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Gender reassignment/affirming surgery

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
Thanks but it doesnt really answer the question does it? What you call yourself isnt really of much interest to me other than to say if someone identifies as one of the many genders that supposedly exists, why's does surgery entail to help a person express that gender. I used "two spirits" as an example. What happens in "two spirit" surgery?
Most trans folk don't need genitial surgery to express it. It's to allieve gender dysphoria usually in contexts like sexual ones or just so the person can stand to look at their body when naked.

I could answer this with more detail but the answer may not be suitable for the forum as the public forum is supposed to be PG13.

The big thing with gender affirmation surgery is ones not related to genitals are usually more useful in day to day life with gender affirmation regarding being gendered correctly like facial or Adam Apple surgery.
 

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
Most trans folk don't need genitial surgery to express it. It's to allieve gender dysphoria usually in contexts like sexual ones or just so the person can stand to look at their body when naked.

I could answer this with more detail but the answer may not be suitable for the forum as the public forum is supposed to be PG13.

The big thing with gender affirmation surgery is ones not related to genitals are usually more useful in day to day life with gender affirmation regarding being gendered correctly like facial or Adam Apple surgery.
So people who weigh 85 lbs should be put on a diet if they see their naked body as fat?
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
So people who weigh 85 lbs should be put on a diet if they see their naked body as fat?
Where did i say that?no where.

Is it? How so?
First here where i live you have to be on hormones for a year then you have to have a note from a doctor and a therapist to get bottom surgery at least if you are AFAB that is assigned female at birth...

You'd also have to decide on what kind of surgery would be best for alleviating gender dysphoria.


It's not a small thing and isn't done lightly. Not only that but recovery is long and painful in most cases.

Edit: also I pointed out its not just genitial surgeries that can be done for affirmation in fact they might do very little to alleviate social and physical dysphoria no body sees them. You got vocal cord surgeries, Adam apples, facial reconstruction, body modification, beard and hair implants etc
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Because people have conceptions about how you are supposed to look in order to fit certain social categories, and these ideas are impressed upon people from a very young age. For example, the idea that to be seen as a women you must look feminine, to be seen as a man you must look masculine, etc.
A good deal of it isn't social though. Male and female faces, for example, look different and it's not just because of makeup.
People who go through a medical transition take hormones to help be more comfortable looking at themselves in a mirror. This is because some differences are biological. Like the innate biological drive most of us have to gravitate towards things normally considered male or female.
 
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VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
A good deal of it isn't social though. Male and female faces, for example, look different and it's not just because of makeup.
People who go through a medical transition take to help be more comfortable looking at themselves in a mirror. This is because some differences are biological. Like the innate biological drive most of us have to gravitate towards things normally considered male or female.
This i agree with. Gender seems to have both biological and social aspects. You worded this better. I don't have problems with dysphoria with genitals except in a few circumstances and what dysphoria I feel often can be alleviated or can't be solved with surgery. I do with my chest but that fluctuates and changes since my gender is fluid so surgery wouldn't solve that. I tried to answer with the idea in mind surgery not just genitial but surgery in general is needed for many trans folk to live full lives.

Hopefully my answer was ok but I view my transgender identity through the lens of euphoria rather then dysphoria more often then I do dysphoria. Sure I have dysphoria at times but it's not as crippling as many people with dysphoria tho it can get really intense at times.

Most trans folk don't need genitial surgery to express it. It's to allieve gender dysphoria usually in contexts like sexual ones or just so the person can stand to look at their body when naked.

I could answer this with more detail but the answer may not be suitable for the forum as the public forum is supposed to be PG13.

The big thing with gender affirmation surgery is ones not related to genitals are usually more useful in day to day life with gender affirmation regarding being gendered correctly like facial or Adam Apple surgery.

I feel I couldve worded this better but from what i can tell from most trans folk i talk genital surgery is not as important as say hormones or facial surgery for many trans folk at least in terms of being gendered correctly. Not in terms of physical dysphoria which for some not all trans folk genital surgery would be more important.

I feel its important to clarify all this for the OP @Ignatius A
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
No, partly because you don't use surgery to become a gender; gender is a socially constructed label. People can simply alter their bodies to conform with their personal idea of how they wish their identity (gender or otherwise) be expressed, just as with all forms of cosmetic surgery.
As a transsexual man, I don't view myself being a man as a social construct and my seeking medical intervention as a form of body modification ("cosmetic surgery"). The notion is fairly offensive to me. I know the difference between medicine and cosmetic surgery. One big difference is that the former is covered by insurance but the latter isn't. I transitioned in order to alleviate dysphoria, which is an actual medical disorder. It had nothing to do with society and upbringing. Transsexualism is a medical condition,.and has biological aspects.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
You clearly know how to operate a computer.
And...?

It's amazing how you get to determine what I can call myself but I can't call a man in a dress a man.
No, you can call a man in a dress a man. Obviously.

This is why I have little regard for this kind of thing. This isn't about some lofty ideal it's just low-level identity politics.
You have literally no idea what identity politics is if you think this is an example of it. I'll give you a lesson for free: calling people by the pronouns and names that they actually use is not "identity politics". That's literally just "acknowledging they have an identity".

