Genesis 2

[sincerly]

Yes the flood mythology has had a date set, and it has never been proven to have actually happened by anyone with credibility.

Yes, I know, in order to be a "credible source,(according to you), one has to have the approval of those who do not acknowledge the Creator GOD of the Bible.

However, there are those(Scholars) who do acknowledge the validity of the Scriptures and the Creator GOD attested to therein.

First there was no global flood, and second you have given no evidence about any part of these civilizations.
Stop the dishonesty.
You have not refuted anything.
You have no provided a credible source.
Stop it. That has nothing to do with reality of the FACTS I posted.
You can denounce them, but it is dishonesty.
It is you that has a problem with honesty, you refuse to be honest.
NO one claims the bible is dishonest, only those that interpret it poorly.
First no global flood took place on the date you have provided, that is a FACT.
That is not a credible source
Provide a real source that civilizations had a break due to a flood
China Egypt Mesopotamia Israel Australia
I don't care what you personally believe.
But you posted here and you were called on it, shown facts, and you were shown to be in error to the point of dishonesty.
There is no speculation here.
Dishonesty.
Who do you think you are? You don't have the credibility to find professors to be in error
No I'm afraid reality does not work that way.
YOU stated a global flood happened on a specific date.
I showed you a link on archeology that showed you a civilization that existed hundreds of years before and after your flood date.
I also told you Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilizations existed for a thousand years before and after your flood date with no break in their culture. That also goes for China.
I also showed you facts regarding the age of the earth and life on this planet.
YOU have no refuted a single thing. You have not provided a single credible source.
Either you provide a source that shows a break in civilizations in Egypt, Israel, China, Mesopotamia from a flood, or bow out due to continued dishonesty.
I don't care if your dishonest with yourself. But you wont do it with me.

You acknowledge that the Bible isn't dishonest, only the interpreters of it.
What I have posted was what it said and what is repeated in other portions of the Scriptures.
When one is discussing the Biblical Scriptures---What is "dishonest" is the denying that they are truthful/as written---and only accepting one's own bias and opinion.(personal and others).

 

[outhouse]

Yes, I know, in order to be a "credible source,(according to you), one has to have the approval of those who do not acknowledge the Creator GOD of the Bible.

.

That is dishonest.

You cannot prove any truth in your statement.


BY your words the only credible people are young earth creationist, biblical literalist.

Are ALL OTHER THEIST are liars according to you? how dare you.

---What is "dishonest" is the denying that they are truthful/as written---and only accepting one's own bias and opinion

Then tell me why there is no break in all the major civilizations around the WHOLE WORLD? around the time of your mythical flood date

 

[outhouse]

Why do 99.9% of all universities around the whole world teach the FACTS I posted?

Why are the very few apologetic schools that teach YEC looked down upon, and have no real credibility what so ever?

 

[metis]

Originally Posted by metis
With what we know today, it really doesn't make any sense to take a literalistic view, especially because taking such a view really doesn't change the morals and values taught. What difference does it really make if Adam & Eve were real people or part of the narrative as allegory? Since it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans, why not accept it as allegory, which makes more sense on what we now know, and learn and act from the lessons taught?


Previous post, "You just tossed away your Creator GOD"

Read carefully the message you gave above and if you can't understand my sentence in light of your answer-----I'll be happy to break it down.

Please do as such if you will.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Yes, I know, in order to be a "credible source,(according to you), one has to have the approval of those who do not acknowledge the Creator GOD of the Bible.

That is dishonest.

You cannot prove any truth in your statement.

BY your words the only credible people are young earth creationist, biblical literalist.

Are ALL OTHER THEIST are liars according to you? how dare you.


Then tell me why there is no break in all the major civilizations around the WHOLE WORLD? around the time of your mythical flood date

Hi outhouse, did and do you see that red "According to you". Your opinion is seen in those many posts claiming "not credible".

I have based my answers upon the Biblical Scriptures and that is what these debates are concerning. The debates are not concerning what is the opinion of "Wikipedia" or other opinions.

I have told you what the Scriptures state concerning those "civilizations" and in what relation they arose/began in regards to the Stated flood. Also, the relationship of the flood in regards to the previous Creation of all that is seen.

I did give an honest accounting of the Scriptural events.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Originally Posted by metis
With what we know today, it really doesn't make any sense to take a literalistic view, especially because taking such a view really doesn't change the morals and values taught. What difference does it really make if Adam & Eve were real people or part of the narrative as allegory? Since it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans, why not accept it as allegory, which makes more sense on what we now know, and learn and act from the lessons taught?


