Genesis 2

[sincerly]

Ah so it is not that you are ignorant of the material because you have not studied it, you have willingly chosen to be ignorant of the material.

So you must certainly believe that the Sun revolves around the earth?

Your absurdity has been noted.

 

[sincerly]

So how did God create Electromagnetism?

That was produced by man.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Your absurdity has been noted.

The bible states that Joshua held his hands up and the Sun did not move from the sky for the entire day. This is only possible IF and Only If the Sun was not stationary. Being that man states that Sun is stationary and that it is Planets that Orbit Stars. It must stand Man is wrong based on your past comment that "things expressed by man contrary to HIS revealed word are incorrect". So you must then believe that the earth is the center of the galaxy and that the Sun moves in orbit (mind you stars do move due to gravity, but our planets gravity is not enough to cause an orbit). One or the other possible. Even furthermore you must also believe that this day actually happened and so there must be a record of it as well throughout the world correct?

You must also believe that stars are small as revelations states that a star fell from heaven into water and made it bitter. Even if this is "imagery" you would indeed believe that stars are smaller than planets. Man says this is not true, in fact the closest start to us is light years away (according to man), so man must be wrong about the size of stars as it is again "HIS revealed words"?

Am I being absurd in taking your statements to the conclusions that they should carry?

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

That was produced by man.

So Man produced this?

 

[outhouse]

That was produced by man.

Embarrassing is what this is.


It is a natural occuring force, one that keeps radiation from baking you.

 

[gnostic]

So how did God create Electromagnetism?

That was produced by man.

Actually all forms of electromagnetism CAN and DOES occur naturally...but man can produce them too, and manipulate and harness these waves or radiation to do what they intend to do.

So you are only partly right, sincerly.

Our star, the Sun itself produced these electromagnetism, from visible light (in all their colorful spectrum), to ultraviolet, X-ray and gamma ray at one end, and infrared, microwaves and radio waves at the other end.

Gamma ray, obviously occur naturally from decay of atomic nuclei, but they also can be produced by lightning. Lightning can also produce radio waves. Those huge radio telescopes, scientists used detect all sorts of electromagnetism outside of the earth.

Microwave can also occur naturally, and out in deep space. The cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR), first detected by astronomers in 1964, is one of the evidences that validated the Big Bang theory as scientific theory. The WMAP satellite, sent out by NASA, is continuously monitoring the CMBR.

To say that electromagnetism is only produced by man, is ignoring the other half of the equation, where it can occur naturally.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Actually all forms of electromagnetism CAN and DOES occur naturally...but man can produce them too, and manipulate and harness these waves or radiation to do what they intend to do.

So you are only partly right, sincerly.

Our star, the Sun itself produced these electromagnetism, from visible light (in all their colorful spectrum), to ultraviolet, X-ray and gamma ray at one end, and infrared, microwaves and radio waves at the other end.

Gamma ray, obviously occur naturally from decay of atomic nuclei, but they also can be produced by lightning. Lightning can also produce radio waves. Those huge radio telescopes, scientists used detect all sorts of electromagnetism outside of the earth.

Microwave can also occur naturally, and out in deep space. The cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR), first detected by astronomers in 1964, is one of the evidences that validated the Big Bang theory as scientific theory. The WMAP satellite, sent out by NASA, is continuously monitoring the CMBR.

To say that electromagnetism is only produced by man, is ignoring the other half of the equation, where it can occur naturally.

We (humans) even produce almost all the waves in the electromagnetic spectrum

 

[sincerly]

The bible states that Joshua held his hands up and the Sun did not move from the sky for the entire day. This is only possible IF and Only If the Sun was not stationary. Being that man states that Sun is stationary and that it is Planets that Orbit Stars. It must stand Man is wrong based on your past comment that "things expressed by man contrary to HIS revealed word are incorrect". So you must then believe that the earth is the center of the galaxy and that the Sun moves in orbit (mind you stars do move due to gravity, but our planets gravity is not enough to cause an orbit). One or the other possible. Even furthermore you must also believe that this day actually happened and so there must be a record of it as well throughout the world correct?

