Genesis 1:26

[TrueBeliever37]

I'm not sure if you misunderstood me or if I'm misunderstanding you.
I didn't mean to say that there's one name that includes all these things. These are various names that speak about various qualities of G-d. Many if not most Biblical names are like this, expressing qualities of G-d. They didn't randomly pick names, these are names that express the hopes or expectations of the one naming.

Solomon for instance, was called Solomon (peace) by his father, Jedidiah (friend of G-d) by Nathan the Prophet and he called himself Koheleth (one who gathers [wisdom]). Jewish sources also relate another three names to him.

In the verse from Isaiah 9:5, because there was peace in the Judean kingdom - especially during those trying times - his reign expressed these qualities. The prophet is simply doing the same thing Nathan did.

I understand you. I just meant we have a case for one particular son, that would have all these things said about him. So it appears to be more than just a name he would be given.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Proper context has everything to do with using the verse(s) in harmony with the surrounding text(s).
It is not useless because of the length of time.
One can even use an entire book as the context... where the previous chapter(s) help one to understand a verse, or a number of verses.
For example, Isaiah 14:8-20...
We go all the way back to Chapter 13 of Isaiah, to get a correct understanding, and application of the verses.


That one God is the spirit dwelling in the Messiah?
I don't understand that? That does not scripturally answer the question, and I can make any connection of it with the question.
Can you give an answer that doesn't require me trying to get in your mind, but rather an answer I can look in the Bible, and understand?

Recall that you are making the argument that there is only one God - meaning (if I understand you correctly) that Jesus is God, and the father is God, and must be the same, because they can't be two Gods.

Yet the scriptures say that the father is Jesus' God.
Jesus himself said that He also said, the father is the only true God.
He also said many other things like this.
For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to do judging, because he is the Son of man.
I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me. (John 5:26-30)

So my question is, if Jesus is the one and only true God, how could he claim that the father is his God, the one and only true God?
You do understand what it means to have a God, don't you?

Telling me the above, is no help to your argument.
God's spirit also dwells in his followers. It does not make them God.
Jesus even prayed that they be in them - the father and son.
John 17:21
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.


This was answered. Remember?

The simple fact is Thomas called him his God. John 20:28 That is what it says in the scripture.

The Father was the Spirit of God dwelling in the Messiah. Colossians 2:8 For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead (deity) bodily.

The Messiah said the Father that dwelleth in me, he does the works. John 14:10

The Father is the only God. 1 Corinthians 8:6
The only God is a Spirit. John 4:24
There is only one Spirit Ephesians 4:4
The Holy Spirit is the Father Matthew 1:18-20 (she was found with child of the Holy Spirit - that means the Holy Spirit is the Father of that fleshly body)

The scripture says that YHWH is the God of all flesh. So the eternal Spirit is the God of that flesh also.

As I said before the confusion is because people don't see the distinction between the flesh and the Spirit. They think it is talking about two different persons. But God didn't have blood to shed, so he made himself a body to dwell in and sacrifice for man's sin. That body was a human fleshly body that could feel pain, shed blood, and die. God called the body his Son, but it wasn't another person. It was his body, that he would dwell in. So when someone was looking at the Messiah, they were seeing the Father - because the Father was the one dwelling in that body. That body was the image the invisible God took on. The Father is the eternal Spirit, and the Son is the fleshly body he took on. The flesh would pray to the Spirit, but it wasn't one person talking to another person, it was the weak flesh crying out to the Spirit for strength. But Father and Son is still just a distinction between the flesh and the Spirit, not two different persons.

When he said the son can do nothing of himself - he was saying the flesh couldn't do anything. He said it was the Father (the eternal Spirit) dwelling in him that did the works. When he said Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up - it was the eternal Spirit speaking. The Father was the one dwelling in that body and saying he would raise it up.

I couldn't understand all your answers. Maybe it's this format. It is difficult to say things back and forth without being misunderstood.

#1 How did YHWH create all things alone and by himself, if someone else was there and did it for him? Please explain a little better.

#3 Yes, the Messiah did answer them about showing them the Father, and he said - Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me? He that has seen me has seen the Father. He was telling them they were seeing the Father.

#4 If he was not God, how could the Messiah say he would raise up his own body? If he was just a man he couldn't raise himself from the dead.

#5 Once that fleshly body was glorified, the Messiah said that he had all power in heaven and in earth. If you have all power, you are the almighty. Besides there is only one God, so it makes no difference if it says mighty in one place and almighty in another place. It is still the same One and only God.

#6. John the Baptist was the voice in the wilderness, and John was supposed to prepare the way for YHWH. So the Messiah had to be YHWH dwelling in a fleshly body.

 

[Muffled]

But if you say person "A" is WITH person "B" you are talking about two people. The Word was WITH God. Two persons but together they make one God.

I believe it does not say persons. It says: "Word" and "God." Both of those terms can refer to the same person. It only becomes two persons when the Word becomes flesh.

 

[Muffled]

Well my Heavenly Father is not Jesus. Jesus is the Son of the Father, a separate being.