I guess calling you by your name is "identity politics", too?
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
A good deal of it isn't social though. Male and female faces, for example, look different and it's not just because of makeup.
People who go through a medical transition take hormones to help be more comfortable looking at themselves in a mirror. This is because some differences are biological. Like the innate biological drive most of us have to gravitate towards things normally considered male or female.
I was responding specifically to the question of why someone would feel the need to medically transition if gender is a social construct. I'm explaining how a social construct can influence people's decisions about their physical appearance. Like I said, I'm speaking broadly and sociologically, so I can't really account for every individual instance of why a certain person desires to look a certain way - I can only say that there are sociological factors that can influence these things to a degree.

The aim should never be to assume "so and so person has made themselves look this way because of social pressure", but to alleviate the social pressure enough that "so and so looks this way because it's the way they want themselves to look". This is why I'm a gender abolitionist. I want people to not be influenced by social factors, or feel that they HAVE to appear a particular way, in order to be accepted for who they are.

To use the unfortunate analogy that has been used elsewhere in this thread, I want people to be able to accept that sometimes a man in a dress is just a man in a dress, not necessarily a trans woman. Of course, as long as we live in a society in which these ideas of codes and standards are endemic, it's extremely difficult to extricate "wears dresses and makeup" from signifying "being feminine" or "a woman", but I would hope it's not impossible.
 
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ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
As a transsexual man, I don't view myself being a man as a social construct and my seeking medical intervention as a form of body modification ("cosmetic surgery"). The notion is fairly offensive to me. I know the difference between medicine and cosmetic surgery. One big difference is that the former is covered by insurance but the latter isn't. I transitioned in order to alleviate dysphoria, which is an actual medical disorder. It had nothing to do with society and upbringing. Transsexualism is a medical condition,.and has biological aspects.
That's fine, and I don't believe I said anything to contradict that; I think there is a difference between transgenderism and transexualism, though the difference is often contextual. My answer was specifically referring to GENDER, not sex. The question I was asked was how something that is a social construct can result in people feeling they need to medically transition. That doesn't mean that all medical transition is a result of a social construct, or that all transition is the same. And I didn't say that medical transition WAS akin to cosmetic surgery - I simply said that it is a tool like cosmetic surgery that people use to look a particular way. Not all trans people experience gender dysphoria, and not all transition is necessarily medical.

I'm talking broadly, encompassing not just medical transition or people with gender dysphoria (which includes people who aren't trans as well) but all trans people collectively. Your body is not a social construct, but the ways in which we express our gender socially is, and you can't really get around that, nor can you get around the fact that your idea of what it means to BE and the EXPRESS your gender has - at least partially - been shaped by social factors. The trouble in the OP is that they fail to make this distinction, and seem to imply that to be trans means to medically or surgically transition, which is simply false.
 
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Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
And...?


No, you can call a man in a dress a man. Obviously.


You have literally no idea what identity politics is if you think this is an example of it. I'll give you a lesson for free: calling people by the pronouns and names that they actually use is not "identity politics". That's literally just "acknowledging they have an identity".

I guess calling you by your name is "identity politics", too?
I can by why should i or anyone be the target of their whiny abuse?

I disagree with you so I have no idea. LOL

Your game your rules. I just play by them but I notice people don't seem to like the rules when it doesn't get them what they want. Remember my pronouns are Lord and Master. Dont be impolite and disrespect and not refer to me that way. It's not hard to be civil.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I can by why should i or anyone be the target of their whiny abuse?
What "whiny abuse"? The only whiny and abusive behaviour in this thread has been coming from you.

Your game your rules.
Not a game.

I just play by them but I notice people don't seem to like the rules when it doesn't get them what they want. Remember my pronouns are Lord and Master.
Those aren't pronouns. Do you not know what pronouns are?

Dont be impolite and disrespect and not refer to me that way. It's not hard to be civil.
If you're just going to repeat argument I've already refuted, what's the point of me continuing to educate you?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
But it is true.

Yeah trannys believe their preferences should supercede others.
You've provided nothing which would indicate that.
What you have provided is evidence that you think your feelings and preferences should supersede all others.
First I dont control what others call me. Since I know that I dont pay much attention to it. Also whatever people call me has nothing to do with who or what I actually am.
Sure thing, Sally.
 

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
You thought that was the behaviour in the article that was unacceptable? The person quietly minding their own business was the unacceptable part?
Not the part where someone filmed someone in a change room and then posted it all over the internet?
That part is totally acceptable?

This crap is out of control, alright. Good grief.
So what you think is unacceptable is more valid than what someone else thinks is unacceptable. Why should anyone's mother or daughter who are real woman share a shower area with a man?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Truth is truth. It's not my fault you dont like it.

If I was upset that you "misgendered" who cares? My life doesnt revolve around what you call me. What can't you comprehend about that? I guess I could sit around and whine and complain about it like so many people seem to do but why should I? My crying because you "misgendered" me doesnt pay the bills.
You've certainly done a lot of whining and complaining about it here.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I can by why should i or anyone be the target of their whiny abuse?
What whiny abuse? You keep claiming this over and over but have produced nothing to demonstrate it.

Or did you mean the whiny abuse you've displayed in this thread?
I disagree with you so I have no idea. LOL

Your game your rules. I just play by them but I notice people don't seem to like the rules when it doesn't get them what they want. Remember my pronouns are Lord and Master. Dont be impolite and disrespect and not refer to me that way. It's not hard to be civil.
That isn't a pronoun, as the other poster has pointed out to you twice now.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
So what you think is unacceptable is more valid than what someone else thinks is unacceptable. Why should anyone's mother or daughter who are real woman share a shower area with a man?
Instead of trying to put words into my mouth, try answering the questions and addressing the content of my post instead.
 
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