You must also believe that stars are small as revelations states that a star fell from heaven into water and made it bitter. Even if this is "imagery" you would indeed believe that stars are smaller than planets. Man says this is not true, in fact the closest start to us is light years away (according to man), so man must be wrong about the size of stars as it is again "HIS revealed words"?

Am I being absurd in taking your statements to the conclusions that they should carry?

Hi FM, You can not tell me what I Believe based upon your own interpretation and beliefs. And you need to get your own facts of the Scriptures corrected.
Ex.17:9-12 Is Moses hands being held up by Aaron and Hur while Joshua "discomforted Amalek" until the going down of the sun.
Possibly you were thinking of Hezekiah and the sundial shadow going back ten degrees??(2Kings20:8-11)
I worship the same GOD who brought those things to pass. With HIM---as HE told Abraham, "Nothing is impossible". Apparently, you do not believe HIM.

As far as Rev.8:10-11, that "star" was symbolic as the context of the "sounding Angel trumpets" indicate. As Daniel 2:41-44 prophesied, Rev.8+9 is the breaking up of the Roman Empire and the establishing of the Kingdom of GOD.

Things are recorded in prophetic history--as Amos3:7 testifies. "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. "

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Hi FM, You can not tell me what I Believe based upon your own interpretation and beliefs. And you need to get your own facts of the Scriptures corrected.
Ex.17:9-12 Is Moses hands being held up by Aaron and Hur while Joshua "discomforted Amalek" until the going down of the sun.
Possibly you were thinking of Hezekiah and the sundial shadow going back ten degrees??(2Kings20:8-11)
I worship the same GOD who brought those things to pass. With HIM---as HE told Abraham, "Nothing is impossible". Apparently, you do not believe HIM.

As far as Rev.8:10-11, that "star" was symbolic as the context of the "sounding Angel trumpets" indicate. As Daniel 2:41-44 prophesied, Rev.8+9 is the breaking up of the Roman Empire and the establishing of the Kingdom of GOD.

Things are recorded in prophetic history--as Amos3:7 testifies. "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. "

I did not tell you what you believed I asked because that is where the conclusion would lead given your distrust of man.

I apologize you are correct it was moses raising his hand, Joshua only commanded the sun to stand still and the moon to stand still.

13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

It clearly says that the Sun stood still. This goes against what man has said "that the earth is what goes around the sun". So are you saying that the Sun does indeed move around the earth?

Oh I believe in God, I don't see why that is your concern though, I'm more interested in your ignorance of the scientific advancement and the why. As you had said it is because you believe in Scripture then you must agree that Scripture takes the place of all scientific knowledge. So you do believe in a firmament as well? That the sky is a dome held up as described in Genesis?

As for revelation I do believe that it is to be symbolic, but the individual who wrote it certainly believes that stars are small and can fall onto a planet. Scientific knowledge of gravity and physics makes these two things impossible (at least currently perhaps we will find a star smaller than a planet? I don't wager it impossible though unlikely). But you must also agree on those conditions since the author is writing of scripture and even if it is symoblic in his mind the star is small and that was the agreed upon knowledge.

Might I also inquire how atoms where created and when? How about gravity when was it created? Or how about black holes? Or Neutron Stars? Or how about the weak and strong force? When did God create those in Genesis?

 

[sincerly]

Oh I believe in God, I don't see why that is your concern though, I'm more interested in your ignorance of the scientific advancement and the why. As you had said it is because you believe in Scripture then you must agree that Scripture takes the place of all scientific knowledge. So you do believe in a firmament as well? That the sky is a dome held up as described in Genesis?

Hi FM, maybe I can send this (shorter)one.
For the same reasoning you inquired about my education, but where you were coming from "faith wise".

Incorrect, Scripture comes into play when mankind goes counter to GOD'S stated messages.

Yes, there is a "Firmament"="raqiya". That is where the clouds which hold the water are. It is,also, where the birds fly, and where the sun , moon and stars are.

