Gender Neutral Bathrooms converted back

[Orbit]

I disagree with the "debunking" conclusion. The first study was done in Mass. only, and as we know, the general concensus these days is that individual studies are often suspect, and we need meta-studies. The second article contained zero citations.

But regardless, the fear and dread are there, and they are there for a reason. And you seem willing to subject ALL women to increased negative feelings for what again, to accommodate a handful of people?

I and other ciswomen have told you this before, but you ignore us because you are so married to your view that you can't take in new information: We are not worried about going to the bathroom. Going to the bathroom now is the same as it ever was.

 

[Revoltingest]

My wife and daughters feel so foolish now that you've cleared things up

They should feel enlightened.

 

[Revoltingest]

good to see you're drinking your koolaid on a regular basis, you'd hate to get back to reality.

Just applying your rationale to other situations.
Reduction ad absurdumish.

 

[icehorse]

I and other ciswomen have told you this before, but you ignore us because you are so married to your view that you can't take in new information: We are not worried about going to the bathroom. Going to the bathroom now is the same as it ever was.

More mind reading! Listen, I care not at all about your "lived experience". I care about the broader population.

Several times on this forum I've heard "you've been told". WOW!! Just WOW!!! Do you speak for all women???

 

[icehorse]

Just applying your rationale to other situations.
Reduction ad absurdumish.

wait, what?

 

[Orbit]

More mind reading! Listen, I care not at all about your "lived experience". I care about the broader population.

Several times on this forum I've heard "you've been told". WOW!! Just WOW!!! Do you speak for all women???

You don't seem to have a problem speaking for all women, though.

 

[Revoltingest]

wait, what?

You spoke of threats men pose to women.
It lacked any quantitative analysis of that problem
regarding lavatories, nor the problem of denying
transwomen the right to use the women's lavatory.
Thus your singular criterion was men posing a risk
to women in lavatories. Given that men pose a
risk to men in men's lavatories, the same solution,
ie, banning them, should apply.

 

[icehorse]

You don't seem to have a problem speaking for all women, though.

Just using stats and utilitarianism.

 

[Orbit]

You dismiss stats that don't support your opinion. Case in point: Gender Identity Nondiscrimination Laws in Public Accommodations: a Review of Evidence Regarding Safety and Privacy in Public Restrooms, Locker Rooms, and Changing Rooms - Sexuality Research and Social Policy

 

[icehorse]

Your investment in a resentful ideology and fixation on trans people have reached the point where you are now openly minimizing and disparaging the input of women who disagree with you, including the accusation of misogyny that you made in post #39.

What exactly do you think my resentful ideology is?

As for post #39, ANYONE can be a misogynist.

This is just unfortunate to watch.

It's sad for me to see over and over again - what appears to be virtue signalling - overriding logic, common sense, and decency.

 

[icehorse]

You dismiss stats that don't support your opinion. Case in point: Gender Identity Nondiscrimination Laws in Public Accommodations: a Review of Evidence Regarding Safety and Privacy in Public Restrooms, Locker Rooms, and Changing Rooms - Sexuality Research and Social Policy

isn't this the same study you posted earlier that I already responded to?

 

[Orbit]

What exactly do you think my resentful ideology is?

As for post #39, ANYONE can be a misogynist.



It's sad for me to see over and over again - what appears to be virtue signalling - overriding logic, common sense, and decency.

Your resentful ideology is evidenced by your weekly posting of anti-trans threads, and your refusal to engage in good faith with the people who respond. When they call you out on your tactics, you insult them.

 

[Orbit]

isn't this the same study you posted earlier that I already responded to?

Your "response" was to dismiss a peer-reviewed study.

 

[Debater Slayer]

What exactly do you think my resentful ideology is?

The insistence on saying "trans men are not men"/"trans women are not women" while accusing people who disagree of buying into "TRA agendas," along with deriving from that statement an array of harmful positions, such as the idea that trans women in women's bathrooms are inherently more likely to be dangerous than cis women. All of this happens amid your refusal to acknowledge or discuss people's points instead of misrepresenting their points and accusing them of vices like "misogyny" and "virtue signaling."

As for post #39, ANYONE can be a misogynist.

But not for merely disagreeing with you.

It's sad for me to see over and over again - what appears to be virtue signalling - overriding logic, common sense, and decency.