Previous post, "You just tossed away your Creator GOD"

Read carefully the message you gave above and if you can't understand my sentence in light of your answer-----I'll be happy to break it down.

Please do as such if you will.

Hi Metis, you asked why I made that statement----and apparently, you fail to understand by re-reading ---Therefore,

1. There is no different Creator Being that was present when the world was Created.
(literally). What I see is not imaginary/an illusion---, it is real.

2. True, the Principles upon which the Creator GOD at creation placed for HIS Created Beings to exhibit in relationship to HIMSELF and other human beings are the same today, as then.

3. The difference it makes in being literal/factual/actual OR being an allegory is obvious. An allegory leaves one without an answer to what is seen and the Biggest lack is that of a Creator GOD. Man answers to his own lusts.

4. A "hill of beans" can feed a family. An allegory feeds no one. The truths seen in that basic foundational information is the key to understanding the rest of the Redeeming process which is to unfold.

5. when that understanding is reduced to an allegory, then one has casted away any claim to there being a "Creator GOD".
Therefore, if it makes more sense to believe man's opinions---There is NO ROOM for GOD.

Believe, as you wish.

 

[outhouse]

I have based my answers upon the Biblical Scriptures

.

You have shown dishonestly while debating, you have no credibility left.




Saying the bible says so is not a credible historical source or a honest answer it is dishonest as you are factually discrediting factual statements by professional organizations.

Who do you think you are to judge all of these people and denounce their worldwide knowledge not in dispute by anyone with credibility?



There are no breaks in civilizations of around the time of your flood.

China
Australia
Israel
Mesopotamia
Egypt
India

This is fact, not opinion.

 

[outhouse]

Are you calling these people who posted facts liars?


Young Earth creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The scientific consensus, supported by a 2006 statement by 68 national and international science academies, is that it is evidence-based fact derived from observations and experiments in multiple scientific disciplines that the universe has existed for around 13.8 billion years and that the Earth was formed about 4.5 billion years ago, with life first appearing at least 2.5 billion years ago.[6]

 

[metis]

Hi Metis, you asked why I made that statement----and apparently, you fail to understand by re-reading...

---Therefore,

1. There is no different Creator Being that was present when the world was Created.
(literally). What I see is not imaginary/an illusion---, it is real.

"Allegory" does not mean or imply "illusion" or that something is just "imaginary".

2. True, the Principles upon which the Creator GOD at creation placed for HIS Created Beings to exhibit in relationship to HIMSELF and other human beings are the same today, as then.

This really doesn't deal with the issue of dealing with these accounts as allegory in any way.

3. The difference it makes in being literal/factual/actual OR being an allegory is obvious. An allegory leaves one without an answer to what is seen and the Biggest lack is that of a Creator GOD. Man answers to his own lusts.

That is absolutely false as "allegory" simply does not mean or imply that either. The issue is dealing with the creation accounts as allegory and not God.

4. A "hill of beans" can feed a family. An allegory feeds no one. The truths seen in that basic foundational information is the key to understanding the rest of the Redeeming process which is to unfold.

Actually, taking the story as just a literal story "feeds no one" since it's really what we can derive from the story that really matters in our life.

5. when that understanding is reduced to an allegory, then one has casted away any claim to there being a "Creator GOD".
Therefore, if it makes more sense to believe man's opinions---There is NO ROOM for GOD.

Absolutely false. Surveys of Christian theologians that I have seen have it that roughly 70-80% of them believe the creation accounts as being primarily allegorical, and yet you're saying that they don't believe in God? And haven't you ever been in Bible study sessions whereas different people can read the same verse or narrative and sometimes have differences of opinions?

Believe, as you wish.

I don't, but then this really isn't about me.

 

[outhouse]

Are Christians who believe in allegory wrong and not true followers of god?

 

[outhouse]

You cannot refute facts.



IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution


We agree that the following evidence-based facts about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:

•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.

•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.

•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.

•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.