I believe that is incorrect. God is not a separate being from Himself. One might think that because the flesh is a separate being that it males Jesus a separate being but Jesus is not just flesh but is Spirit as well.

 

[Muffled]

Who else would it be? God is Echad, one , so he is not talking to himself. I don’t think he is talking to the animals. That leaves the angels

I don't believe we know what angels are either. It could be that they are alien humanoids since they seem to have materialized as humans in their appearances. If the Caucasians are alien as they claim then natives reflect their image to some extent. At least we don't look like the lizard people.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I believe it does not say persons. It says: "Word" and "God." Both of those terms can refer to the same person. It only becomes two persons when the Word becomes flesh.

So if the Word and God are the same then the Word was with himself. Makes no sense. The Word was WITH God because the Word wa separate from God.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I believe that is incorrect. God is not a separate being from Himself. One might think that because the flesh is a separate being that it males Jesus a separate being but Jesus is not just flesh but is Spirit as well.

So you believe Jesus is your father?

 

[nPeace]

The simple fact is Thomas called him his God. John 20:28 That is what it says in the scripture.

It does not appear you are applying that statement at all, except that you want particular verses to support your view.
However, Thomas addressing Jesus with the expression, "My Lord, and my God" would not contradict scripture, where Thomas recognizes Jesus as the Messiah who has the role of Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Suppose we even were to go along with what you claim, there is absolutely no scriptural support for it.
If Thomas was referring to Jesus as Almighty God, which clearly he was not, then he was wrong. He would have had to be a disciple who was always absent when Jesus was teaching, and arrived when everything was said. Hence was clueless.
However, we know that was not the case.

The simple fact is, none of the apostles, believed Jesus to be almighty God. They were never taught that, and they never had that view. They understood Jesus to be whom he said he was - the son of God, not equal to, but lesser than the father.
Jesus taught them, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God,”
But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.
John 20:i7, 30, 31

That is what scripture says.
Let's continue from that statement.

The Father was the Spirit of God dwelling in the Messiah. Colossians 2:8 For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead (deity) bodily.

Are you sure you used the correct scripture?
I don't see that in Colossians 2:8. That is not what scripture says.
Rather, it says, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
The spirit of God is not the father.

There are too many scriptures to quote here, but...
1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you?
1 Peter 4:14 If you are being reproached for the name of Christ, you are happy, because the spirit of glory, yes, the spirit of God, is resting upon you.
Matthew 3:16, 17 16 After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him. 17 Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” See Isaiah 11:2

Matthew 12:28 But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons, the Kingdom of God has really overtaken you.
Luke 11:20 But if it is by means of God’s finger that I expel the demons, the Kingdom of God has really overtaken you.
Acts 2:1-4, 17, 18, 32, 33
1 Now while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress, they were all together at the same place. 2 Suddenly there was a noise from heaven, just like that of a rushing, stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them, 4 and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.
17 ‘“And in the last days,” God says, “I will pour out some of my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams, 18 and even on my male slaves and on my female slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.
32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear.

The spirit of God is not the father. That is what scripture says.

The Messiah said the Father that dwelleth in me, he does the works. John 14:10

John 14
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto the Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask [e]anything in my name, that will I do. 15 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. 16 And I will [f]pray the Father, and he shall give you another [g]Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you [h]desolate: I come unto you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world beholdeth me no more; but ye behold me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

So can you explain what the last statement - verse 20 - is saying?

The Father is the only God. 1 Corinthians 8:6

Yes. So what was the purpose of God saying...
(Exodus 4:16) He will speak for you to the people, and he will be your spokesman, and you will serve as God to him.
(Exodus 20:2, 3) . . .“I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 3 You must not have any other gods besides me.
(2 Corinthians 4:3, 4) 3 If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

The only God is a Spirit. John 4:24

Yes. According to scripture, all the heavenly host are spirit, and they are god-like, hence they are gods, or divine ones. (Hebrews 1:7) Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.”

Those taken from the earth to heaven, are also spirit. (1 Corinthians 15:44, 45) It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

There is only one Spirit Ephesians 4:4

What is that one spirit being referred to here? Please use scripture(s) to provide the answer.

The Holy Spirit is the Father Matthew 1:18-20 (she was found with child of the Holy Spirit - that means the Holy Spirit is the Father of that fleshly body)

Not according to scripture. The holy spirit is not the father. It is the spirit of the father. That's what scripture says.

The scripture says that YHWH is the God of all flesh. So the eternal Spirit is the God of that flesh also.

No. Please provide scripture.
The scriptures say God is the one who gives the spirit. The spirit is from God. It is not God. It belongs to him. (Psalm 104:30) If you send forth your spirit, they are created; And you make the face of the ground new. . .

 

[nPeace]

As I said before the confusion is because people don't see the distinction between the flesh and the Spirit. They think it is talking about two different persons. But God didn't have blood to shed, so he made himself a body to dwell in and sacrifice for man's sin. That body was a human fleshly body that could feel pain, shed blood, and die. God called the body his Son, but it wasn't another person. It was his body, that he would dwell in. So when someone was looking at the Messiah, they were seeing the Father - because the Father was the one dwelling in that body. That body was the image the invisible God took on.