As for revelation I do believe that it is to be symbolic, but the individual who wrote it certainly believes that stars are small and can fall onto a planet. Scientific knowledge of gravity and physics makes these two things impossible (at least currently perhaps we will find a star smaller than a planet? I don't wager it impossible though unlikely). But you must also agree on those conditions since the author is writing of scripture and even if it is symoblic in his mind the star is small and that was the agreed upon knowledge.

Yes, there is a lot of symbolism in Revelations.

The author was Jesus to an Angel to give to John---and HE is well aware of "all things".
Concerning "stars" they "symbolically can be indentified as context and prophetic explains as: Rev.1:20 explains,"The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. "---not big cosmic stars, but those in charge of the churches which are presently to be presented(also, symbolically).

Might I also inquire how atoms where created and when? How about gravity when was it created? Or how about black holes? Or Neutron Stars? Or how about the weak and strong force? When did God create those in Genesis?

FM, MY GOD'S hand are not shortened or bound by the inadequaties of Mankind.
Job 38 through 42:13 asks "Where where you?" when HE put all yhing in their place and order.
And that included just the right amount of "gases" for animal life to breath. And the Electrical to control the functions of the body. As previously stated. David not knowing correctly stated, Ps.139:14, "I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well." .

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Hi FM, maybe I can send this (shorter)one.
For the same reasoning you inquired about my education, but where you were coming from "faith wise".

Incorrect, Scripture comes into play when mankind goes counter to GOD'S stated messages.

Yes, there is a "Firmament"="raqiya". That is where the clouds which hold the water are. It is,also, where the birds fly, and where the sun , moon and stars are.

So you believe that the moon and sun hang in the sky and that birds can fly to them? Does that not go against what science says? Where the sun is 92,960,000 miles from the earth? You are also aware that the definition of Firmament also holds it as solid though some have argued for a liquid one. Regardless though it does not match up with scientific knowledge.

However Gods word clearly states that Joshua held the Sun and Moon in place. The moon sure as it does rotate around the earth. However it is the earth that rotates around the sun, so how could the Sun "hold still" or was it supposed to say that the "earth held still" if so why is there no other recording of such an odd day in history? As well you have not answered do you believe in a Geocentric model of the galaxy?

Yes, there is a lot of symbolism in Revelations.

The author was Jesus to an Angel to give to John---and HE is well aware of "all things".
Concerning "stars" they "symbolically can be indentified as context and prophetic explains as: Rev.1:20 explains,"The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. "---not big cosmic stars, but those in charge of the churches which are presently to be presented(also, symbolically).

I am aware of the symbolism, however that is not what I am talking about. The author is using stars as a symbol and declares that a star feel out of the sky and into the water and it was made bitter. Also makes a declaration that the stars fell out of the sky unto the earth. Even if it is symbolism, it is still incorrect as we now know that stars are actually several times the size of the earth and any collision between earth and any other large cosmic body would result in the earths destruction due to the gravitational pull. Even if it is symbolism using stars is incorrect, asteroid, meteors, even a moon would have been correct.

Genesis also states that the moon was the lesser light for the night, but we know the moon only reflects the light of the sun and produces no light itself. Do you think this is incorrect and faulty?

FM, MY GOD'S hand are not shortened or bound by the inadequaties of Mankind.
Job 38 through 42:13 asks "Where where you?" when HE put all yhing in their place and order.
And that included just the right amount of "gases" for animal life to breath. And the Electrical to control the functions of the body. As previously stated. David not knowing correctly stated, Ps.139:14, "I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well." .

This is all well and good, but given that it is not written in the bible and indeed our understanding of life "gases" as you put it and its interaction with organic and inorganic materials run very contrary to what is written scripturally. I.e. the age of the earth, the theory of evolution, even the formation of blackholes which would not fit in the idea of a firmament. So do you consider all recent studies of cosmology, physics, chemistry, and biology to be incorrect?

