Gender reassignment/affirming surgery

[SkepticThinker]

This kind of craziness.....

Planet Fitness Revokes Membership of Woman Who Videoed Trans Woman in Locker Room

Planet Fitness is facing a backlash from some conservatives after the fitness chain revoked the membership of a woman who took a photo of a naked person in a women's locker room at one of the chain's locations in Fairbanks, Alaska.

www.athleticbusiness.com

Wait, so as an example of the "craziness" we're talking about, you post an article about someone taking a video of someone in a change room that they thought was trans, to demonstrate, what, exactly? That the people on your side of the trans issue are invasive jerks, or ... ?

 

[SkepticThinker]

You don't have a point then.

I put it right under your nose and still didn't see it?

All you have to do is what you've probably been doing your entire life thus far: Refer to people as they've asked to be referred to as. I mean, you haven't check the genitals of every person you've ever met before deciding whether you'll call them what they've asked to be called, right?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Wait, so as an example of the "craziness" we're talking about, you post an article about someone taking a video of someone in a change room that they thought was trans, to demonstrate, what, exactly? That the people on your side of the trans issue are invasive jerks, or ... ?

You don't actually read articles do you?

 

[Ignatius A]

What's a fact?

Sure thing, Sally.

If you're intentionally misgendering people, I'd have to say yes.

Has someone actually flied off the handle with you, or is this just some hypothetical based on your feelings?

Everything I say

Dont be mad because im beautiful and you're ...

That should matter to me what you say, right?

The only feelings I care less about than my own are yours. I was in a restaurant when a man in a dress flew off the handle at a waitress. So I guess the waitress was supposed to ignore that he was a man and should have noticed he was wearing a dress even though dresses are part of the social construct of being a woman which doesn't prove someone is a woman so the idiot yelled at her for not calling him her.

 

[Ignatius A]

Imagine that - human identity and especially personal identity is complicated! Who knew? It's only been complicated since humanity has existed, right?

If it's complicated we've complicated it. We've turned gender into a Rube Goldberg.

 

[Ignatius A]

You don't actually read articles do you?

Especially not anything that might disagree with their narrative.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I went looking to find how many genders are now recognized. The link below shows a very modest 8 but we know there are many more. The article admits that and goes on to say:

"There are many more gender identities then we’ve listed. Gender can be complex and people are defining themselves in new and different ways as we gain a deeper understanding of identities. "

That statement might even suggest there could be as many genders as there are people who identify themselves as whatever gender they claim to be. So my question is when people go for gender reassignment/confirming surgery could someone choose zuch surgery to become, Two Spirit?

Gender Identity

Gender identity is how a person feels and who they know them self to be when it comes to their gender. There are more than two genders, even though in our society the genders that are most recognized are male and female (called the gender binary) and usually is based on someone’s anatomy (the...

teentalk.ca

These issues don't personally affect me, but after following the arguments and conflicts over the past decades I have developed a zoomed out view of this and other related issues. It is reasonable to review how Christian society treats people who are gay and people who think they are a different gender. It doesn't mean abandoning Christianity or abandoning the goals of Christ. "Give pain killers to those who are suffering" is how I interpret Proverbs 31:6 though its really about not getting high when you have a responsibility to perform. These people are hurting, and that is enough to cut them some slack.

Obviously there are political extremes. Those have to be reigned in, but extremes are how policy finds its way. Our society once had an extreme in which we punished homosexuals. That was an extreme, and we learned it was an extreme so that we could avoid that extreme.

Some people need special care, and we don't always know what to do. Its always going to be complicated. Its never going to be simple.

Circling back to your question about the 8 or the myriad genders: I don't think it affects me a lot. I think that we need to reign in some of the political extremes. I don't think we are going to lose our sense of what sex is or that people are going to stop being men and women, no matter what certain feminist movements (they aren't all the same) today may think. I don't think gender can be changed by society or reconstructed, but our understanding can be. Things are what they are, so lets be gracious. Perhaps someone can be treated with respect even if they don't perfectly conform to how we understand things. If political extremes result then its so that we can identify those and avoid them in the future.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You don't actually read articles do you?