The Father is the eternal Spirit, and the Son is the fleshly body he took on. The flesh would pray to the Spirit, but it wasn't one person talking to another person, it was the weak flesh crying out to the Spirit for strength. But Father and Son is still just a distinction between the flesh and the Spirit, not two different persons.

No. Please provide scripture.
The son of God, not God, said, "You (Jehovah) prepared a body for me."
(Hebrews 10:5-10) 5 So when he comes into the world, he says: “‘Sacrifice and offering you did not want, but you prepared a body for me. 6 You did not approve of whole burnt offerings and sin offerings.’ 7 Then I said: ‘Look! I have come (in the scroll it is written about me) to do your will, O God.’” 8 After first saying: “You did not want nor did you approve of sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sin offerings”—sacrifices that are offered according to the Law— 9 then he says: “Look! I have come to do your will.” He does away with what is first in order to establish what is second. 10 By this “will” we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.

The son of God, left his heavenly position, as a spirit being, and took on flesh, so as to die (shed his blood) in behalf of mankind.
That is what scripture says.

John 1:14 So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth.
See John 3:16

As far as I know, most people, if not all, that I have had conversation, on this subject, don't seem to be confused about the distinction between the flesh and the Spirit. The confusion apparently is made, when persons do not accept that no scripture supports the view that Almighty God came to earth as a man. They however seem determined to find a way to make scripture fit that view, creating confusion, and adding to it.

When he said the son can do nothing of himself - he was saying the flesh couldn't do anything. He said it was the Father (the eternal Spirit) dwelling in him that did the works. When he said Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up - it was the eternal Spirit speaking. The Father was the one dwelling in that body and saying he would raise it up.

Can you explain what you mean by the father dwelling in the body, and how do you link that with Matthew 27:46.

I couldn't understand all your answers. Maybe it's this format. It is difficult to say things back and forth without being misunderstood.

I answered all your questions... scripturally. Which do you say, I left out?
Surely not the following...

#1 How did YHWH create all things alone and by himself, if someone else was there and did it for him? Please explain a little better.

#3 Yes, the Messiah did answer them about showing them the Father, and he said - Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me? He that has seen me has seen the Father. He was telling them they were seeing the Father.

#4 If he was not God, how could the Messiah say he would raise up his own body? If he was just a man he couldn't raise himself from the dead.

#5 Once that fleshly body was glorified, the Messiah said that he had all power in heaven and in earth. If you have all power, you are the almighty. Besides there is only one God, so it makes no difference if it says mighty in one place and almighty in another place. It is still the same One and only God.

#6. John the Baptist was the voice in the wilderness, and John was supposed to prepare the way for YHWH. So the Messiah had to be YHWH dwelling in a fleshly body.

Which did you not understand?
Nothing you say here has a scriptural reference.
So I take it these are just your views, but they are not scriptural, and has no scriptural backing.
So you will need to provide scripture(s), so that I can at least get some indication that you are considering scripture.


Even the demons acknowledged that Jesus is the son of God.
Mark 5:7 Then he cried out with a loud voice: “What have I to do with you, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I put you under oath by God not to torment me.”
Never did anyone ever say he was almighty God - Not Jesus. Not his disciples. Not the Devil, nor his demons. Nobody. So why do you?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I don't believe we know what angels are either. It could be that they are alien humanoids since they seem to have materialized as humans in their appearances. If the Caucasians are alien as they claim then natives reflect their image to some extent. At least we don't look like the lizard people.

Very funny.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

It does not appear you are applying that statement at all, except that you want particular verses to support your view.
However, Thomas addressing Jesus with the expression, "My Lord, and my God" would not contradict scripture, where Thomas recognizes Jesus as the Messiah who has the role of Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Suppose we even were to go along with what you claim, there is absolutely no scriptural support for it.
If Thomas was referring to Jesus as Almighty God, which clearly he was not, then he was wrong. He would have had to be a disciple who was always absent when Jesus was teaching, and arrived when everything was said. Hence was clueless.
However, we know that was not the case.

The simple fact is, none of the apostles, believed Jesus to be almighty God. They were never taught that, and they never had that view. They understood Jesus to be whom he said he was - the son of God, not equal to, but lesser than the father.
Jesus taught them, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God,”
But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.
John 20:i7, 30, 31

That is what scripture says.
Let's continue from that statement.


Are you sure you used the correct scripture?
I don't see that in Colossians 2:8. That is not what scripture says.
Rather, it says, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
The spirit of God is not the father.

There are too many scriptures to quote here, but...
1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you?
1 Peter 4:14 If you are being reproached for the name of Christ, you are happy, because the spirit of glory, yes, the spirit of God, is resting upon you.
Matthew 3:16, 17 16 After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him. 17 Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” See Isaiah 11:2

Matthew 12:28 But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons, the Kingdom of God has really overtaken you.
Luke 11:20 But if it is by means of God’s finger that I expel the demons, the Kingdom of God has really overtaken you.
Acts 2:1-4, 17, 18, 32, 33
1 Now while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress, they were all together at the same place. 2 Suddenly there was a noise from heaven, just like that of a rushing, stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them, 4 and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.
17 ‘“And in the last days,” God says, “I will pour out some of my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams, 18 and even on my male slaves and on my female slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.
32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear.