 

[metis]

Hi metis, When it comes to some topics, Wikipedia is very biased and the articles within its scope/printing are "edited" to reflect certain accepted criteria---anything that places a Creator GOD in favorable understanding is dismissed as "narrative mythology"/"symbolic narrative".

Now you are simply lying. First of all, it surprises me not that you would dismiss Wikipedia as a source because you simply do not want to believe in evolution. If you had doubts about some aspects of what is found there, and were being honest about this, there are links to studies whereas where their information comes from. There are also many other sites to choose from that are truly scientific sites that don't put forth a fundamentalist distortion, so all you would have to do is to Google "evolution". However, you're not at all likely to do that since you really don't want to deal with the facts.

Secondly, here's the Wikipedia coverage of "God", so show us where it takes an atheistic bias: God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The reality is that it covers numerous viewpoints without taking a position one way or another, so again you're simply not telling the truth.

You have witnessed to your beliefs as grounded in the assumptions made by man. I continue to witness to what is written in those Scriptural pages.

Eventually, those Scriptures inform us that we shall know the Truth of what the fact of the matter is----.Personally,---I prefer the Scriptural believers outcome.

But you don't even recognize the fact that your viewpoint is actually "an assumption made by man". IOW, you have drawn your own human "assumptions", so you are doing the exact same thing as anyone else here is doing.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Hi FM, You can not tell me what I Believe based upon your own interpretation and beliefs.......I worship the same GOD who brought those things to pass.
With HIM---as HE told Abraham, "Nothing is impossible". Apparently, you do not believe HIM.

As far as Rev.8:10-11, that "star" was symbolic as the context of the "sounding Angel trumpets" indicate. As Daniel 2:41-44 prophesied, Rev.8+9 is the breaking up of the Roman Empire and the establishing of the Kingdom of GOD.

Things are recorded in prophetic history--as Amos3:7 testifies. "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. "

So you believe that the moon and sun hang in the sky and that birds can fly to them?

Hi FM, The Scriptures do support the sun and moon being in the "firmament"Gen.1:14-15 and the created fowl(birds) in the "firmament above the earth(vs.20)
It is your unscriptural conclusion that "birds can fly to them". Not Mine or the Scriptures.

Does that not go against what science says? Where the sun is 92,960,000 miles from the earth? You are also aware that the definition of Firmament also holds it as solid though some have argued for a liquid one. Regardless though it does not match up with scientific knowledge.

"considered by Hebrews as solid"--- that is man and NOT Scriptural/GOD didn't indicate such in the recording of Genesis.
Science does acknowledge that the sun, moon and stars are in the stellar firmament/heavens and that birds do fly above the earth.

However Gods word clearly states that Joshua held the Sun and Moon in place. The moon sure as it does rotate around the earth. However it is the earth that rotates around the sun, so how could the Sun "hold still" or was it supposed to say that the "earth held still" if so why is there no other recording of such an odd day in history? As well you have not answered do you believe in a Geocentric model of the galaxy?

NO, It wasn't Joshua who "held", but IT was GOD who harkened to the request of Joshua and (Joshua 10:13-14),"So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel. " vs.11 the LORD rained hailstones upon them(Amorites---killing more than died from swords.)
The waters of the Sea parted for the Israelites to cross upon dry ground(---by the Power of GOD and the Sun "hastened" not to set/end the day by the power of the Same GOD.

I am aware of the symbolism, however that is not what I am talking about. The author is using stars as a symbol and declares that a star feel out of the sky and into the water and it was made bitter. Also makes a declaration that the stars fell out of the sky unto the earth. Even if it is symbolism, it is still incorrect as we now know that stars are actually several times the size of the earth and any collision between earth and any other large cosmic body would result in the earths destruction due to the gravitational pull. Even if it is symbolism using stars is incorrect, asteroid, meteors, even a moon would have been correct.

Now you are trying to tell GOD how to use symbolism; and why HE is wrong in doing so.