The following academies have endorsed this statement
Albanian Academy of Sciences
National Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences, Argentina
Australian Academy of Science
Austrian Academy of Sciences
Bangladesh Academy of Sciences
The Royal Academies for Science and the Arts of Belgium
Academy of Sciences and Arts of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Brazilian Academy of Sciences
Bulgarian Academy of Sciences
RSC: The Academies of Arts, Humanities and Sciences of Canada
Academia Chilena de Ciencias
Chinese Academy of Sciences
Academia Sinica, China, Taiwan
Colombian Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences
Croatian Academy of Arts and Sciences
Cuban Academy of Sciences
Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic
Royal Danish Academy of Sciences and Letters
Academy of Scientific Research and Technology, Egypt
Académie des Sciences, France
Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities
The Academy of Athens, Greece
Hungarian Academy of Sciences
Indian National Science Academy
Indonesian Academy of Sciences
Academy of Sciences of the Islamic Republic of Iran
Royal Irish Academy
Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities
Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy
Science Council of Japan
Kenya National Academy of Sciences
National Academy of Sciences of the Kyrgyz Republic
Latvian Academy of Sciences
Lithuanian Academy of Sciences
Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts
Academia Mexicana de Ciencias
Mongolian Academy of Sciences
Academy of the Kingdom of Morocco
The Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences
Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand
Nigerian Academy of Sciences
Pakistan Academy of Sciences
Palestine Academy for Science and Technology
Academia Nacional de Ciencias del Peru
National Academy of Science and Technology, The Philippines
Polish Academy of Sciences
Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts
Singapore National Academy of Sciences
Slovak Academy of Sciences
Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts
Academy of Science of South Africa
Royal Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences of Spain
National Academy of Sciences, Sri Lanka
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
Council of the Swiss Scientific Academies
Academy of Sciences, Republic of Tajikistan
The Caribbean Academy of Sciences
Turkish Academy of Sciences
The Uganda National Academy of Sciences
The Royal Society, UK
US National Academy of Sciences
Uzbekistan Academy of Sciences
Academia de Ciencias Físicas, Matemáticas y Naturales de Venezuela
Zimbabwe Academy of Sciences
African Academy of Sciences
The Academy of Sciences for the Developing World (TWAS)
The Executive Board of the International Council for Science (ICSU)

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly

I have based my answers upon the Biblical Scriptures

You have shown dishonestly while debating, you have no credibility left.

The Creator of ALL things would say that I have correctly reported The Facts that was recorded Scripturally.

Saying the bible says so is not a credible historical source or a honest answer it is dishonest as you are factually discrediting factual statements by professional organizations.

Yes, I have acknowledged that such "organizations/Scholars" would label the Bible as "not a credible source"---But that doesn't vadidate the claim.

Who do you think you are to judge all of these people and denounce their worldwide knowledge not in dispute by anyone with credibility?

I'm just one of many who are among the "Go ye and teach...the whatsoever I have told you."

There are no breaks in civilizations of around the time of your flood. China Australia Israel Mesopotamia Egypt India
This is fact, not opinion.

That has been answered Scripturally and it is not fact, but assumption.

 

[sincerly]

Are you calling these people who posted facts liars?


Young Earth creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The scientific consensus, supported by a 2006 statement by 68 national and international science academies, is that it is evidence-based fact derived from observations and experiments in multiple scientific disciplines that the universe has existed for around 13.8 billion years and that the Earth was formed about 4.5 billion years ago, with life first appearing at least 2.5 billion years ago.[6]

As I have previously stated, Scripturally, the one who is factual is denied by those 68 sources in their conclusions.

 

[sincerly]

"Allegory" does not mean or imply "illusion" or that something is just "imaginary".

This really doesn't deal with the issue of dealing with these accounts as allegory in any way.

That is absolutely false as "allegory" simply does not mean or imply that either. The issue is dealing with the creation accounts as allegory and not God.

Actually, taking the story as just a literal story "feeds no one" since it's really what we can derive from the story that really matters in our life.

Absolutely false. Surveys of Christian theologians that I have seen have it that roughly 70-80% of them believe the creation accounts as being primarily allegorical, and yet you're saying that they don't believe in God? And haven't you ever been in Bible study sessions whereas different people can read the same verse or narrative and sometimes have differences of opinions?

I don't, but then this really isn't about me.

All that GOD created was not Allegory/symbolism(the use of symboles)---It was all real. Real persons were given dominion over all of GOD'S Creation. Real persons communicated with a Real GOD and Real people disobeyed a Real Creator and that set up a real Plan of Redemption.

Therefore, my friend, since you claim the Creation was an allegory...so is the GOD that claimed to produce it.

 

[sincerly]

You cannot refute facts.



IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution


We agree that the following evidence-based facts about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:

•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.

•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.

•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.

•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.