The spirit of God is not the father. That is what scripture says.



John 14
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto the Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask [e]anything in my name, that will I do. 15 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. 16 And I will [f]pray the Father, and he shall give you another [g]Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you [h]desolate: I come unto you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world beholdeth me no more; but ye behold me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

So can you explain what the last statement - verse 20 - is saying?

Yes. So what was the purpose of God saying...
(Exodus 4:16) He will speak for you to the people, and he will be your spokesman, and you will serve as God to him.
(Exodus 20:2, 3) . . .“I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 3 You must not have any other gods besides me.
(2 Corinthians 4:3, 4) 3 If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.


Yes. According to scripture, all the heavenly host are spirit, and they are god-like, hence they are gods, or divine ones. (Hebrews 1:7) Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.”

Those taken from the earth to heaven, are also spirit. (1 Corinthians 15:44, 45) It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.


What is that one spirit being referred to here? Please use scripture(s) to provide the answer.


Not according to scripture. The holy spirit is not the father. It is the spirit of the father. That's what scripture says.


No. Please provide scripture.
The scriptures say God is the one who gives the spirit. The spirit is from God. It is not God. It belongs to him. (Psalm 104:30) If you send forth your spirit, they are created; And you make the face of the ground new. . .

There is only one God, the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6)
God is a Spirit (John 4:24) That means the Father is a Spirit.
There is only one Spirit of God (Ephesians 4:4 , 1 Corinthians 12:11) If there is only one God, and that one God is a Spirit, then there can only be one Spirit of God.
God is holy ( 1 Peter 1:16 ) That means God is a holy Spirit.
God said, I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh. (Joel 2:28 , Acts 2:17-18 ) So the Holy Spirit is his Spirit, not another Spirit.
Mary was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit ( Matthew 1:18 ) Proving the Holy Spirit is the Father. You said the Holy Spirit isn't the Father, but it is according to the scripture.

You referenced 1 Corinthians 3:16 - it says know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? But now, also read 1 Corinthians 6:19 - Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you.

Notice two things when you compare the verses.
1. The body is called the temple of God in one verse, while the body is called the temple of the Holy Spirit in the other verse. (so the Holy Spirit is God) Again proving that the Holy Spirit is God and is therefore the Father.
2. It says the Spirit of God dwelleth in you in one verse, while it says the Holy Spirit which is in you in the other verse. ( Proving the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit ) Just as he said in Joel 2:28 - I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh.

Also 2 Corinthians 6:16 says: For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: I will dwell in them... Notice that God is saying he will dwell in his people.

Surely you aren't saying the Father who is a Spirit, has a Spirit. If so please quote me that scripture.

Ok, so I should have included verse 9, but it is what the scripture says. Colossians 2:8-9 For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead (deity) bodily.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I answered all your questions... scripturally. Which do you say, I left out?
Surely not the following...


Which did you not understand?

In some logical way, explain how YHWH created all things alone and by himself, if someone else was there and did it for him.

If someone else was there, then how in the world would he be alone and by himself?


I have explained the answer to your question about Matthew 27:46 in my previous posts. It was the flesh crying out to the Spirit.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Never did anyone ever say he was almighty God - Not Jesus. Not his disciples. Not the Devil, nor his demons. Nobody. So why do you?

Why you ask - think about these verses.

Revelation 1:7-8 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
Question 1 - Who is the one to come? (Remember it says he is the Almighty in verse 8.)

Revelation 1:11 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.
Question 2 - Is the First and the Last also the Alpha and the Omega?

Revelation 1:17-18 , Revelation 2:8 - Surely you will acknowledge that the Messiah is the First and the Last, the one who was dead and is alive for evermore. (
Question 3 - Is the Messiah the First and the Last?

Revelation 4:8 Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!
Question 4 - Who is the one to come? (It's pretty clear he is called the Almighty here.)

Revelation 21:5-7 Verse 5 - He who sat on the throne said... Verse 6 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. Verse 7 - I will be his God and he shall be my son.

Revelation 22:12-13 And behold I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to give every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. Verse 20 - Surely I am coming quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!
Question 5 - Who is the one to come, and claiming to be the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, and the First and the Last?

Summary:
Revelation 22:12-13 and verse 20, is clearly regarding the risen Messiah, and he is claiming to be the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, and the First and the Last.
Revelation 1:7-8 lets us know the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End is the Almighty.
Revelation 21:5-7 lets us know the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End sits on the throne, and he said he will be our God.

So I disagree with you that he never said he was Almighty God. He just didn't say it the way you want him to.

 

[nPeace]

There is only one God, the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6)
God is a Spirit (John 4:24) That means the Father is a Spirit.
There is only one Spirit of God (Ephesians 4:4 , 1 Corinthians 12:11) If there is only one God, and that one God is a Spirit, then there can only be one Spirit of God.
God is holy ( 1 Peter 1:16 ) That means God is a holy Spirit.
God said, I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh. (Joel 2:28 , Acts 2:17-18 ) So the Holy Spirit is his Spirit, not another Spirit.
Mary was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit ( Matthew 1:18 ) Proving the Holy Spirit is the Father. You said the Holy Spirit isn't the Father, but it is according to the scripture.