Genesis also states that the moon was the lesser light for the night, but we know the moon only reflects the light of the sun and produces no light itself. Do you think this is incorrect and faulty?

It is your assessment of the scriptures which is faulty. That created "lesser light" was made to reflect the light produced by the sun----just as the "stars" do.(Gen.1:14-15.)

This is all well and good, but given that it is not written in the bible and indeed our understanding of life "gases" as you put it and its interaction with organic and inorganic materials run very contrary to what is written scripturally. I.e. the age of the earth, the theory of evolution, even the formation of blackholes which would not fit in the idea of a firmament. So do you consider all recent studies of cosmology, physics, chemistry, and biology to be incorrect?

FM, Mankind's knowledge has been increased, but mankind hasn't proven anything which disproves that the Creator GOD of all things did not make/create what is seen.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Hi FM, You can not tell me what I Believe based upon your own interpretation and beliefs.......I worship the same GOD who brought those things to pass.
With HIM---as HE told Abraham, "Nothing is impossible". Apparently, you do not believe HIM.

As far as Rev.8:10-11, that "star" was symbolic as the context of the "sounding Angel trumpets" indicate. As Daniel 2:41-44 prophesied, Rev.8+9 is the breaking up of the Roman Empire and the establishing of the Kingdom of GOD.

Things are recorded in prophetic history--as Amos3:7 testifies. "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. "



Hi FM, The Scriptures do support the sun and moon being in the "firmament"Gen.1:14-15 and the created fowl(birds) in the "firmament above the earth(vs.20)
It is your unscriptural conclusion that "birds can fly to them". Not Mine or the Scriptures.



"considered by Hebrews as solid"--- that is man and NOT Scriptural/GOD didn't indicate such in the recording of Genesis.
Science does acknowledge that the sun, moon and stars are in the stellar firmament/heavens and that birds do fly above the earth.



NO, It wasn't Joshua who "held", but IT was GOD who harkened to the request of Joshua and (Joshua 10:13-14),"So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel. " vs.11 the LORD rained hailstones upon them(Amorites---killing more than died from swords.)
The waters of the Sea parted for the Israelites to cross upon dry ground(---by the Power of GOD and the Sun "hastened" not to set/end the day by the power of the Same GOD.



Now you are trying to tell GOD how to use symbolism; and why HE is wrong in doing so.



It is your assessment of the scriptures which is faulty. That created "lesser light" was made to reflect the light produced by the sun----just as the "stars" do.(Gen.1:14-15.)



FM, Mankind's knowledge has been increased, but mankind hasn't proven anything which disproves that the Creator GOD of all things did not make/create what is seen.

You seem to still be dodging the questions.

Joshua held his hand up and the Sun stayed in place. How would the Sun which is not moving around the earth stay in place?

I'm not telling God how to use Symbolism, I'm talking about the writer of revelation he obviously believed Stars whether being used symbolically or not where small enough to fall unto the earth.

What is the Firmament? Birds still fly on the earth. There are five atmospheric layers on the earth Birds fly in the Troposphere. The Sun and Moon reside way further beyond where the waters are held and even beyond two other distinct planets. Venus and Mercury (which were at a point in time considered stars).

The word "firmament" is used to translate raqia, or raqiya` ( רקי&#1506, a word used in Biblical Hebrew. The connotation of firmness conveyed by the Vulgate's firmamentum is consistent with that of stereoma, the Greek word used in the Septuagint, an earlier translation. The notion of solidity is advanced explicitly in several biblical passages.[4]

The original word raqia is derived from the root raqa ( רק&#1506, meaning "to beat or spread out", e.g., the process of making a dish by hammering thin a lump of metal.[3][5] Raqa adopted the meaning "to make firm or solid" in Syriac, a major dialect of Aramaic (the vernacular of Jesus) and close cognate of Hebrew.[3]

So are you saying that space is solid if you are using firmament that is what you are addressing. Unless you are going to go with since the scripture is "not specific" on the matter that it is incorrect? I'm curious which way you would like to go with this?

