Genesis 2

[outhouse]

Hi Metis, Yes, GOD Himself taught Adam and Eve some very valuable "Morals/values", but it wasn't from an allegory. It was actual experience. They and we are the recipients of those factual events---Obey and live.

You can believe what you want.

But you cannot post personal opinion like "it was a actual experience" without sources backing your statement.


It is against forum rules.

 

[gnostic]

You do see those small "c." before the date---and you are aware that means "circa"=about/around. Therefore, all the dates are "guesses".

"circa" doesn't mean "guesses"; it just that experts can't get the exact dates (accurate), but they know precisely when they happened.

Do not confuse "accuracy" with "precise".

In some case, being more precise is far more important than being accurate, especially when it is impossible in being accurate. Being precise is allowing for margin of errors.

Take for instance, the birth of Jesus. We know that Jesus'' birth occurred before Herod's death, but no scholars or experts know exactly the WHEN.

Was Jesus born on exactly the same year of Herod's death?
Was Jesus born one year earlier? Or was 2, or 3 years?​

So people put Jesus' death to anywhere from 6 BCE to 4 BCE, depending on which expert you're leaning towards to.

Most of the confusions come from the gospels themselves. Though, both gospels say his birth was before Herod's death, the gospels doesn't say when exactly, like in "the 32nd year of Herod's reign" or something like that would have better. And though it is clear that Jesus' birth happen in Augustus being emperor (in Luke 2:1) is helpful, but not to precise, the real damage to finding when Jesus was born come from the governorship and census of Quirinius, also based on Luke 2:1.

Quirinius was never governor of Syria while Herod was alive, and still reigning as king. And the census in Judaea didn't take place until AFTER Archelaus was banished from Judaea, and Judaea became officially a Roman province in 6 CE. Archelaus was ethnarch of Judaea for 10 years after his father death, according to Flavius Josephus.

I believed that Luke is mistaken about when Quirinius' governorship and census had occurred, but we can date Jesus' birth between 6th BCE and 4 BCE, hence we could safely say circa 5 BCE.

So when accurate date can't be given, it is possible to figure out precisely when it had possibly occurred.

There are no doubts that Earth is c. 4.6 billion years old, and humans have been around 200,000 years.

 

[nazz]

You can believe what you want.

But you cannot post personal opinion like "it was a actual experience" without sources backing your statement.


It is against forum rules.

Say what???

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Hi outhouse, the Sumerian language is "supposedly at 2900 B.C. .

Stop your nonsense, you posted nothing that refutes my replies.

I posted facts, you post nonsense with no sources.

You boxed yourself in, and reason, knowledge and education wont let your intellectual dishonesty escape.

Outhouse, I posted from the same "wikipedia" source as you did and there was a 600 year difference.

Those are not guesses and thus you are being intellectual dishonest as your interpretation looks like a factual lie.

Those little (c.) after the years is the abbrev. for circa---meaning around/about. You know--the same root word from which "circumvent" comes. That which your posts imply and you are doing by them.

Also, because you don't like it---doesn't mean that what I posted isn't the message from the Scriptures and isn't correct.

Originally Posted by sincerly
Hi Metis, Yes, GOD Himself taught Adam and Eve some very valuable "Morals/values", but it wasn't from an allegory. It was actual experience. They and we are the recipients of those factual events---Obey and live.

You can believe what you want.

But you cannot post personal opinion like "it was a actual experience" without sources backing your statement.

It is against forum rules.

Thank-you, I will believe as the Scriptures specify and post my opinions/conclusions on these threads which are debating the Scriptures as I understand them.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
You do see those small "c." before the date---and you are aware that means "circa"=about/around. Therefore, all the dates are "guesses".

"circa" doesn't mean "guesses"; it just that experts can't get the exact dates (accurate), but they know precisely when they happened.......

Do not confuse "accuracy" with "precise". I believed that Luke is mistaken about when Quirinius' governorship and census had occurred, but we can date Jesus' birth between 6th BCE and 4 BCE, hence we could safely say circa 5 BCE.

So when accurate date can't be given, it is possible to figure out precisely when it had possibly occurred.

