted upon me. You assume that I instigated something but you are wrong. It was only supposed to be a cab ride and not a "beat up on the conservative" ride.

You see, I was brought up here and the biggest no no was invading someone else's space. If someone might have said something you don't like, you just ignored it and went away. In my social days, in your face people were shunned. A simple "I am fine" answer sufficed. To take it any farther is to be invasive and brings on a rightful question of just what the heck do you want anyway? I had the opportunity to see people in their real life settings and not some glittery idealistic viewpoint of who and what they were. That is why you are having trouble with my observations.

 

[Jaymes]

It is obvious that you are defenders of the whole homosexual thing. Maize and Jensa.

I try to make it pretty obvious that I am, since I'm lesbian...

How do I know????? Well................ If I picked him up out of a gay bar, and he was acting like all of the other gays that come out of this place, I am wrong in "assuming" he was gay?????

It's a reasonable jump, but it's still an assumption. Straight people go to gay bars with friends.

 

[Flappycat]

Ok, a little misunderstanding of my statements.

1. Being a cab driver is to be trapped sometimes by anyone getting in your cab and inflicting their ideas upon you. This one only one occurance of the same thing that happened a lot. That is, the insistant probing and not leaving it well enough alone. What did I say? I said "What do you want, my life story?"

It sounds like you need to get a different job. I've never been a cab driver and thus don't know how sick and tired you get of being trapped in a tiny cabin with someone determined to make conversation about something you simply aren't interested in hearing, so that's pretty much all I can say about it.

2. There was no doubt that he was homosexual. Kick at it all that you want but as a social group they exhibit much the same mannerisms. This is objective empirical data.

Umm...I don't? My mate doesn't? I've known plenty of straight guys who do? Kick it around all you want, but a stereotype is a stereotype: not always unjustified but never perfectly reliable.

It may be that I am used to the subject being escalated from there and if I were to not fully accept the homosexual thing than it would be assumed that I meant to do them harm.

Bah, all I ever ask is that you don't act like a weirdo whenever you find out a fellow's homo. This ain't targeted strictly at you, it's just some fellas go all goofy they realize they're in the presence of one of the fabled queers. I keep thinking "what? You want me to start dragging Celine Diane? Go away!" (actually said something like that once)

 

[Green Gaia]

It is obvious that you are defenders of the whole homosexual thing. Maize and Jensa.

Funny that...

 

[michel]

[PART QUOTE=Bennettresearch]
"It is obvious that you are defenders of the whole homosexual thing. Maize and Jensa." [/PART QUOTE]

Actually, so am I bennetresearch; sorry, I haven't had a chance to get to this thread until now; why do homosexuals bother you ?

 

[Flappycat]

It is obvious that you are defenders of the whole homosexual thing. Maize and Jensa. How do I know????? Well................ If I picked him up out of a gay bar, and he was acting like all of the other gays that come out of this place, I am wrong in "assuming" he was gay?????

Not at all. In fact, I wouldn't really want to associate with the type who congregate in gay bars.

You see, I moved back to my home town some years ago and driving cab was a temporary thing I did. The entire Seattle scene was a big surprise to me. It had changed considerably. The biggest surprise was the "in your face" pro-active agendas that were foisted upon me. You assume that I instigated something but you are wrong. It was only supposed to be a cab ride and not a "beat up on the conservative" ride.

Sounds like it can become rather obnoxious. It didn't come into existence ex nihilo, and the resentment is not something I wouldn't predict showing up in some places, considering the crap homosexuals have had to deal with in the past, but seriously, it sounds like they're just going overboard in some places.

You see, I was brought up here and the biggest no no was invading someone else's space.

Yay! :woohoo:

If someone might have said something you don't like, you just ignored it and went away. In my social days, in your face people were shunned. A simple "I am fine" answer sufficed. To take it any farther is to be invasive and brings on a rightful question of just what the heck do you want anyway?

Oh, I just repeat the standard reply until they get the point.

I had the opportunity to see people in their real life settings and not some glittery idealistic viewpoint of who and what they were. That is why you are having trouble with my observations.

:areyoucra You're talking to queers, dude.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Straight people go to gay bars with friends

Another point, some bars people assume to be gay bars really aren't. A local bar that is considered a gay bar is actually an alternative bar. It just happens to be that alot of gay people go thier, mainly because the owners are gay. I also know quite a few straight people go thier.

It seems unproductive. If I put my arm around somebody, for example, and they kicked me in the balls, my triggered response would be to hurt them as much as possible. Therefore, I cannot expect another person to act differently so I dont kick em in the balls.

I wouldn't kick anyone in the balls. If some gay guy comes up to me, and puts his arm around me, I would first remove it, them reply that I'm straight. If he kept on doing it, and being persistent about it, thats when I will throw a slight punch to let the guy know, I'm straight, and theres nothing you can do to make me change that.
But as I said, its been so long since anyone has came up to me in a friendly way, it would be abit odd, rather the person be male or female.

 

[Flappycat]

Another point, some bars people assume to be gay bars really aren't. A local bar that is considered a gay bar is actually an alternative bar. It just happens to be that alot of gay people go thier, mainly because the owners are gay. I also know quite a few straight people go thier.

