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Genesis 2

Thief

Rogue Theologian
You said: "it's no longer theory and moves to fact or 'law'."

That's something that can't happen because scientific theory cannot, I repeat, cannot become a scientific law. A theory is a structure containing facts, reasoning, and laws. For a theory to become a law it would have to be downgraded radically and converted to a different category. It's like saying "the cat is no longer an animal and moves to texting or clothing stickers." Theory, law, fact, have different names and mean different things because they are different things in science. You should know this.

Well let's see.....
Can we say that Man is a divergence of the previous item?......yes.
(supporting evolution)

Can we say Man leans to belief of Something Greater?....yes.
And Man seems to think of himself as the handiwork of that Something Greater?...yes.

Believing the above as fact...is not for everyone.
But I think it is most remarkable how the details of Genesis have so much resemblance to a operation/laboratory kind of event.
And the details bear SHARP resemblance to those items we DO believe in now.

As a theory ( a possible explanation) Genesis makes sense to me.....about how Man stepped away from the rest of the animals.
 

Triumphant_Loser

Libertarian Egalitarian
Outhouse, one only has to look out one's window to see the results/evidence of each of those Creation days. Even to today--which was blessed and sanctified as a time of convocating/assembling/meeting with GOD.
Earth and all therein, and above attest to HIS creating ability. HIS LOVE and sustain ability.

Earth is real/exists and you and I with it.

When I look out my window... I see an oak tree and some grass... no sign of a bearded Arab out there, but I'll keep a look out.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Can we say Man leans to belief of Something Greater?.....

Ya, last time I read the bible it was based on the largest murderer of all time. Genocide on a global scale.

No character ever written about has taken so much innocent life as the one you place faith in and really have no idea how he was created and used by the people in context.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Well let's see.....
Can we say that Man is a divergence of the previous item?......yes.
(supporting evolution)

Can we say Man leans to belief of Something Greater?....yes.
And Man seems to think of himself as the handiwork of that Something Greater?...yes.

Believing the above as fact...is not for everyone.
But I think it is most remarkable how the details of Genesis have so much resemblance to a operation/laboratory kind of event.
And the details bear SHARP resemblance to those items we DO believe in now.

As a theory ( a possible explanation) Genesis makes sense to me.....about how Man stepped away from the rest of the animals.
How does that explain your position about that scientific theory, scientific law, and scientific facts can all be jumbled up in a big pile and not separate as individual and distinct categories?

I ask, "why do you think vanilla ice cream is the same thing as chocolate ice cream." And you answer, "blueberry tarts are produced in factories on Greenland, and the TV show on NBC was cancelled."

There's no connection between what I'm asking and your responses. It's a complete disconnect in our dialogue. There's no gain or headway of our discussion since your answers are far out in the left field each time I try to get something substantial from you. I don't know why you're doing that. Perhaps you don't understand my questions? Perhaps you're unwilling to answer me straightly? Perhaps I don't understand how your answers relate to my question? I don't know. Until I know, there's no real dialogue going on here.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Outhouse, one only has to look out one's window to see the results/evidence of each of those Creation days. Even to today--which was blessed and sanctified as a time of convocating/assembling/meeting with GOD.
Earth and all therein, and above attest to HIS creating ability. HIS LOVE and sustain ability.

Earth is real/exists and you and I with it.

When I look out my window... I see an oak tree and some grass... no sign of a bearded Arab out there, but I'll keep a look out.

Hi TL, Your visual plight just gives me one more reason to thank the Creative GOD. Do keep looking---the signs of Created Life is all over the globe we call earth. Created--Inanimate objects-- are seen as well. That soil in which your oak tree and grass is growing attest to being the evidence of GOD.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
How does that explain your position about that scientific theory, scientific law, and scientific facts can all be jumbled up in a big pile and not separate as individual and distinct categories?

QUOTE]

Hi OB, The old question of: "What came first--the chicken or the egg?" comes to mind.
All things that one sees are real and is a logical fact---and since mankind can interact with those "facts" to a certain extent---they are scientific facts.

Mankind is trying to understand why the existing real things naturally function as they do and has supposed/theorized some principles and worked out some formulas to explain the activity. But that doesn't explain the "Source" of what is seen. The mechanism by whose these operate is called "laws"-- For functions known or unknown.

The Scriptural account gives the "Source" for it all. Gen.1+2.
NO other conjectured "source" satisfies the multiple unanswered "details" which has to be understood/present to logically have what is physically seen.

It is those suppositions/ideas/working propositions which are the "Theories" upon which the experiments are based and proceed.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Thief View Post
Can we say Man leans to belief of Something Greater?.....

Ya, last time I read the bible it was based on the largest murderer of all time. Genocide on a global scale.

No character ever written about has taken so much innocent life as the one you place faith in and really have no idea how he was created and used by the people in context.

Outhouse, The scriptural record shows that for 120 years Noah had preached a warning to those people whose thoughts were only evil continually. Not hardly "innocent". Second, a way of escape had been prepared---that Ark/boat was being built during that time of preaching; and Third, the Door wasn't closed for another week after the Animals(with more sense) had come aboard.
It wasn't murder, but arrogant, defiant suicide.

Mankind's history(the majority of/in) has been one of willful disobey and die---Rather than to Obey and Live.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
How does that explain your position about that scientific theory, scientific law, and scientific facts can all be jumbled up in a big pile and not separate as individual and distinct categories?