You referenced 1 Corinthians 3:16 - it says know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? But now, also read 1 Corinthians 6:19 - Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you.

Notice two things when you compare the verses.
1. The body is called the temple of God in one verse, while the body is called the temple of the Holy Spirit in the other verse. (so the Holy Spirit is God) Again proving that the Holy Spirit is God and is therefore the Father.
2. It says the Spirit of God dwelleth in you in one verse, while it says the Holy Spirit which is in you in the other verse. ( Proving the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit ) Just as he said in Joel 2:28 - I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh.

Also 2 Corinthians 6:16 says: For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: I will dwell in them... Notice that God is saying he will dwell in his people.

Surely you aren't saying the Father who is a Spirit, has a Spirit. If so please quote me that scripture.

Ok, so I should have included verse 9, but it is what the scripture says. Colossians 2:8-9 For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead (deity) bodily.

Hmmmm. I hope you are reading my posts carefully, as I am taking the time to do with yours.
You seem to be missing, or not addressing the points I make, and the answers I give.

According to scripture, all the heavenly host are spirit, (Hebrews 1:7)
Those taken from the earth to heaven, are also spirit. (1 Corinthians 15:44, 45)
Therefore...
What is that one spirit being referred to here? Please use scripture(s) to provide the answer.

You didn't miss that one, did you?

Recall, you said...
The Father was the Spirit of God dwelling in the Messiah. Colossians 2:8 For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead (deity) bodily.
We include verse 9. Okay.

Remember the scriptures I quoted, and the one you mentioned here.
The spirit of the father dwells in other humans, so could you please explain your argument.
Are you making the point that the spirit of the father dwells in the Messiah - making him God?
Then in that case, the spirit of the father dwelling in humans make them God as well... according to your argument. Isn't that so?

You never addresses the question I asked regarding John 14:20
In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

So can you explain what the last statement - verse 20 - is saying?
Why are you not addressing any of my questions?

When we read the context surrounding Colossians 2:9, we still see no scriptural support for the view you hold. For example,
Colossians 1
3 We give thanks to God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ...
12 giving thanks unto the Father, who made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light; 13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; 14 in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins: 15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; 17 and he is before all things, and in him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it was the good pleasure of the Father that in him should all the fulness dwell; 20 and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him

Clearly, the context does not support the view that Jesus is Almighty God.

Additionally...
Consider this article, on the use of the word theotes.
...none of the above-mentioned words - Godhead, deity, divinity - necessarily mean that Christ is Almighty God. True, they could all be interpreted to mean that. But, then again, they can all be used to mean having the nature of a god rather than Almighty God. Secondly, all of these terms refer first and foremost to character, quality, state, nature and then, by extension, to identity.

Apparently, your interpreting the verse to support the view of Trinitarians, does not have scriptural support.

Other questions I asked, which you did not respond to..
So what was the purpose of God saying...
(Exodus 4:16) He will speak for you to the people, and he will be your spokesman, and you will serve as God to him.
(Exodus 20:2, 3) . . .“I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 3 You must not have any other gods besides me.
(2 Corinthians 4:3, 4) 3 If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

You also did not address my response with this.
The son of God, not God, said, "You (Jehovah) prepared a body for me."
(Hebrews 10:5-10) 5 So when he comes into the world, he says: “‘Sacrifice and offering you did not want, but you prepared a body for me. 6 You did not approve of whole burnt offerings and sin offerings.’ 7 Then I said: ‘Look! I have come (in the scroll it is written about me) to do your will, O God.’”

Why didn't you respond?
Are you therefore agreeing, that God did not put on a body, but rather it was the only begotten son of God?
Note, please, only begotten son of God - begotten.

In some logical way, explain how YHWH created all things alone and by himself, if someone else was there and did it for him.

If someone else was there, then how in the world would he be alone and by himself?


I have explained the answer to your question about Matthew 27:46 in my previous posts. It was the flesh crying out to the Spirit.

I answered this question specifically.
Perhaps looking at the answer again, and explaining to me what you don't understand, will help me.

Why you ask - think about these verses.

Revelation 1:7-8 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
Question 1 - Who is the one to come? (Remember it says he is the Almighty in verse 8.)

Revelation 1:11 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.
Question 2 - Is the First and the Last also the Alpha and the Omega?

Revelation 1:17-18 , Revelation 2:8 - Surely you will acknowledge that the Messiah is the First and the Last, the one who was dead and is alive for evermore. (
Question 3 - Is the Messiah the First and the Last?

Revelation 4:8 Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!
Question 4 - Who is the one to come? (It's pretty clear he is called the Almighty here.)

Revelation 21:5-7 Verse 5 - He who sat on the throne said... Verse 6 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. Verse 7 - I will be his God and he shall be my son.