You say that birds were created in the firmament above the earth, are you saying that there are two different firmaments?

Science does not believe in a firmaments. Birds fly on the earth, clouds are located on earth:

That's a picture of the layers of the atmosphere of the earth. So are you saying that each one is a firmament? So since Mercury and Venus also have atmosphere's do they have firmaments as well?

Also it does not say that the lesser light reflects the light of the Sun

it says in chapter 16 which I notice that you did not post:

And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

God created two great lights, not one great light that would shine through for the others but two great ones. A greater light to rule the day (the sun) a less light to rule the night (the moon), and then he also made the stars.

So do you believe that the moon produces its own light? Or is there a way around that? What do you mean just as the stars do? Are you saying they produce their own lights? Or that they reflect the light of the sun? What about stars that are red shifted?

I don't remember saying that science has proven that the creator God has not produced all things.

I am interested however in whether or not you are in agreement with scientific discoveries of Cosmology, Astrology, Biology, and Quantum Physics and all the studies in between?

When did the Dinosaurs exist and when did they go extinct and why? They are not mentioned in the Bible oddly enough, but science says that they went extinct 65 million years ago. Are you saying that man has been around 65 millions years ago as well? Because how would death have existed in the world for dinosaurs to have gone extinct if we had not yet sinned?

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Hi metis, When it comes to some topics, Wikipedia is very biased and the articles within its scope/printing are "edited" to reflect certain accepted criteria--anything that places a Creator GOD in favorable understanding is dismissed as "narrative mythology"/"symbolic narrative".

Now you are simply lying. First of all, it surprises me not that you would dismiss Wikipedia as a source because you simply do not want to believe in evolution. If you had doubts about some aspects of what is found there, and were being honest about this, there are links to studies whereas where their information comes from. There are also many other sites to choose from that are truly scientific sites that don't put forth a fundamentalist distortion, so all you would have to do is to Google "evolution". However, you're not at all likely to do that since you really don't want to deal with the facts.

Hi Metis, be careful, calling someone a liar is against the Rules. Denounce my posts all you please.
I highlighted the reasons why I find the Wikipedia to be biased. It isn't a source that isn't controlled by "criteria" that is totally neutral in "opinion/understanding/etc."
It is a published source of information with a cadre of "editors" whose opinions run the same gamut as is seen in these forums.

Secondly, here's the Wikipedia coverage of "God", so show us where it takes an atheistic bias: God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The reality is that it covers numerous viewpoints without taking a position one way or another, so again you're simply not telling the truth.

Under the "TALK" link, you will find divergent of opinions on these controversial GOD/Religion subjects. and they will refer back to the what is allowable as a "source" for printable as fact material----The Scriptures isn't such for Wikipedia.
A few posts back you acknowledged that "so called facts" associated with the "componets" of Evloution have, indeed, NOT been Proven. Are you reversing that conclusion now?

But you don't even recognize the fact that your viewpoint is actually "an assumption made by man". IOW, you have drawn your own human "assumptions", so you are doing the exact same thing as anyone else here is doing.

"My Viewpoint?" I try to give at least two verses of Scripture as the answers in the posts I present. Therefore, it is the answer presented to mankind via the inspired prophets "FROM GOD".

 

[metis]

Hi Metis, be careful, calling someone a liar is against the Rules. Denounce my posts all you please.

Again, you are simply being "disingenuous" (do you like that term better?) as I did not call you a "liar" but said you were "lying", and I would have hoped that you could distinguish between the two. One is an action and the other labels the entire person, the latter of which I simply do not do.

A few posts back you acknowledged that "so called facts" associated with the "componets" of Evloution have, indeed, NOT been Proven. Are you reversing that conclusion now?

Some have and some haven't because there are myriads of hypotheses involved, although we frankly don't like to use the word "proven" since it seemingly slams the door on reaching for further evidence.

"My Viewpoint?" I try to give at least two verses of Scripture as the answers in the posts I present. Therefore, it is the answer presented to mankind via the inspired prophets "FROM GOD".

