Gender reassignment/affirming surgery

[Ignatius A]

You implied I didn't read the article the other poster posted by responding to his assumption that I didn't read the article with: "Especially not anything that might disagree with their narrative."

It doesn't imply that in the least except in your head. Whats in your head means nothing to me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It doesn't imply that in the least except in your head. Whats in your head means nothing to me.

You should pay better attention to the posts you're responding to them, because you absolutely did.

You must a riot at parties. I imagine you running around telling everyone how much their feelings don't matter to you, as you frantically express your own feelings to everyone present.

 

[Ignatius A]

You should pay better attention to the posts you're responding to them, because you absolutely did.

You must a riot at parties. I imagine you running around telling everyone how much their feelings don't matter to you, as you frantically express your own feelings to everyone present.

So a man wears a dress because he thinks he's a woman even though dresses are part of the social construct of womanhood yet when he isnt called a she, because he's clearly a man, he flies off the handle.

I'm actually am fun at parties because unlike people like you I'm not offended by everything others say and do. Back in the day we used to call people like you a buzz kill.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So a man wears a dress because he thinks he's a woman even though dresses are part of the social construct of womanhood yet when he isnt called a she, because he's clearly a man, he flies off the handle.

You're just repeating yourself now.

I'm actually am fun at parties because unlike people like you I'm not offended by everything others say and do. Back in the day we used to call people like you a buzz kill.

You have no idea in the world what offends me and what doesn't. I'm married to a comedian, there isn't much that will offend me.

The person that seems most offended in this thread is ... you.

 

[McBell]

Clearly you ignore the point of what went on as the article describes. Lol

The point of the article, near as I could tell, is that a member blatantly violates the clubs policy and was ejected from the club because of it.

Now if that is not the point you were attempting to convey from posting the article, you will have to spell out the point you thought merely presenting an article with no explanation was supposed to present for you.

Thus far it appears you posted a link to a completely different article than the one you thought.

 

[Ignatius A]

You're just repeating yourself now.

You have no idea in the world what offends me and what doesn't. I'm married to a comedian, there isn't much that will offend me.

The person that seems most offended in this thread is ... you.

Yeah truth has a way of doing that.

I bet you are

If only you were the arbiter of truth.

 

[Quintessence]

Sex and gender are binary but how one experiences them may not be.

No, neither sex and gender are simplistic binaries. They're an assortment of many characteristics that exist along a spectrum, which means that while you can dumb things down and just make two boxes and sharp cutoffs, that doesn't reflect the actual reality of what's going on any more than saying there are two colors (red and blue) and this accurately reflects the reality of the electromagnetic spectrum.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Well deserved. Natural women have spoken.

Planet Fitness stock plummets after woman’s membership canceled for taking picture of ‘man in women’s locker room shaving’

Planet Fitness saw the valuation of the company’s stock drop this week after an Alaska gym canceled a woman’s membership when she photographed a male using the women’s locker room…

nypost.com

Planet Fitness deserves to go bankrupt.

 

[McBell]

Well deserved. Natural women have spoken.

Planet Fitness stock plummets after woman’s membership canceled for taking picture of ‘man in women’s locker room shaving’

Planet Fitness saw the valuation of the company’s stock drop this week after an Alaska gym canceled a woman’s membership when she photographed a male using the women’s locker room…

nypost.com

Planet Fitness deserves to go bankrupt.

well looksie there, it is back up 3.43% at close today....

 

[McBell]

Apparently it is acceptable at Planet Fitness...

So tell me, is it acceptable to film people in the shower room and post the video on social media?
I mean, that is what she was ejected for...

What is the membership status of the person whose shower room visit was slapped all over social media?
Does anyone know?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No but wild eyed trans people expect we are supposed to know their gender and if you don't they go insane.

You keep saying this as if it's a universal truth. It isn't. Like I have said, the vast majority of trans people won't "go insane", and I am also certain that there is a significant number of non-trans people who would "go insane" if you misgender them too. I fail to see why you think pointing out that a minority of trans people may overreact to being accidentally misgendered is any more significant a problem than anyone else overreacting about anything.

I don't care what people call me.

Yes you do. I guarantee you would get very upset if someone kept referring to you as "her". You can pretend you wouldn't, but we both know you would.

Other people don't determine who or what I am. I also dont change to make other people think differently of me.

But you have a reasonable expectation for people to refer to you accurately, like using your name and pronouns.