Hi OB, The old question of: "What came first--the chicken or the egg?" comes to mind.
The egg. Actually, in a sense both came at the same time since the "chicken" was "born" when the red junglefowl was domesticated 5,000 years ago in Asia. In essence, humans created the "chicken" by domestication of a wild bird. The word "chicken" is our label on a bird that has different genetic code through breeding from that wild bird. At the time of the first domestication, they probably took both eggs, chicks, hens, and rosters at once.


All things that one sees are real and is a logical fact---and since mankind can interact with those "facts" to a certain extent---they are scientific facts.
Sure.

Mankind is trying to understand why the existing real things naturally function as they do and has supposed/theorized some principles and worked out some formulas to explain the activity. But that doesn't explain the "Source" of what is seen. The mechanism by whose these operate is called "laws"-- For functions known or unknown.
Not quite. Scientific laws are those facts of nature that are universal. Find a physical observation that's a fact that applies to all nature, at all times, universally, then it can be a law.

Still doesn't explain Thief's attempt to non-answer.

The Scriptural account gives the "Source" for it all. Gen.1+2.
NO other conjectured "source" satisfies the multiple unanswered "details" which has to be understood/present to logically have what is physically seen.
Nature, reality, existence, world, universe, it's all One. And that's the Source. Based on my own contemplation, meditation, insight and learnings from science and other fields, plus a long life of experience. It's all interconnected.

It is those suppositions/ideas/working propositions which are the "Theories" upon which the experiments are based and proceed.
A scientific theory is a model or explanation of found/observed facts about nature. A scientific theory isn't promoted to "law" or "fact" at some point. But many theories are based on certain facts that the terms in front of the word "theory" also relates to observed facts. Like "theory of evolution" relates to the theory, the explanation of evolution. But evolution, as such, is an observed fact of the world. So evolution is a fact. Theory of evolution is the theory/model/explanation of the fact of evolution. The theory of evolution will never be "promoted" to the fact of evolution, since the theory is the explanation of the fact of evolution already.

The theory of genesis is based on one scripture. One text written by an unknown author (presumed Moses, but not confirmed), many, many, many years ago. What he/she got his/her information from, we can't know for sure. It could have been brought about by drugs, bad mushrooms, bad shellfish, sickness, or just basic fantasies. There are too many explanations to this single text. On the other hand you have hundreds of thousands of scientists working for 200 years and producing thousands of experiments and finding millions of artifacts, all working in unison to find a theory that explains the facts of nature. That explanation fits much better than the single ancient anonymous document. Simple as that.

However, you can always find interesting parts in Genesis that talks to you on a different level. Instead of taking Genesis literally, read it as a story that will teach you something about humanity and life in general, and spiritual life, then you'll find the true message.
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
How does that explain your position about that scientific theory, scientific law, and scientific facts can all be jumbled up in a big pile and not separate as individual and distinct categories?

I ask, "why do you think vanilla ice cream is the same thing as chocolate ice cream." And you answer, "blueberry tarts are produced in factories on Greenland, and the TV show on NBC was cancelled."

There's no connection between what I'm asking and your responses. It's a complete disconnect in our dialogue. There's no gain or headway of our discussion since your answers are far out in the left field each time I try to get something substantial from you. I don't know why you're doing that. Perhaps you don't understand my questions? Perhaps you're unwilling to answer me straightly? Perhaps I don't understand how your answers relate to my question? I don't know. Until I know, there's no real dialogue going on here.

There's no connection between my answers and your questions as it seems...
you have me confused with someone else.

Even so....you are unlikely to have the answer you want.

God did it all.

Genesis works just fine as is.
Denial is futile.

What is not Creator?.....and the Creator may not do as He pleases?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
God did it all.

You have no evidence he did anything! let alone all :biglaugh:



While we have evidence he was a literary creation surrounded with mythology, by people who did not even know their own origins. :facepalm:



Denial is futile



Only on your part.

Education and knowledge must not be perverted due to your bias
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
You have no evidence he did anything! let alone all :biglaugh:



While we have evidence he was a literary creation surrounded with mythology, by people who did not even know their own origins. :facepalm:







Only on your part.

Education and knowledge must not be perverted due to your bias

Your continual plea for evidence is pitiful.
All of these years have gone by .....and you've been told a thousand times.

You have to think about it.

Evidence?.....Cause and effect are sufficient.
Look up.
The universe is the effect.....God is the Cause.
 
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outhouse

Atheistically
Your continual plea for evidence is pitiful.
All of these years have gone by .....and you've been told a thousand times.

You have to think about it.

The universe is the effect.....God is the Cause.

Word salad with no substance or substantiation.

How can mythology create anything?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Myth not god.

If it was real, there would be evidence.

If it were physical....maybe.
But even physical proving can be elusive.

As for God.....He is spirit.
No evidence available.

Plenty of effect in every direction.
The Cause is not apparent.
Doesn't mean He isn't there.
 
I believe that the world and the wonders of living things are a miracle in themselves. That there are precise rules of science such as gravity. Seasons are ruled by time, and the planets and the universe follow precise time schedules. For me, that is evidence enough that it all came from somewhere.

One passage reads: "For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the beginning of the world's creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable." (Romans 1:20)
 
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