Revelation 22:12-13 And behold I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to give every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. Verse 20 - Surely I am coming quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!
Question 5 - Who is the one to come, and claiming to be the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, and the First and the Last?

Summary:
Revelation 22:12-13 and verse 20, is clearly regarding the risen Messiah, and he is claiming to be the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, and the First and the Last.
Revelation 1:7-8 lets us know the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End is the Almighty.
Revelation 21:5-7 lets us know the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End sits on the throne, and he said he will be our God.

So I disagree with you that he never said he was Almighty God. He just didn't say it the way you want him to.

Hmmmm.
Revelation, Revelation, Revelation, Revelation, Revelation, Revelation, Revelation, Revelation.
Right.

The Alpha and Omega is Jehovah only.
The Almighty is Jehovah only.
The First and the last from the dead, is Christ.
Again context is helpful. We do not just pick a few phrases in an effort to support a view that's evidently not scriptural.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

From the context, I understand Jehovah to be building confidence in Israel, that he is their deliverer. From verse one right through to the last verse, we see this. Hence there seem no reason for Jehovah to give details about his son's share.
It was Jehovah's spirit, by which the work was done - his spirit, and no one else's.
That's how I see it.

YHWH said he was alone and by himself when he created things. You have not explained how he can be alone or by himself if someone else is there and does it for him. You have given a response, but not an actual answer as to how he was alone and by himself.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Hmmmm.
Revelation, Revelation, Revelation, Revelation, Revelation, Revelation, Revelation, Revelation.
Right.

The Alpha and Omega is Jehovah only.
The Almighty is Jehovah only.
The First and the last from the dead, is Christ.
Again context is helpful. We do not just pick a few phrases in an effort to support a view that's evidently not scriptural.

It is very scriptural, you just aren't accepting what the scripture says.

For instance I noticed you seem to be ignoring Revelation 22:12-13 where the Messiah said he is the Alpha and Omega (who you say is Jehovah only), and the Beginning and the End, and the First and the Last. YHWH said he was the First and the Last in Isaiah 44:6 and Isaiah 41:4. (You can't have more than one that is first and last.)

You say Messiah is the First and the last from the dead? How can he be last from the dead if there is a resurrection of the dead when he returns, as he taught in John 6:44 and many other places?

You say you answer my questions, so, who in Revelation 22:12-20 is the one to come, and claiming to be the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, and the First and the Last?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Hmmmm. I hope you are reading my posts carefully, as I am taking the time to do with yours.
You seem to be missing, or not addressing the points I make, and the answers I give.

According to scripture, all the heavenly host are spirit, (Hebrews 1:7)
Those taken from the earth to heaven, are also spirit. (1 Corinthians 15:44, 45)
Therefore...
What is that one spirit being referred to here? Please use scripture(s) to provide the answer.

You didn't miss that one, did you?

Recall, you said...
The Father was the Spirit of God dwelling in the Messiah. Colossians 2:8 For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead (deity) bodily.
We include verse 9. Okay.

Remember the scriptures I quoted, and the one you mentioned here.
The spirit of the father dwells in other humans, so could you please explain your argument.
Are you making the point that the spirit of the father dwells in the Messiah - making him God?
Then in that case, the spirit of the father dwelling in humans make them God as well... according to your argument. Isn't that so?

I try to carefully read your posts. I am still looking at answers to respond with for a few of the questions. But you seem to be ignoring the main points I make. You respond, but don't really answer the problems you are presented with.

Such as how God can have created all things alone and by himself, when you say he had a helper that did things for him? If he had a helper with him, how was he by himself and alone? In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth - so whoever did it was God.

You ignored that in Revelation 22:12-20 the Messiah said he was the Alpha and Omega. You said the Alpha and Omega is the Almighty, and is Jehovah only. Once again you have a problem here. You seem to want me to move on like you have answered it, just because you made a response.

They directly asked the Messiah to show them the Father, and he told them if you have seen me you have seen the Father. That is a problem for you whether you choose to admit it or not.

I didn't miss the question about who the one Spirit in Ephesians 4:4 was. I thought I answered it when I gave you 1 Corinthians 12:11, which says But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit ... The verses above let us know it is the same Spirit, the same Lord, the same God. So the one Spirit in Ephesians 4:4 is God. Common sense lets you know it can't be referring to man or angels, etc. because there are many men and many angels. But there is only one God, and that one God is a Spirit. John 4:24

You conveniently left off the plural in your reference to Hebrews 1:7 above. The angels are ministering spirits. Hebrews 1:14

We are made in God's image. Genesis 1:27 The Messiah was the image of the invisible God. Colossians 1:15 There is a big difference between being made in the image of God, and being the image of the invisible God.

Yes - I am making the point that the Messiah was the one and only God manifest in the flesh. 2 Corinthians 5:19 - to wit that God was in Messiah reconciling the world unto himself. John 14:10 - the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Colossians 2:8-9 - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead (deity) bodily.

In answer to your question: No, a person is not God just because he fills them with his Spirit. There was something unique about the Messiah, as he was the only begotten of the Father. The eternal Spirit was the Father of that body. That body was the image of the invisible God. It was the fleshly body he took on to sacrifice for man's sin.