The following academies have endorsed this statement
Albanian Academy of Sciences
National Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences, Argentina
Australian Academy of Science
Austrian Academy of Sciences
Bangladesh Academy of Sciences
The Royal Academies for Science and the Arts of Belgium
Academy of Sciences and Arts of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Brazilian Academy of Sciences
Bulgarian Academy of Sciences
RSC: The Academies of Arts, Humanities and Sciences of Canada
Academia Chilena de Ciencias
Chinese Academy of Sciences
Academia Sinica, China, Taiwan
Colombian Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences
Croatian Academy of Arts and Sciences
Cuban Academy of Sciences
Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic
Royal Danish Academy of Sciences and Letters
Academy of Scientific Research and Technology, Egypt
Académie des Sciences, France
Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities
The Academy of Athens, Greece
Hungarian Academy of Sciences
Indian National Science Academy
Indonesian Academy of Sciences
Academy of Sciences of the Islamic Republic of Iran
Royal Irish Academy
Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities
Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy
Science Council of Japan
Kenya National Academy of Sciences
National Academy of Sciences of the Kyrgyz Republic
Latvian Academy of Sciences
Lithuanian Academy of Sciences
Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts
Academia Mexicana de Ciencias
Mongolian Academy of Sciences
Academy of the Kingdom of Morocco
The Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences
Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand
Nigerian Academy of Sciences
Pakistan Academy of Sciences
Palestine Academy for Science and Technology
Academia Nacional de Ciencias del Peru
National Academy of Science and Technology, The Philippines
Polish Academy of Sciences
Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts
Singapore National Academy of Sciences
Slovak Academy of Sciences
Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts
Academy of Science of South Africa
Royal Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences of Spain
National Academy of Sciences, Sri Lanka
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
Council of the Swiss Scientific Academies
Academy of Sciences, Republic of Tajikistan
The Caribbean Academy of Sciences
Turkish Academy of Sciences
The Uganda National Academy of Sciences
The Royal Society, UK
US National Academy of Sciences
Uzbekistan Academy of Sciences
Academia de Ciencias Físicas, Matemáticas y Naturales de Venezuela
Zimbabwe Academy of Sciences
African Academy of Sciences
The Academy of Sciences for the Developing World (TWAS)
The Executive Board of the International Council for Science (ICSU)

And the denial of there being a Creator GOD is validated and continues.

A witness unto all the world...and then shall the end come. Matt.24:14

 

[outhouse]

Your circular reasoning is not credible and is dishonest.

Your making a statement that the bible is correct because YOU say it is.


The bible is not a credible history book, and you have not given any evidence that it is, none at all

 

[outhouse]

As I have previously stated, Scripturally, the one who is factual is denied by those 68 sources in their conclusions.

Ridiculous.

Your statements make you a extreme fundamentalist.


You are NO ONE to tell people you don't know, that they deny their deity, because they follow reason, education and knowledge and common sense.


You are embarrassing good theist everywhere

 

[metis]

All that GOD created was not Allegory/symbolism(the use of symboles)---It was all real. Real persons were given dominion over all of GOD'S Creation. Real persons communicated with a Real GOD and Real people disobeyed a Real Creator and that set up a real Plan of Redemption.

Therefore, my friend, since you claim the Creation was an allegory...so is the GOD that claimed to produce it.

You misunderstand what "allegory" means in this context, as it does not state or imply that God didn't create all. So, it's not "Creation" that's an allegory, but the creation accounts that are viewed by most Christians and Jews as being allegorical.

 

[outhouse]

Some people are having a definition problem associated with reality.

Fact | Define Fact at Dictionary.com

fact [fakt] Show IPA


noun

1.

something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.


2.

something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.


Fact is not something you can debate with personal opinions, or it would be called "opinion" not fact.

 

[sincerly]

Here is my answer to a lengthy document concerning:

A signed statement by 68 different organizations to the effect that the Evolution theory was correct.

And the denial of there being a Creator GOD is validated and continues.

A witness unto all the world...and then shall the end come. Matt.24:14

Your circular reasoning is not credible and is dishonest.

Your making a statement that the bible is correct because YOU say it is.


The bible is not a credible history book, and you have not given any evidence that it is, none at all

Yes, it is circular reasoning-----The Scriptures started with GOD in making all things and in honesty does attest to the validity of such---also, the reality is established as well.

No!, The Bible is true not because I make that claim, but because The GOD that Created all things sent Messages to trusted persons to record the validity of the Happenings that have occurred.