You are not citing the prophets but merely your interpretation of what is written-- and there's potentially a vast difference between the two. It is virtually impossible to always know with absolute certainty what a person may really be saying because we simply cannot pick anyone's brain that accurately, plus language is simply not a perfect medium. This is one of the reasons why interpretation is not a finite art.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Hi Metis, be careful, calling someone a liar is against the Rules. Denounce my posts all you please.

Again, you are simply being "disingenuous" (do you like that term better?) as I did not call you a "liar" but said you were "lying", and I would have hoped that you could distinguish between the two. One is an action and the other labels the entire person, the latter of which I simply do not do.

Hi Metis, the Rule that falls under concerns ad hominem remarks; therefore, the attack is still against me("you are") rather than my posts.
And the language used "lying" implies because of "lying" one is a "liar".
And "disingenuous"is just another word which attacks the Character and could be used as synonymous to liar.

Originally Posted by sincerly A few posts back you acknowledged that "so called facts" associated with the "componets" of Evloution have, indeed, NOT been Proven. Are you reversing that conclusion now?

Some have and some haven't because there are myriads of hypotheses involved, although we frankly don't like to use the word "proven" since it seemingly slams the door on reaching for further evidence.

Since we do not want to close any doors to further evidence, the fundamental question is Has mankind firmly established, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the earth and "heavens" were the result of that "BB theory"??Or is it in that group of "not proven" "components"??

Originally Posted by sincerly "My Viewpoint?" I try to give at least two verses of Scripture as the answers in the posts I present. Therefore, it is the answer presented to mankind via the inspired prophets "FROM GOD".

You are not citing the prophets but merely your interpretation of what is written-- and there's potentially a vast difference between the two. It is virtually impossible to always know with absolute certainty what a person may really be saying because we simply cannot pick anyone's brain that accurately, plus language is simply not a perfect medium. This is one of the reasons why interpretation is not a finite art.

Metis, I didn't write any of the Bible. When I copy excerpts from the Scriptures, that isn't my interpretatin, but the writer whom GOD selected to record that message. And those messages were not hidden from the intended recipients. They were given and recorded for a purpose----and first of all to be understood--and for appropiate action to be rendered.
Therefore, My copied and posted Scriptures are answers from the Creator GOD concerning the questions derived from the Bible and have been contradicted by mankind.
Jer.17:9, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? "
Human Beings fall into that acategory---I prefer to rely upon the Recorded Scriptures for TRUTH.

 

[outhouse]

the fundamental question is Has mankind firmly established, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the earth and "heavens" were the result of that "BB theory"??

.

Yes

So much so it is not in question by anyone who is credible.

 

[sincerly]

You seem to still be dodging the questions.

Joshua held his hand up and the Sun stayed in place. How would the Sun which is not moving around the earth stay in place?

Hi FM, To use your "seem", for better than 80 years when I observe the Earth in the morning and throughout the day, the earth I'm standing upon doesn't appear to be moving. It is my observation that in Joshua's day it was the same---as is recorded, """and hasted not to go down about a whole day.""" Yet at any hour later in the day the Sun is higher in the sky and arcs to the western horizon.

Much was accomplished during that time frame and it was the Creator GOD'S doing that slowed the setting of the sun to appear as stopping.
In my life-time, I have had a few days that seemed to drag on for a extended period of time. And when one's enemies are absorbing one's attention, who can watch the sundial??

I'm not telling God how to use Symbolism, I'm talking about the writer of revelation he obviously believed Stars whether being used symbolically or not where small enough to fall unto the earth.

FM, 2000 years ago, when John was given the Prophecies and the symbolism seen in the Revelation, Did he know the actual size of anything? The expanse of the Roman Empire was measured not in miles----,but by days to travel(whether by foot, beast, or vessel.)

In the breakup of the Roman Empire, that "falling star" was in the region occupied by those waters. That "falling star" was symbolic of the army which caused that portion of the Empire to be destroyed. That portion of the prophecies is fulfilled.