There are no doubts that Earth is c. 4.6 billion years old, and humans have been around 200,000 years.

May I???

 

[outhouse]

Thank-you, I will believe as the Scriptures specify and post my opinions/conclusions on these threads which are debating the Scriptures as I understand them.

Your cornered into intellectual dishonesty.


YOU stated a global flood hapened on a specific date.

I showed you a link on archeology that showed you a civilization that existed hundreds of years before and after your flood date.

I also told you Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilizations existed for a thousand years before and after your flood date with no break in their culture. That also goes for China.

I also showed showed you facts regarding the age of the earth and life on this planet.

YOU have no refuted a single thing. :slap:


Your boxed in by reason, knowledge and education. You have no credible position and are showing dishonest tactics.

 

[sincerly]

Your cornered into intellectual dishonesty.


YOU stated a global flood hapened on a specific date.

I showed you a link on archeology that showed you a civilization that existed hundreds of years before and after your flood date.

I also told you Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilizations existed for a thousand years before and after your flood date with no break in their culture. That also goes for China.

I also showed showed you facts regarding the age of the earth and life on this planet.

YOU have no refuted a single thing. :slap:


Your boxed in by reason, knowledge and education. You have no credible position and are showing dishonest tactics.

Hi outhouse, I posted the flood at about/circa/c. 2354 B.C. . I ,also, showed by your site a 600 year deficit in establishing a date---again, based of other speculation. Like the age of the earth "educated guesses".
You believe modern man's extrapolations----your choice,---but I'll believe that GOD you refer to as a myth.
There are many different projections of the civilizations of the ancient world with varying dates. One "author" building upon "another". You have your "pets" and that being mostly "Wikipedia". I'll stick with the Source called the BIBLE.
Neither of us were there and neither were these "modern scholars" who have dug in the dirt and speculated upon time frames.

Boxed in??? No! Your evidence is only speculative at the best.

The Scriptures tell where the human race came from and why they come to be scattered all over this planet.

 

[outhouse]

There are many different projections of the civilizations of the ancient world with varying dates..

Provide sources, you don't have a credible opinion.

Neither of us were there and neither were these "modern scholars" who have dug in the dirt and speculated upon time frames.

What kind of faulty logic is that? oh I know, when one is desperate to pervert reality they make up false junk.

Stop it! supply sources that state all historians are inaccurate.


This is nothing more then a example of what I have been telling you, you refuse modern education and knowledge.

Boxed in??? No! Your evidence is only speculative at the best.

I posted facts and backed those facts up

The Scriptures tell where the human race came from and why they come to be scattered all over this planet

It is theology and mythology, not accurate history

The human race evolved and it is a fact life has been on this planet over 2.5 BILLION years.



I don't care what you believe, you can live in the dark ages if you please, BUT the rest of the world actually follows education and knowledge, we also use reason and common sense.

It is OK to believe what they teach in almost every university around the world as higher learner


Your cornered into intellectual dishonesty.


YOU stated a global flood happened on a specific date.

I showed you a link on archeology that showed you a civilization that existed hundreds of years before and after your flood date.

I also told you Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilizations existed for a thousand years before and after your flood date with no break in their culture. That also goes for China.

I also showed you facts regarding the age of the earth and life on this planet.

YOU have no refuted a single thing. You have not provided a single source

 

[outhouse]

What it comes down to

Is you cannot prove your mythology.


You cannot show a gap in any large civilization from 4350 ish BC

Not

China
Egypt
Mesopotamian


But guess what I have?

The mythology surrounding Ziusudra. He actually is found on a known kings list. They also wrote flood mythology about him.

One big difference, his flood was a river flood. This was a real flood when the Euphrates overflowed in 2900 BC. This flood wiped out many people and many small villages.

Guess what! OMG the mythology matches that of Noahs in many places word for word.

Guess what! the Sumerians lived long before Israelites even existed. This means we know exactly where your flood mythology originated.

Guess what! the bible back its up as well and even states Noah was from Mesopotamia. Hurray!!! The Genesis flood mythology is solved.

