dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Isaiah disagrees. All you've done is re-prove that the Book of John is a different religion with a different God than the Hebrew bible.
Ummmm, there's just 1 divine power in Genesis 1:1.
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101G
Well-Known Member
ERROR, only one Person CREATED all things. now is it one person who created ALL NEW THINGS? yes or no. Isa 66:22 or Rev 21:5? your answer please.
101G.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Bro-seph, it's not "acharon" in the verse. It is acharonNIM. Plural. Let me help you since you don't know Hebrew.question, if so, was your "Last ones" from the beginning? ....... well, read the scripture again, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
Now using bible hub. according to Brown-Driver-Briggs on 314. acharon
b. of time, latter or last (according to context)
but Isaiah 41:4 the last, the, the, the, meaning one that is Last
you can find it at Strong's Hebrew: 314. אַחֲרוֹן (acharon) -- coming after or behind (biblehub.com) ,,,,,,, REPROVE, you better check all of the context...... so, your Hebrew is faulty.
REPROVED
101G.
Here's Isaiah 41:1 in Hebrew:
מִֽי־פָעַ֣ל וְעָשָׂ֔ה קֹרֵ֥א הַדֹּר֖וֹת מֵרֹ֑אשׁ אֲנִ֚י יְהֹוָה֙ רִאשׁ֔וֹן וְאֶת־אַֽחֲרֹנִ֖ים אֲנִי־הֽוּא
The word in blue is "acharonim". The "-im" at the end makes it plural.
Compare that to Isaiah 48:12 in Hebrew:
שְׁמַ֚ע אֵלַי֙ יַֽעֲקֹ֔ב וְיִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מְקֹֽרָאִ֑י אֲנִי־הוּא֙ אֲנִ֣י רִאשׁ֔וֹן אַ֖ף אֲנִ֥י אַֽחֲרֽוֹן
The word in blue above is "acharon". It's singular. Now, you don't need to be able to read Hebrew to see that these are two different words.
Isaiah 41:4 says "last ones" plural. Isaiah 48:12 says "last" singular. If you don't believe me, Biblehub, in this case, correctly identifies plural and singular. They botch the translation, but they get plural/singular correct, and they get the transliteration correct. So you can see that I'm correct that the word in Isaiah 41:4 is NOT "acharon" it is "acharonim".
Notice how they have the word identified as "Adj-mp", the "p" designates the word plural. It should be translated as "last ones".
Here's Isaiah 48:12:
Here you can plainly see the word is "acharon". And the word is identified as "Adj-ms". The "s" means singular.
Biblehub isn't always right, but at least it has the singular / plural correct and the transliteration correct in this case.
So, a proper translation of Isaiah 41:4 would correctly translate "acharonim" as "last ones" plural. So that verse doesn't really mean that God is a plurality.
101G
Well-Known Member
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
First of all, God is not a person. You keep ignoring Numbers 23:19.
Isaiah 66:22: there's just 1 God there, no plurality, no son-of-man, no Jesus. What are you imagining here?
Revelations is irrelevent to what Isaiah is preaching. If it speaks about multiple gods, I wouldn't be surprised, I mean, it's not part of the Hebrew bible.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Here you go... Brown-Driver-Briggs confirms acharonim is PLURAL. See the "pl", that means plural.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Already done, boss. Too easy.
101G
Well-Known Member
your first ERROR of the DAY, by the way..... Good Morning....... (smile). Another word for PERSON is "Soul" and God have a Soul. let's check the record. Isaiah 1:14 "Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them." so, your first ERROR of the DAY is corrected. now, quit worrying the LORD.....
no imagination. I asked you point blank, "is the Person in Isaiah 66:22 who will MAKE all things New is the same one Person who sits on the Throne in Revelation 21:5 who will make all things NEW?.
now answer that and then we will continue.
101G.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Good morning,your first ERROR of the DAY, by the way..... Good Morning....... (smile). Another word for PERSON is "Soul" and God have a Soul. let's check the record. Isaiah 1:14 "Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them." so, your first ERROR of the DAY is corrected. now, quit worrying the LORD.....
Sorry this doesn't work. All creatures have a soul too. So by your logic God is a bird, and a dog, and a moose too.
Of course, you'll need to look at the Hebrew to see it.
We'll start with Isaiah 1:14, here's the Hebrew:
חָדְשֵׁיכֶ֚ם וּמֽוֹעֲדֵיכֶם֙ שָֹֽנְאָ֣ה נַפְשִׁ֔י הָי֥וּ עָלַ֖י לָטֹ֑רַח נִלְאֵ֖יתִי נְשֽׂא
Your New Moons and your appointed seasons My soul hates, they are a burden to Me; I am weary of bearing [them].