Oh? Interesting.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Michel, Hi

Actually I am not down on gays. What my only issues are is when someone is so busy projecting their agenda and wearing it like a badge, they should respect the space and thoughts of others. I am insulted that some think that I am so stupid as to not know who I am talking to out there in the world. Believe me, if someone doesn't get in my face they won't have any problem from me. I truly practice live and let live. Let's be honest here, it is a social agenda and people are pro-active and defensive about it and if you say anything that disagrees with this it brings on all manner of lashing out. Which has been best demonstrated by Flappy's name calling.

 

[Mike182]

Michel, Hi

Actually I am not down on gays. What my only issues are is when someone is so busy projecting their agenda and wearing it like a badge, they should respect the space and thoughts of others. I am insulted that some think that I am so stupid as to not know who I am talking to out there in the world. Believe me, if someone doesn't get in my face they won't have any problem from me. I truly practice live and let live. Let's be honest here, it is a social agenda and people are pro-active and defensive about it and if you say anything that disagrees with this it brings on all manner of lashing out. Which has been best demonstrated by Flappy's name calling.

i can agree with that

but also, if people do not speak out about issues, surely no social change will ever occur, and thus progression may not be achieved!

the agenda i have is to achieve some sort of equality between the rights of gay and straight people, i deny this not

but i have great respect for people who also speak out against this aswell, some of them are good debators and all have perfectly valid points



regarding you earlier post, you speak only of gay people who come out from gay bars

trust me, these are not representative of the entire gay population

the problem with these threads about sexuality is that people do tend to be very assertive of their views of not violating other peoples rights, and thats a fine view to have, but remember, blessed are the peace makers, for they are the sons of God

C_P

 

[Ardhanariswar]

Michel, Hi

Actually I am not down on gays. What my only issues are is when someone is so busy projecting their agenda and wearing it like a badge, they should respect the space and thoughts of others. I am insulted that some think that I am so stupid as to not know who I am talking to out there in the world. Believe me, if someone doesn't get in my face they won't have any problem from me. I truly practice live and let live. Let's be honest here, it is a social agenda and people are pro-active and defensive about it and if you say anything that disagrees with this it brings on all manner of lashing out. Which has been best demonstrated by Flappy's name calling.

This lashing out only started because one guy felt uneasy while checked out by a *gay* man. This is obviously translated into homophobia, which I do and don't think is true. For me it depends on who is checking me out. First of all, I would be flattered, I do not have an ego the size of titanic. So basically people misunderstand and think that gays, because they are labeled by thier sexual orientation only seek gay sex and try to get some from everybody. This of course is not helped by the 80s attitude of "if it feels good, do it" and the aids disease in the gay community.

I dont think its fair to do this just because the guy was gay. I mean serously, he thought that luke was gay, maybe luke was displaying some gay mannerisms to give him away. We really do not know the facts. Maybe luke looks like a girl and the guy who was making a pass at him was actually straight. I mean, it did happen a few times, who is to blame all homosexuals of being predetors.

this thread is getting to be really silly. I mean c'mon, you cannot label a whole group of people sex crazed. its insane and untrue. Not to mention hurtful.

You find it alright to call homosexuals weird and unnatural (which is downright insulting to us) and yet you are offended when we call you closeminded.

Very silly indeed.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Hi corrupt priest,

I concur with your statements. I was relating an incident that was a common occurance while I drove cab. It is only the defensive who look upon it like an attack.

Hi Ard,

Yes it got really silly, which was actually my point. I was not coming in to say anything about homosexuals as a whole because to generalize like that is to be mistaken. No matter what, we are all individuals. Where things got heated was that upon relating a common incident, meaning more than just a couple of times, the situation got ugly. And this is my point. If, like priest says, there is to be equality, then the conversation cannot be one sided. In other words, all things gay are not necessarily good and I wasn't making an indictment against an entire group. Maybe I shouldn't have put in my two bits and this thread should be renamed as a touchy feely commiseration session on the victimhood of gays.

 

[Green Gaia]

this thread should be renamed as a touchy feely commiseration session on the victimhood of gays.

I am shocked. Are you suggesting that Gwen Araujo was not victimized and murdered because she was transgendered? That's what this thread is about in case you forgot among all the "gays creep me out" posts.

 

[Jaymes]

Maybe I shouldn't have put in my two bits and this thread should be renamed as a touchy feely commiseration session on the victimhood of gays.

Is that to say you don't believe violence against gays has increased over the years?

 

[Bennettresearch]

Hi Maize,

I don't care if she was gay!!! All crimes of this nature are heinous. I am for humanity, not just for one group. For godsake, I have been physically attacked for no apparent reason a number of times! I can see the headlines now, "White Heterosexual Male" killed last night. news at eleven. I said very early on that this man had NO defense. People mistook me about the "Twinkie Defense" which some people might not remember. It was that a person should be excused because they ate too many twinkies and this caused them to commit a crime of violence. Calm down, a little opposition never hurt anyone.

 

[Green Gaia]

Hi Maize,

I don't care if she was gay!!! All crimes of this nature are heinous. I am for humanity, not just for one group. For godsake, I have been physically attacked for no apparent reason a number of times! I can see the headlines now, "White Heterosexual Male" killed last night. news at eleven.

When was the last time a white heterosexual male was beaten, raped and murdered for being a white heterosexual male? I'm sorry you were attacked, but I doubt it was because you are a white heterosexual male. That does not lessen what happened to you in the least, please understand me. But if we are going to stop crimes like this against BGLT persons from happening for no other reason than they are BGLT people, it must be talked about.