They bare bonkers. Id call them freaks regardless of their "preferred" pronouns

And the transphobia spills out. Wonderful. I thought I was just politely and emotionlessly answering your honest queries about sex, gender and trans people, and here you are - apropos of nothing - calling them "freaks".

Good to know my efforts were completely wasted. Clearly "going bonkers" is not unique to the trans community.

but I don't because I'm a decent person

How kind of you to merely quietly THINK of someone as a freak rather than outright saying it to their face. What perfectly normal behaviour.

In other news, people also think that black people are scum who don't belong in America, but because they don't SAY that to their face that makes them totally decent people. Right?

but I won't be admonished for looking at someone who is obviously a man but wearing a dress and calling them "he".

That depends on them. They could just be a man in a dress, that is a thing that happens. But why not just ask if you're unsure?

Dresses don't make you a woman right?

Right.

Just like a vagina doest make you a woman either, right?

Right.

But somehow I'm supposed to know someone is one of 334 different genders.

No, you're just supposed to ask instead of presuming. Nobody expects you to be psychic, and the vast majority of trans people are perfectly understanding if you call them the wrong gender at first. And if you're ever unsure enough to the extent that you don't know, it's always far more polite to ask than to presume.

Sorry I'm not playing.

It's not a game. Only absolute egotists would presume that other people's preferences are somehow an attempt to deliberately inconvenience them.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Truth is truth. Sorry you don't like it.

Except it isn't true.

Only care about your preferences when you try to make them my preferences.

Nobody is making them YOUR preferences. They're just asking you to respect THEIR preferences.

I have yet to hear a coherent argument for why *EDITED* preferences should be supercede anyone else's preferences.

Nobody's preferences are being superceded by respecting other people's preferences. The only way you "supercede" someone else's preference is if YOU refer to THEM based on YOUR preferences, not theirs. Which is exactly what misgendering is.

Please don't waste everyone time with the politeness nonsense.

I've never said it's exclusively about politeness. Though I am willing to bet you'd find it less than "polite" for someone to keep insisting you're a girl.

Is that or is that not correct?

 

[Ignatius A]

Except it isn't true.


Nobody is make them YOUR preferences. They're just asking you to respect THEIR preferences.


Nobody's preferences are being superceded. The only way you "supercede" someone else's preference is if YOU refer to THEM based on YOUR preferences, not theirs. Which is exactly what misgendering is.


I've never said it's exclusively about politeness. Though I am willing to bet you'd find it less than "polite" for someone to keep insisting you're a girl.

Is that or is that not correct?

But it is true.

Yeah transgender believe their preferences should supercede others.

First I dont control what others call me. Since I know that I dont pay much attention to it. Also whatever people call me has nothing to do with who or what I actually am.

 

[icehorse]

Calling people the name they want to be called is "craziness" that "needs to be stopped?"
What's crazy about it?

Nobody ever responds to his point, so I'll pose it to you:
All you have to do is what you've probably been doing your entire life thus far: Refer to people as they've asked to be referred to as. I mean, you haven't check the genitals of every person you've ever met before deciding whether you'll call them what they've asked to be called, right?

It seems clear that we're all tacitly agreeing that language is very powerful.

That said, language is community property, it's not up to a few individuals to attempt to forcibly change it using coercion. There are at least two situations to consider:

1 - A peaceful trans person who just wants to live their life.
2 - Trans activists who want to warp reality, create made up hate crime laws, and ruin the lives of people who don't knuckle under to their demands.

Sadly, people in category 1 are being negatively affected by people in category 2.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

But it is true.

I've explained how it isn't multiple times. You haven't got an argument other than "I have seen videos".

Yeah *EDITED* believe their preferences should supercede others.

Based on your presumably zero interactions with them?

First I dont control what others call me.

I am willing to bet that if I kept calling you a girls name you'd want to "control" it very much. You'd probably want to "control" me right in the face.

Since I know that I dont pay much attention to it. Also whatever people call me has nothing to do with who or what I actually am.

Yes it does, hence why you'd become upset if I called you names or misgendered you. And don't say you wouldn't, because the emotion you're displaying here at the mere idea that trans people prefer to be called certain things is a pretty clear demonstration of just how emotionally attached you are to what gender means to you.

But that's okay. The world is wide. There's room for you and trans people on it. Ain't no one man gonna stop this world a-spinning.

 

[Ignatius A]

I've explained how it isn't multiple times. You haven't got an argument other than "I have seen videos".


Based on your presumably zero interactions with them?


I am willing to bet that if I kept calling you a girls name you'd want to "control" it very much.