 

[metis]

Hi Metis, Yes, GOD Himself taught Adam and Eve some very valuable "Morals/values", but it wasn't from an allegory. It was actual experience. They and we are the recipients of those factual events---Obey and live.

With what we know today, it really doesn't make any sense to take a literalistic view, especially because taking such a view really doesn't change the morals and values taught. What difference does it really make if Adam & Eve were real people or part of the narrative as allegory? Since it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans, why not accept it as allegory, which makes more sense on what we now know, and learn and act from the lessons taught?

 

[outhouse]

When one takes a literal interpretation, it ruins the beauty of such a epic book.

 

[metis]

When one takes a literal interpretation, it ruins the beauty of such a epic book.

Amen.

 

[sincerly]

Provide sources, you don't have a credible opinion.

Your man-made logic and supposed facts are no better than the ones the serpent told to Eve.
How often do I have to tell you----The Bible is my source for understanding the Scriptural Writings. Not the speculations of men who have rejected GOD.

Stop it! supply sources that state all historians are inaccurate.

Please quote me correctly----I have not said that "ALL historians are inaccurate".
NOR do I "refuse all modern education nor knowledge".

I posted facts and backed those facts up

Yes, you did post suppositions by men who speculated on subjects which were/are really only what is called "educated guesses" at best.----That because they do not accept the GOD that did provide the evidence in that source called the Bible.

It is theology and mythology, not accurate history

The Biblical history of mankind is accutate and not speculative as is the assumptions of mankind who is still trying to determine man's history.

The human race evolved and it is a fact life has been on this planet over 2.5 BILLION years.

The human race did "evolve" from two individuals to a planet of billions. But the human race did not have its origin in a mudhole left from a 'big bang" which happened from nothing. Nor does the Scriptures affirm billions of years in the creation of all things----only Six Days. The GOD of Creation/the Scriptures is an Awesome GOD.

Just more of that same speculation.I don't care what you believe, you can live in the dark ages if you please, BUT the rest of the world actually follows education and knowledge, we also use reason and common sense.

It is OK to believe what they teach in almost every university around the world as higher learner

SO!, We have traded speculations. Yes, The Scriptures call such "education and reasoning"---worldly wise. Yes, one does have that choice to Believe the Scriptural account OR the suppositions of those centers of higher education.

Your cornered into intellectual dishonesty.

According to you.

YOU stated a global flood happened on a specific date.

I showed you a link on archeology that showed you a civilization that existed hundreds of years before and after your flood date.

I also told you Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilizations existed for a thousand years before and after your flood date with no break in their culture. That also goes for China.

I also showed you facts regarding the age of the earth and life on this planet.

YOU have no refuted a single thing. You have not provided a single source

Yes, I gave a "circa" date and it was consistent with the Biblical record. As was all those civilizations which were established after the Flood in the scattering of the people.
The GOD of the Scriptures doesn't take Billions of years to "speak and it stood fast."

 

[sincerly]

With what we know today, it really doesn't make any sense to take a literalistic view, especially because taking such a view really doesn't change the morals and values taught. What difference does it really make if Adam & Eve were real people or part of the narrative as allegory? Since it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans, why not accept it as allegory, which makes more sense on what we now know, and learn and act from the lessons taught?

Hi Metis, you just tossed your Creator away.

 

[sincerly]

When one takes a literal interpretation, it ruins the beauty of such a epic book.

"Legendary Book"?? Yes, in the sense that GOD is real and HIS Truths, like HIMSELF, are Everlasting.

 

[outhouse]

Yes, I gave a "circa" date and it was consistent with the Biblical record. As was all those civilizations which were established after the Flood in the scattering of the people.
The GOD of the Scriptures doesn't take Billions of years to "speak and it stood fast."

Stop your dishonesty. All the civilizations I mentioned existed prior to your food date.:slap:

PROVIDE SOURCES



YOU stated a global flood happened on a specific date.

I showed you a link on archeology that showed you a civilization that existed hundreds of years before and after your flood date.

I also told you Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilizations existed for a thousand years before and after your flood date with no break in their culture. That also goes for China.

I also showed you facts regarding the age of the earth and life on this planet.