 

[nPeace]

YHWH said he was alone and by himself when he created things. You have not explained how he can be alone or by himself if someone else is there and does it for him. You have given a response, but not an actual answer as to how he was alone and by himself.

Since you are not explaining, then I have to assume you don't understand.
In that case, I am sorry I can't help you there.

It is very scriptural, you just aren't accepting what the scripture says.

For instance I noticed you seem to be ignoring Revelation 22:12-13 where the Messiah said he is the Alpha and Omega (who you say is Jehovah only), and the Beginning and the End, and the First and the Last. YHWH said he was the First and the Last in Isaiah 44:6 and Isaiah 41:4. (You can't have more than one that is first and last.)

You say Messiah is the First and the last from the dead? How can he be last from the dead if there is a resurrection of the dead when he returns, as he taught in John 6:44 and many other places?

You say you answer my questions, so, who in Revelation 22:12-20 is the one to come, and claiming to be the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, and the First and the Last?

Again, you are not applying the context, and therefore using your belief to interpret the text incorrectly.
Who is speaking in verses 10-15?
In fact, is it not John?

The Alpha and Omega is Jehovah alone - not Christ.

I try to carefully read your posts. I am still looking at answers to respond with for a few of the questions. But you seem to be ignoring the main points I make. You respond, but don't really answer the problems you are presented with.

Such as how God can have created all things alone and by himself, when you say he had a helper that did things for him? If he had a helper with him, how was he by himself and alone? In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth - so whoever did it was God.

You ignored that in Revelation 22:12-20 the Messiah said he was the Alpha and Omega. You said the Alpha and Omega is the Almighty, and is Jehovah only. Once again you have a problem here. You seem to want me to move on like you have answered it, just because you made a response.

They directly asked the Messiah to show them the Father, and he told them if you have seen me you have seen the Father. That is a problem for you whether you choose to admit it or not.

I didn't miss the question about who the one Spirit in Ephesians 4:4 was. I thought I answered it when I gave you 1 Corinthians 12:11, which says But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit ... The verses above let us know it is the same Spirit, the same Lord, the same God. So the one Spirit in Ephesians 4:4 is God. Common sense lets you know it can't be referring to man or angels, etc. because there are many men and many angels. But there is only one God, and that one God is a Spirit. John 4:24

You conveniently left off the plural in your reference to Hebrews 1:7 above. The angels are ministering spirits. Hebrews 1:14

We are made in God's image. Genesis 1:27 The Messiah was the image of the invisible God. Colossians 1:15 There is a big difference between being made in the image of God, and being the image of the invisible God.

Yes - I am making the point that the Messiah was the one and only God manifest in the flesh. 2 Corinthians 5:19 - to wit that God was in Messiah reconciling the world unto himself. John 14:10 - the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Colossians 2:8-9 - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead (deity) bodily.

In answer to your question: No, a person is not God just because he fills them with his Spirit. There was something unique about the Messiah, as he was the only begotten of the Father. The eternal Spirit was the Father of that body. That body was the image of the invisible God. It was the fleshly body he took on to sacrifice for man's sin.

Apparently you are projecting your belief on the Bible, and not willing to accept anything it says contrary to your belief, hence you don't seem to understand that all your questions were addressed scripturally, while you skip over specific questions I ask.
So I think I will ask one question which will determine, if it's worth going any further, as I am sure you would agree it would be pointless having a Bible discussion, if we are not going to use the Bible, but just project our view.

Question :
Is Jehovah / the Almighty, Jesus' God and father, whom Jesus obey's and does the will of... then can Jesus, who is the only begotten son, be God almighty - the father? John 4:34; 5:29-36;

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Since you are not explaining, then I have to assume you don't understand.
In that case, I am sorry I can't help you there.


Again, you are not applying the context, and therefore using your belief to interpret the text incorrectly.
Who is speaking in verses 10-15?
In fact, is it not John?

The Alpha and Omega is Jehovah alone - not Christ.


Apparently you are projecting your belief on the Bible, and not willing to accept anything it says contrary to your belief, hence you don't seem to understand that all your questions were addressed scripturally, while you skip over specific questions I ask.
So I think I will ask one question which will determine, if it's worth going any further, as I am sure you would agree it would be pointless having a Bible discussion, if we are not going to use the Bible, but just project our view.

Question :
Is Jehovah / the Almighty, Jesus' God and father, whom Jesus obey's and does the will of... then can Jesus, who is the only begotten son, be God almighty - the father? John 4:34; 5:29-36;

I have been addressing your questions using the Bible. I have given many scriptures backing up things I say. So you are being very misleading. I told you I had a few questions I was still working on answers for. But you just seem to ignore the problems I point out to you.

No it is not John speaking in Revelation 22:10-15. Surely you don't think John is claiming in verse 13 to be the Alpha and Omega do you? John is the one that wrote the things down. Revelation 22:16 gives the answer. Who does it say sent his angel to testify these things? Now compare that with Revelation 22:6 which says God sent his angel. Once again this poses a problem for you. Will you just ignore it?