Yep, I do. Did you?

"Planet Fitness is facing a backlash from some conservatives after the fitness chain revoked the membership of a woman who took a photo of a naked person in a women's locker room at one of the chain's locations in Fairbanks, Alaska.

The woman, Patricia Silva, narrated the video, saying the person who identified as "queer LBG" was shaving in the female locker room.

Planet Fitness confirmed to Fox News that the woman who shot the video had her membership revoked for violating a policy that prohibits taking photos and/or video in the locker room.

“As the home of the Judgement Free Zone, Planet Fitness is committed to creating an inclusive environment,” Planet Fitness chief corporate affairs officer McCall Gosselin said in a statement to Fox News Digital. “Our gender identity non-discrimination policy, states that members and guests may use the gym facilities that best align with their sincere, self-reported gender identity. The member who posted on social media violated our mobile device policy that prohibits taking photos of individuals in the locker room, which resulted in their membership being terminated.”

Patricia Silva said she went to the gym on Monday and saw “a man with a penis” shaving in the women’s locker room."


You've given me an example of a person invading another's privacy and filming them in a changing room and posting it online, as an example of trans "craziness." The trans person was just minding their own business doing what people do in change rooms. The other person is invading their privacy and sharing it online and you think the trans person is in the wrong here? Am I getting that right?

So a cis person invades the privacy of a trans person, takes videos and posts them online, and you think this is an example of trans "craziness" because .... ?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Especially not anything that might disagree with their narrative.

Clearly you nor the other poster actually read the article. LOL

 

[SkepticThinker]

Everything I say

Dont be mad because im beautiful and you're ...

That should matter to me what you say, right?

The only feelings I care less about than my own are yours.

Sure thing Sally.

I was in a restaurant when a man in a dress flew off the handle at a waitress. So I guess the waitress was supposed to ignore that he was a man and should have noticed he was wearing a dress even though dresses are part of the social construct of being a woman which doesn't prove someone is a woman so the idiot yelled at her for not calling him her.

What does "fly off the handle mean?"

So you supposedly experienced one trans person flying off the handle in a restaurant. Not too many details to go on either. Does that mean you believe this is indicative of a widespread trend/problem, or maybe just an anecdote?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Clearly you nor the other poster actually read the article. LOL

Clearly you ignore the point of what went on as the article describes. Lol

 

[Ignatius A]

These issues don't personally affect me, but after following the arguments and conflicts over the past decades I have developed a zoomed out view of this and other related issues. It is reasonable to review how Christian society treats people who are gay and people who think they are a different gender. It doesn't mean abandoning Christianity or abandoning the goals of Christ. "Give pain killers to those who are suffering" is how I interpret Proverbs 31:6 though its really about not getting high when you have a responsibility to perform. These people are hurting, and that is enough to cut them some slack.

Obviously there are political extremes. Those have to be reigned in, but extremes are how policy finds its way. Our society once had an extreme in which we punished homosexuals. That was an extreme, and we learned it was an extreme so that we could avoid that extreme.

Some people need special care, and we don't always know what to do. Its always going to be complicated. Its never going to be simple.

Circling back to your question about the 8 or the myriad genders: I don't think it affects me a lot. I think that we need to reign in some of the political extremes. I don't think we are going to lose our sense of what sex is or that people are going to stop being men and women, no matter what certain feminist movements (they aren't all the same) today may think. I don't think gender can be changed by society or reconstructed, but our understanding can be. Things are what they are, so lets be gracious. Perhaps someone can be treated with respect even if they don't perfectly conform to how we understand things. If political extremes result then its so that we can identify those and avoid them in the future.

Let me ask you a question, what's the "extreme" you see on the gender fluid side of the discussion?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Clearly you ignore the point of what went on as the article describes. Lol

It seems you're having a hard time spelling it out. Go on, let's hear it.