Yes it does, hence why you'd become upset if I called you names or misgendered you. And don't say you wouldn't, because the emotion you're displaying here at the mere idea that trans people prefer to be called certain things is a pretty clear demonstration of just how emotionally attached you are to what gender means to you.

But that's okay. The world is wide. There's room for you and trans people on it. Ain't no one man gonna stop this world a-spinning.

Truth is truth. It's not my fault you dont like it.

If I was upset that you "misgendered" who cares? My life doesnt revolve around what you call me. What can't you comprehend about that? I guess I could sit around and whine and complain about it like so many people seem to do but why should I? My crying because you "misgendered" me doesnt pay the bills.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Truth is truth.

You keep asserting this, despite the fact I've disproven it.

If I was upset that you "misgendered" who cares? My life doesnt revolve around what you call me. What can't you comprehend about that? I guess I could sit around and whine and complain about it like so many people seem to do but why should I? My crying because you "misgendered" me doesnt pay the bills.

I agree. Doesn't change the fact that me doing it is rude, abrasive, and likely to result in you getting angry or upset with me.

You're clearly a very emotional person. I should show more consideration for your feelings.

 

[Ignatius A]

You keep asserting this, despite the fact I've disproven it.


I agree. Doesn't change the fact that me doing it is rude, abrasive, and likely to result in you getting angry or upset with me.

You're clearly a very emotional person. I should show more consideration for your feelings.

You keep asserting this, despite the fact I've disproven it.


I agree. Doesn't change the fact that me doing it is rude, abrasive, and likely to result in you getting angry or upset with me.

You're clearly a very emotional person. I should show more consideration for your feelings.

But you haven't.

Your rudeness is your problem my anger is my problem. Since I don't care about your rudeness and my anger is useless in this regard I have to make my life what I need it to be. If words are what offend me then I have much bigger problems on my hands than your rudeness.

You can do whatever you like. There are benefits and losses associated with those choices. You're clearly a weak person but I have no consideration for your weaknesses because it's not my problem.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

But you haven't.

I've explained it repeatedly. The evidence of your claim is "I've seen videos". My evidence is "I know a lot of trans people, and they aren't like that". It's pretty obvious who here has the better grasp of reality, especially considering this started out as you asking a series of (I thought, at the time, sincere) questions about gender, sex and trans people, then me (again, perfectly sincerely and without any provocation, condescension or lack of civility) answering your questions. And yet, all it took was me answering your questions long enough for you to start referring to trans people as freaks, demonstrating that all it really takes for you to suddenly become angry and hateful is people answering the questions you ask. It seems to me that you are the one getting agitated over nothing. It's pretty clear that you seem to be the one easily upset and prone to explosive anger here.

Your rudeness is your problem my anger is my problem. Since I don't care about your rudeness and my anger is useless in this regard I have to make my life what I need it to be. If words are what offend me then I have much bigger problems on my hands than your rudeness.

So you are literally claiming you wouldn't be rightfully upset about someone being deliberately rude to you?

You can do whatever you like. There are benefits and losses associated with those choices. You're clearly a weak person but I have no consideration for your weaknesses because it's not my problem.

This is just jibberish. You understand perfectly well that there is moral weight in how we treat each other. You would never use this kind of pseudo-intellectual post-hoc justification to dismiss someone keying your car, or spitting in your face, or doing anything else deliberately disrepsectful to you. You understand that actions have consequences.

 

[wellwisher]

Why would someone need to alter their body if gender is a socially constructed? Claiming they alter their bodies to "... confirm with their personal idea of how they wish their identity (gender or otherwise) be expressed, just as with all forms of cosmetic surgery." seems to suggest their are physical indicators of gender. If not why would they have to alter them? If gender is simple how one identifies why alter anything?

Altering is for show. It is the same reason the actor wears a costume, when on stage. The costume helps sell the character via the setting of the play, to prevent the audience from not paying attention to the dialog and special effects. They will notice if the actor dressed in a 1720's costume was wearing track shoes. Off the stage, the person under the actor's mask, does not need the makeup. But trans seems to think they always need to always be in costume. When actors do that, they end up in the funny farm or on drugs.

What is interesting is gay and lesbian, who internally are no different from trans; have a desire for the same biological sex, do not require major surgery to be who they are. They may dress up, cross sexually, but in intimate situation, they can be themselves without a permanent costume.

We live in an entertainment based culture where entertainment is put on a pedestal; highest paid and most likes combined. Trans appears to be following the path of fame, becoming a permanent stereo type; type cast and always in character for internet tours.