I have tried to explain the answer to your question before, I think you just don't understand me. The Father was the Spirit of God dwelling in the Messiah. The Father had overshadowed the virgin Mary, and she brought forth a son. So yes, that makes YHWH the Father of that body. But he would also dwell in that body. That fleshly body was the image the invisible God took on. Yes the flesh was obedient to the Spirit. Yes the Spirit was greater than the flesh. The question is who was it that was dwelling in that body?

Why do you have such a problem with him being both Father and Son just like Isaiah 9:6 said he would be? It foretold that the son to be born, would also in some way be God, and the everlasting Father.

But the scripture does say no one knows who the Son is, but the Father, neither knows any man the Father, except the Son and he to whom the Son will reveal him. Matthew 11:27 and Luke 10:22

I think maybe you are right about it probably not being worth continuing. If you are truly unable to see the difference between being alone and being with someone, how can I even discuss it with you?

 

[nPeace]

I have been addressing your questions using the Bible. I have given many scriptures backing up things I say. So you are being very misleading. I told you I had a few questions I was still working on answers for. But you just seem to ignore the problems I point out to you.

No it is not John speaking in Revelation 22:10-15. Surely you don't think John is claiming in verse 13 to be the Alpha and Omega do you? John is the one that wrote the things down. Revelation 22:16 gives the answer. Who does it say sent his angel to testify these things? Now compare that with Revelation 22:6 which says God sent his angel. Once again this poses a problem for you. Will you just ignore it?

I have tried to explain the answer to your question before, I think you just don't understand me. The Father was the Spirit of God dwelling in the Messiah. The Father had overshadowed the virgin Mary, and she brought forth a son. So yes, that makes YHWH the Father of that body. But he would also dwell in that body. That fleshly body was the image the invisible God took on. Yes the flesh was obedient to the Spirit. Yes the Spirit was greater than the flesh. The question is who was it that was dwelling in that body?

Why do you have such a problem with him being both Father and Son just like Isaiah 9:6 said he would be? It foretold that the son to be born, would also in some way be God, and the everlasting Father.

But the scripture does say no one knows who the Son is, but the Father, neither knows any man the Father, except the Son and he to whom the Son will reveal him. Matthew 11:27 and Luke 10:22

I think maybe you are right about it probably not being worth continuing. If you are truly unable to see the difference between being alone and being with someone, how can I even discuss it with you?

Rather than ask, who is speaking, perhaps I should have asked, who is narrating.

Why that is important, is because John is conveying a message from an angel.
The angel is relating many things, which are "a revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him". So to assume that every part of this revelation is Jesus' words, would not be reasonable.

For example...
Revelation 22:10
He also tells me: “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, for the appointed time is near

Who tells John?
Context :
(Revelation 22:8, 9)
8 Well I, John, was the one hearing and seeing these things. When I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing me these things. 9 But he tells me. . .

The angel tells John.
Verse 12 “‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to repay each one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. 14 Happy are those who wash . . .

John - the narrator - is relating what the angel - the messenger with a revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him - says...
"Look! I am coming..."
I am the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last..."

Now the question is, is the angel saying that of himself?
No. Then whom? How would we know?
Do you agree that we must be consistent with scripture, and not jump all over the place freely as we like?
Certainly, if we are consistent, it would alleviate any confusion that men would create. Isn't that true?

Let's go then. Let's be consistent with scripture.

(Revelation 21:1-9)
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth...
5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” 6 And he said to me: “They have come to pass! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To anyone thirsting I will give from the spring of the water of life free. 7 Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.” 9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls that were full of the seven last plagues came and said to me: “Come, and I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s . . .

Notice that John, the narrator, is quickly switching from one person to another.
Nevertheless, the One seated on the throne [Jehovah], says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end."
So we have it from scripture who the one is, that has identified themselves personally as the Alpha and Omega. It is Jehovah.

Coming down the line to verse 16, John switches to another speaker, who identifies himself as Jesus - "‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you about these things ..."
Quickly John switcher to another, or other speakers, again identifying them... Verse 17 "...the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free."

Now, verse 18... Who is speaking? John? The angel? Who?
It appears he switches again to angel.
Then John chimes in with, “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.” (verse 20)

There is apparently no reason to confuse the scriptural truth with a Trinitarian doctrine.
Jesus is not God Almighty - never has been, never will be. He is a son of God. Not Almighty God himself. This is scripture.


I don't believe explaining what I already did before, will ever change your mind, so we agree, it is not worth continuing.... not because I don't understand the difference between being alone, and being with someone... that's a funny twist, but because you are not holding to scripture. Rather, you are presenting an unscriptural doctrine, and determined to hold on to it, despite it being clearly shown to be false.

Any time one has to scurry through the Bible looking for one or two scriptures to support a teaching, and then inject views with words such as, "this means", and things such as, "You conveniently left off the plural in your reference to Hebrews 1:7 above."
Say what?
If they are spirits plural, then there must be spirit singular - as in one spirit, a spirit. So how does that statement change the fact that there is more than one spirit?

Anyway. you're trying... trying the wrong road... but I suppose we have the choice of being on one or the other.
Take care.