Then compare that to Genesis 1:21 in Hebrew:
וַיִּבְרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֔ים אֶת־הַתַּנִּינִ֖ם הַגְּדֹלִ֑ים וְאֵ֣ת כָּל־נֶ֣פֶשׁ הַֽחַיָּ֣ה | הָֽרֹמֶ֡שֶׂת אֲשֶׁר֩ שָֽׁרְצ֨וּ הַמַּ֜יִם לְמִֽינֵהֶ֗ם וְאֵ֨ת כָּל־ע֤וֹף כָּנָף֙ לְמִינֵ֔הוּ וַיַּ֥רְא אֱלֹהִ֖ים כִּי־טֽוֹב
And God created the great sea monsters, and every living soul that crawls, with which the waters swarmed, according to their kind, and every winged fowl, according to its kind, and God saw that it was good.
Here's Strong's just for confirmation:
So there you go: In Isaiah God has a soul. In Genesis all living creatures have a soul. So just having a soul doesn't define a person. God is not a person, Numbers 23:19.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
And I answered. There is no "person" in Isaiah 66:22, no son-of-man, no Jesus, no plurality, just YHVH.
I also said Revelations is irrelevent to what Isaiah is preaching. But since you insist, Revelations 21 is a vision, it's a human rendered, aka imagined, representation of God. Sometimes people need a metaphor to communicate abstract concepts. It doesn't mean that the abstract concept suddenly becomes material. It just means that sometimes communication requires bringing an idea into physical dimensions.
Taking the metaphor literally is making a graven image in the mind. It's a crutch, it makes God easier to relate to. If you want a relatable god, I can understand imagining that god in a human form. It's incorrect per the Hebrew bible, but, people do what they do.
Like I said before, it's easy to get confused about the nature of the divine when reading Jewish scripture. There's different names, and different ways that God is revealed to the Jewish people. As a result, the Jewish people repeatedly transgressed, and Isaiah came at a time of crisis to clarify and rebuke.
Isaiah 45:5-6. There is no plurality in the divine. None. That is what Isaiah says. If your theology disagrees, then your theology disagrees with Isaiah.
Note from Isaiah 45:6... "there is NONE beside me". If you like to take things literally, this is pretty clear. No divine mediator, no angelic 2nd in command, no other divine "persons", NONE means none.
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101G
Well-Known Member
I know that you're sorry, because the word of God do not Change. and for God being a bird, mouse... ect. that's nonsense, and silly thinking, we have souls because the CREATOR has a Soul. so, get it right..... (smile)..... lol, lol, lol,
the soul of God is he himself, the SPIRIT or Breath that gives his creatures, all of us LIFE. Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:"
note the definition.
H5315 נֶפֶשׁ nephesh (neh'-fesh) n-f.
1. (properly) a breathing creature, i.e. animal.
2. (abstractly) of vitality.
{used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)}
[from H5314]
KJV: any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
YOU'RE REPROVED.
understand something..... your Hebrew Language is Obsolete.....
101G.
101G
Well-Known Member
is not your YHVH is the LORD? the Lord is a PERSON, because he's Spirit. do hot the pronoun "he" signifies person? ...... (smile)..... REPROVE AGAIN.
but bottom line is this, you have no clue..... lol, lol, lol.
101G
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
You haven't addressed the fact that scripture states all the creatures have a soul. That means that having a soul does not define a person. So Isaiah's wording in Isaiah 1:14 doesn't mean God is a person. And, you're still ignoring Numbers 23:19. God is not a person.I know that you're sorry, because the word of God do not Change. and for God being a bird, mouse... ect. that's nonsense, and silly thinking, we have souls because the CREATOR has a Soul. so, get it right..... (smile)..... lol, lol, lol,
the soul of God is he himself, the SPIRIT or Breath that gives his creatures, all of us LIFE. Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:"
note the definition.
H5315 נֶפֶשׁ nephesh (neh'-fesh) n-f.
1. (properly) a breathing creature, i.e. animal.
2. (abstractly) of vitality.
{used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)}
[from H5314]
KJV: any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
YOU'RE REPROVED.
understand something..... your Hebrew Language is Obsolete.....
101G.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
No, God revealed as masculine ( "I am He" ) does not define God as a person. Dogs can be "he", Cats can be "he", Moose and mice can be "he".
Care to try again?
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
Your demonstrable ill will should not go without comment. When you accuse an Orthodox rabbi of not knowing the Hebrew of the Tanakh and of being ignorant of the psalms the only thing you accomplish is nothing other than exposing your own inadequacies and ignorance.
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dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
1 Samuel 2:3
Isaiah 2:11, Isaiah 2:17, Isaiah 10:33, Isaiah 13:11, Isaiah 16:6
Jeremiah 48:29
Proverbs 8:13, Proverbs 16:18, Proverbs 18:12, Proverbs 21:4
101G
Well-Known Member
all creatures that walk have the breath of God in them.
now you have never address Isaiah 66:22, God is making the NEW HEAVENS, or is it someone else? nor u address if this is the same one in Revelation 21:5 who is making the NEW HEAVENS, and EARTH.
until you can answer me your Hebrew is Obsolete. you cannot tell who your God is.... at all. if he's the creator of the NEW world and you cannot acknowledge him, that says a lot about ...... YOUR GOD, or no God.
101G.