I don't really care about your evaluation of what is or isn't "virtue signaling," "logic," "common sense," or "decency." You have already tried to insinuate that those who don't share your views on trans issues are agreeing with "TRA agendas."

Also, since you keep doing this in many posts: the usage of the emojis like you did above comes across as affected and insincere. It doesn't lend your points any more credibility or make them sound less biased when you present yourself as "sad" over any number of perceived or alleged "problems" with other people's posts.

 

[Subduction Zone]

2 in my house both gender neutral

One in my small house. I tried to make it not gender neutral. The housemate was not having it.

 

[icehorse]

Your "response" was to dismiss a peer-reviewed study.

Not at all. I pointed out its limitations and suggested that these days it's commonplace for such a study to be a part of a meta-study. I'm sure you know that there is a replication crisis, so across the board we have to avoid placing too much trust in ANY individual study.

 

[Orbit]

Not at all. I pointed out its limitations and suggested that these days it's commonplace for such a study to be a part of a meta-study. I'm sure you know that there is a replication crisis, so across the board we have to avoid placing too much trust in ANY individual study.

And you ignored its conclusions. And you also aren't doing any research, and I don't want to do it for you. A separate study:

"Over the last two years at least 850 children were interviewed, and the number of transgender bathroom assaults was zero."

Stats show assaults don't happen in bathrooms

House Bill 2 has been a political hot potato with strong passions on both sides of the issue.

www.wcnc.com

Yet another study: "
Based on our review of sexual assault complaints in Atlanta, Dallas, Miami Beach, Miami Gardens and Tucson, before and after an official amendment to the human rights ordinance in that locality, we did not find evidence of sexual assaults taking place in which men, under the guise of being women or transgender, entered women’s bathrooms to commit a sexual assault or otherwise victimize women.
Our overall findings are consistent with the research literature on sexual assault, which indicates that victims of sexual assault are primarily female (over 90 percent) and that, in 8 of 10 cases, the assault is not perpetrated by a stranger but rather by a person known to to them."

 

[Revoltingest]

Hey, @icehorse, if trans-women should use the men's
instead of women's lavatory, should trans-men be required
to use the women's room?
Here's what one (former woman), Laith Ashley, looks like...

 

[icehorse]

The insistence on saying "trans men are not men"/"trans women are not men" and then deriving from that an array of harmful positions

I think you have a typo, but I'm sure I understand what you meant. I don't think it's fair to call that an "ideology" unless you're saying my ideology is to trust science. In which case, guilty as charged

such as the idea that trans women in women's bathrooms are inherently more likely to be dangerous than cis women

Ok seriously, I have been accused of that countless times and I have consistently said that I'm making no such claim.

All of this is while refusing to acknowledge or discuss people's points instead of misrepresenting their points and accusing them of vices like "misogyny" and "virtue signaling."

I'm always open to good arguments. But these are serious topics, so I'm suspicious of "but i think-ism" arguments. In a recent thread I had a very good discussion / debate with a newer poster. That discussion gives me hope that good debates are possible here. But having been the target of a constant barrage of fallacy arguments, it's natural for me to draw some conclusions. I think it's more than plausible that a lot of virtue signaling is going on, otherwise people would be able to state their case without resorting to fallacies.

I don't really care about your evaluation of what is or isn't "virtue signaling," "logic," "common sense," or "decency." You have already tried to insinuate that those who don't share your views on trans issues are agreeing with "TRA agendas."

Also, since you keep doing this in many posts: the usage of the emojis like you did above comes across as affected and insincere. It doesn't lend your points any more credibility or make them sound less biased when you present yourself as "sad" over any number of perceived or alleged "problems" with other people's posts.

What I've seen across numerous threads is a high frequency of fallacy arguments. Much higher than normal. I'm open to hearing why you think that might be?

 

[icehorse]

Based on our review of sexual assault complaints in Atlanta, Dallas, Miami Beach, Miami Gardens and Tucson, before and after an official amendment to the human rights ordinance in that locality, we did not find evidence of sexual assaults taking place in which men, under the guise of being women or transgender, entered women’s bathrooms to commit a sexual assault or otherwise victimize women.

How many cases would you like to see? How many would be too many for you?

And you also aren't doing any research, and I don't want to do it for you

your mind reading skills remain poor.

As I've been discussing in my last few posts, I see a large number of fallacy arguments from my opponents in these threads. I would challenge you to try to avoid using fallacies, it could be revealing.