What is the Firmament? Birds still fly on the earth. There are five atmospheric layers on the earth Birds fly in the Troposphere. The Sun and Moon reside way further beyond where the waters are held and even beyond two other distinct planets. Venus and Mercury (which were at a point in time considered stars).

The word "firmament" is used to translate raqia, or raqiya` ( רקי&#1506, a word used in Biblical Hebrew. The connotation of firmness conveyed by the Vulgate's firmamentum is consistent with that of stereoma, the Greek word used in the Septuagint, an earlier translation. The notion of solidity is advanced explicitly in several biblical passages.[4]

The original word raqia is derived from the root raqa ( רק&#1506, meaning "to beat or spread out", e.g., the process of making a dish by hammering thin a lump of metal.[3][5] Raqa adopted the meaning "to make firm or solid" in Syriac, a major dialect of Aramaic (the vernacular of Jesus) and close cognate of Hebrew.[3]

So are you saying that space is solid if you are using firmament that is what you are addressing. Unless you are going to go with since the scripture is "not specific" on the matter that it is incorrect? I'm curious which way you would like to go with this?

FM, """"The original word raqia is derived from the root raqa ( רק&#1506, meaning "to beat or spread out", """"" and that is what the Creator did---HE spread out the enveloping earth's "firmament"/atmosphere and heavens. and it was of the same type of material throughout that protecting environment.

You say that birds were created in the firmament above the earth, are you saying that there are two different firmaments?

Science does not believe in a firmaments. Birds fly on the earth, clouds are located on earth:

No! the Scriptures indicate that all things were created out of the dust of the Earth as well---they fly in the air above the earth.

That's a picture of the layers of the atmosphere of the earth. So are you saying that each one is a firmament? So since Mercury and Venus also have atmosphere's do they have firmaments as well?

FM, That is the nomenclature in use today.
I'm relating what the Scriptures revealed and was recorded in Genesis 1+2.

Also it does not say that the lesser light reflects the light of the Sun
it says in chapter 16 which I notice that you did not post:
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

God created two great lights, not one great light that would shine through for the others but two great ones. A greater light to rule the day (the sun) a less light to rule the night (the moon), and then he also made the stars.

So do you believe that the moon produces its own light? Or is there a way around that? What do you mean just as the stars do? Are you saying they produce their own lights? Or that they reflect the light of the sun? What about stars that are red shifted?

I don't remember saying that science has proven that the creator God has not produced all things.

My GOD is capable of producing all that is ascribed to HIS Creating.
Because all the details were not reported in those brief chapters of Genesis to your satisfaction---doesn't mean they didn't occur as indicated----"HE SPOKE AND IT STOOD FAST."
GOD, also, was aware that the Moon was lesser because it reflected the light from the Sun. But is does give some light at night. It was used to because of its orbit and reflection to denote Months---the "new moon". Yes, GOD Knew what HE was doing in all HIS creative ways and means.

I am interested however in whether or not you are in agreement with scientific discoveries of Cosmology, Astrology, Biology, and Quantum Physics and all the studies in between?

ALL that "Science has discovered in those disciplines"(and others) was placed there by GOD and reveal HIS CREATIVE POWER. Rev.14:6-7, "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

When did the Dinosaurs exist and when did they go extinct and why? They are not mentioned in the Bible oddly enough, but science says that they went extinct 65 million years ago. Are you saying that man has been around 65 millions years ago as well? Because how would death have existed in the world for dinosaurs to have gone extinct if we had not yet sinned?

FM, You are correct, Dinosaurs are not mentioned in the BIBLE; BUT, all things GOD wanted to Create was finished upon the sixth day of Creation.
When that ARK came to rest, and the animals were released upon the earth, they were given "fear" of mankind. Did GOD see/know that group of animals as being/would be detrimental to Mankind and they were not placed in the Ark??
Neither do I seen any "weapons" recorded.

 

[sincerly]

Yes

So much so it is not in question by anyone who is credible.

That is your belief, but there are many of the world's population who see it as false.