YOU have no refuted a single thing. You have not provided a single source

 

[metis]

Hi Metis, you just tossed your Creator away.

And why do you say that?

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly Yes, I gave a "circa" date and it was consistent with the Biblical record. As was all those civilizations which were established after the Flood in the scattering of the people.
The GOD of the Scriptures doesn't take Billions of years to "speak and it stood fast."

Stop your dishonesty. All the civilizations I mentioned existed prior to your food date.:slap:

PROVIDE SOURCES

The "dishonesty" isn't with the Bible nor the narratives contained therein. After the flood, it was shown the scattering of the earth's population. And that, scripturally is shown to occur after the Flood.
The source is that written in the Bible. I accept that recorded as happening because of GOD rather than some speculation and doubt by unbelieving mankind.

YOU stated a global flood happened on a specific date.

I showed you a link on archeology that showed you a civilization that existed hundreds of years before and after your flood date.

I also told you Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilizations existed for a thousand years before and after your flood date with no break in their culture. That also goes for China.

I also showed you facts regarding the age of the earth and life on this planet.

YOU have no refuted a single thing. You have not provided a single source

I have showed you the events recorded in the BIBLE---and I believe.
I have seen the speculations of "scholarly men" which you presented and am NOT impressed by their opinions.

GOD asked of JOB(chap. 38) the questions HE could ask all of your non-believing "scholars"---Where were you when I----?

Their "words are without knowledge" of the most HIGH GOD. Guessess, NOT fact.
To each his own decision/choice.

 

[sincerly]

And why do you say that?

Originally Posted by metis
With what we know today, it really doesn't make any sense to take a literalistic view, especially because taking such a view really doesn't change the morals and values taught. What difference does it really make if Adam & Eve were real people or part of the narrative as allegory? Since it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans, why not accept it as allegory, which makes more sense on what we now know, and learn and act from the lessons taught?


Previous post, "You just tossed away your Creator GOD"

Read carefully the message you gave above and if you can't understand my sentence in light of your answer-----I'll be happy to break it down.

 

[outhouse]

Yes, I gave a "circa" date and it was consistent with the Biblical record.
.

Yes the flood mythology has had a date set, and it has never been proven to have actually happened by anyone with credibility.

As was all those civilizations which were established after the Flood in the scattering of the people.

First there was no global flood, and second you have given no evidence about any part of these civilizations.


Stop the dishonesty.


You have not refuted anything.

You have no provided a credible source.

The GOD of the Scriptures doesn't take Billions of years to "speak and it stood fast."

Stop it. That has nothing to do with reality of the FACTS I posted.


You can denounce them, but it is dishonesty.

The "dishonesty" isn't with the Bible nor the narratives contained therein

It is you that has a problem with honesty, you refuse to be honest.


NO one claims the bible is dishonest, only those that interpret it poorly.

. After the flood, it was shown the scattering of the earth's population. And that, scripturally is shown to occur after the Flood.

First no global flood took place on the date you have provided, that is a FACT.

The source is that written in the Bible.

That is not a credible source


Provide a real source that civilizations had a break due to a flood

China
Egypt
Mesopotamia
Israel
Australia

I accept that recorded as happening because of GOD rather than some speculation and doubt by unbelieving mankind.

I don't care what you personally believe.

But you posted here and you were called on it, shown facts, and you were shown to be in error to the point of dishonesty.

There is no speculation here.

. Guessess, NOT fact.

Dishonesty.

Who do you think you are? You don't have the credibility to find professors to be in error

To each his own decision/choice

No I'm afraid reality does not work that way.

YOU stated a global flood happened on a specific date.

I showed you a link on archeology that showed you a civilization that existed hundreds of years before and after your flood date.

I also told you Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilizations existed for a thousand years before and after your flood date with no break in their culture. That also goes for China.

I also showed you facts regarding the age of the earth and life on this planet.

YOU have no refuted a single thing. You have not provided a single credible source.


Either you provide a source that shows a break in civilizations in Egypt, Israel, China, Mesopotamia from a flood, or bow out due to continued dishonesty.


I don't care if your dishonest with yourself. But you wont do it with me.