You've just accused me of not reading the article. I actually did read the article. Now you've got a new accusation.
How about showing me that you read the article and explain what your point is.

 

[Ignatius A]

What does "fly off the handle mean?"

So you supposedly experienced one trans person flying off the handle in a restaurant. Not too many details to go on either. Does that mean you believe this is indicative of a widespread trend/problem, or maybe just an anecdote?

It depends but if you have to yell at someone for a mistake then you've flown off the handle and should be ignored.

Its irrelevant. I didnt mention widespread you did. Let's see if a second reading helps you. I'm suspicious. A person who was clearly a man wearing a dress flew off the handle at a waitress for calling him sir. Now apparently dresses are part of the social construct of womanhood are they not? So his obviously being a man is not an indication he is man and his wearing a dress is not an indication he is a woman so whe the waitress took her shot and said "sir" the person in thr dress was entirely justified in acting like an idiot.

 

[Ignatius A]

Clearly you nor the other poster actually read the article. LOL

I wasnt referencing a specific article. It would help if you could keep up.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Let me ask you a question, what's the "extreme" you see on the gender fluid side of the discussion?

Already we have seen governments do gender surgery and puberty blocking on too many youths and have now decided it is premature, that they feel it is in extremis. They have to be more careful. NHS has temporarily blocked it with the caveat that they are open to any new data they receive.

Its not on a gender fluid side. This is all a reaction to a previous extreme: suppression of information and suppression of freedoms. The public sector goes between extremes until it settles upon a middle, and this takes a long time.

Another example is USA's experiment with prohibition of alcohol. It didn't work. It was an extreme. We didn't know it would be an extreme until we experienced it. Now we regulate alcohol but don't outlaw it.

 

[Quintessence]

If it's complicated we've complicated it. We've turned gender into a Rube Goldberg.

Yes and no.

While it is true some humans prefer to simplify reality into either-or boxes, reality itself is rarely so binary. Neither sex and gender are simplistic binaries. A given human can choose to acknowledge this and choose to grapple with that complexity or dumb things down for themselves.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It depends but if you have to yell at someone for a mistake then you've flown off the handle and should be ignored.

So "Flying off the handle" means they yelled? What did they yell? What series of events led to the yelling? Did you hear the entire conversation?

Its irrelevant.

What's irrelevant?

I didnt mention widespread you did.

If it's not a widespread problem, and instead it's just a one-off event, then what's the actual problem you're trying to draw our attention to by claiming that trans people fly off the handle when misgendered? You actually just meant one trans person flew off the handle once? Big deal. I could show you videos of Karens flying off the handle about everything under the sun. So what?

Let's see if a second reading helps you. I'm suspicious.
A person who was clearly a man wearing a dress flew off the handle at a waitress for calling him sir. Now apparently dresses are part of the social construct of womanhood are they not? So his obviously being a man is not an indication he is man and his wearing a dress is not an indication he is a woman so whe the waitress took her shot and said "sir" the person in thr dress was entirely justified in acting like an idiot.

This is just repeating what you've already said. Thanks anyway. I've already responded. Try addressing the content of my response.

Here I'll simplify it:
What's your point with this anecdote, if it isn't that this is a widespread problem?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I wasnt referencing a specific article. It would help if you could keep up.

You implied I didn't read the article the other poster posted by responding to his assumption that I didn't read the article with: "Especially not anything that might disagree with their narrative."

 

[Ignatius A]

Yes and no.

While it is true some humans prefer to simplify reality into either-or boxes, reality itself is rarely so binary. Neither sex and gender are simplistic binaries. A given human can choose to acknowledge this and choose to grapple with that complexity or dumb things down for themselves.

Sex and gender are binary but how one experiences them may not be. The problem is the realities are destroyed to make room for delusions. If you're a man but you think you're a chicken good for you. It doesn't make you a chicken though.