Genital mutilation or religious right?

[Revoltingest]

Sorry, but I find your argument to be a bit asinine.

Harrumph!
I haven't really made an argument.

As a parent, we make decisions for our young. And even if such a decision was made for aesthetic and religious purposes, when the risks balance the benefits, it's a parents right and choice to make.

I don't deny you that right.
We're just discussing it.

We defend the right for people to choose far more heinous actions.

Such as?

 

[Father Heathen]

Just in case anyone missed it: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-debates/130986-male-circumcision-poll.html#post2880367

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sorry, but I find your argument to be a bit asinine. As a parent, we make decisions for our young. And even if such a decision was made for aesthetic and religious purposes, when the risks balance the benefits, it's a parents right and choice to make.

Do you feel this way only for circumcision, or do you also support parents' rights to have other cosmetic procedures performed on their children?

 

[Songbird]

I have no issue with circumcision in general. But I don't think babies should be routinely circumcised. By routinely, I mean U.S. doctors used to simply schedule a circ in the hospital within a day or two after birth. Papers would be handed to the parents to sign, without much explanation, which is what I experienced with my firstborn.

As my child-bearing friends tell me, it's not offered at every hospital anymore - you have to request it, and it can be scheduled quite easily upon request.

In the U.S. most circumcisions are performed on boys not from Jewish or Muslim families, and not for religious reasons - but for preconceptions and for wanting sons to look like their peers.

 

[willowjoy]

Gential mutilation is WRONG. Boys shouldn't be circumcised unless it is done for good medical reasons, certainly not for reasons of faith!

 

[Kathryn]

True, that is the best time to perform a needless surgical procedure.
But if the child later decides to avoid circumcision, then there's no problem....except for the parents who really wanted it.

Right - I agree. I like Canada's approach to the issue.

 

[Revoltingest]

Right - I agree. I like Canada's approach to the issue.

I thought they just amputated?

 

[averageJOE]

How the hell is circumcism on a male in any way mutilation if done for religious purposes or otherwise? Unless a complete hack job is done, most men are fully functional afterwards and are able to enjoy better hygiene.

That does not take away the FACT that failed circumcisions DO HAPPEN more often than you think. Yes, most men are fully functional. But some are not. What do you say to those some?

No net medical benefit my booty. Male circumcision reduces the risk of penile cancer and is actually RECOMMENDED for men who have reoccuring UTI and other infections.

Circumcision fact and statistics

Foreskin is gross.

Seriously? It's extra skin! Extra skin that can be stinky and harbor grossness.

Yeah, this is a good reason. It's ickey. I believe the reason why you don't think it's a big deal is because you've been programmed all your life into believing that it's OK.

But really, whats with the fasination with trying to construct a maintanance free penis? Although I am totally against it I don't think an outright ban would work. However, I would support a law that stated that only the father has the desicion on a routine circumcision. No father and your a single mom, no circumcision.

 

[averageJOE]

]How is male circumcision a big deal?[/u] It's not mandatory, first of all. Parents can certainly elect not to have it done. But, it's hardly painful. There are many infants who don't cry or seem bothered by the procedure. So, don't tell me it's cruel. It's a procedure that one heals from rather quickly.

There are actual BENEFITS to having it done. You may not be a fan, and that's totally cool, but to say it's cruel is a stretch. It's SKIN that doesn't really serve a purpose other than covering the penis, unnecessarily. If you want it there, fine.

But, for those who believe religiously or otherwise, that it doesn't need to be there, it's not a cruel procedure to an infant to have it removed, and surprise! Men actually elect, later on in life to have it removed, because they don't like the way it looks. They find it bothersome and feel that it's easier to clean themselves without it.

My ex elected to have it done at 16, because it wasn't done at birth. He was adopted.

Were you in the room when your boys were circumcised?


[/spoiler]

Spoiler: Graphic

Watch a Video

 

[Kathryn]

Look, let's not demonize those who choose circumcision for their kids. Though I didn't myself, and personally I think it's an unnecessary medical procedure, it's just not a huge deal one way or another.

 

[Revoltingest]

Look, let's not demonize those who choose circumcision for their kids. Though I didn't myself, and personally I think it's an unnecessary medical procedure, it's just not a huge deal one way or another.

Although.....after reading more about it, I think it's a bigger deal than I previously thought.
We easily accept that which seems normal, but the analog with FGM is there, & the medical
benefits are far weaker than I previously thought. So let the fighting & demonization continue!

 

[Father Heathen]

So far the anti-circumcision argument hasn't gone beyond an appeal to emotion.

 

[Bismillah]

Circumcision is mutilation but breast implants are not?

 

[Revoltingest]

So far the anti-circumcision argument hasn't gone beyond an appeal to emotion.

Ahem....no clear medical benefit for circumcision has been shown to offset the risks.
The only real arguments I've heard for it are:
- Foreskin is icky.
- Religious tradition.

 

[dawny0826]

Ahem....no clear medical benefit for circumcision has been shown to offset the risks.
The only real arguments I've heard for it are:
- Foreskin is icky.
- Religious tradition.

There are clear medical benefits in certain circumstances. I'm not pulling this out of my ***. Circumcision seriously reduces risk of penile cancers. And for those who have penile cancer, it's a recommended procedure. Men with excessive UTIs and other infections are usualy recommended to have the procedure done.

Circumcision can be helpful.

 

[Revoltingest]

There are clear medical benefits in certain circumstances. I'm not pulling this out of my ***. Circumcision seriously reduces risk of penile cancers. And for those who have penile cancer, it's a recommended procedure. Men with excessive UTIs and other infections are usualy recommended to have the procedure done.
Circumcision can be helpful.

After reading up on it, I don't find the medical benefit argument convincing.
Sure, there are benefits. But when one considers the detriments, the net benefit isn't clear.
Moreover, since we live in N America, the benefits are of less value, since they primarily accrue to 3rd world circumstances.

Circumcision is mutilation but breast implants are not?

Who is saying that?

 

[dawny0826]

Do you feel this way only for circumcision, or do you also support parents' rights to have other cosmetic procedures performed on their children?

I don't even compare circumcision to cosmetic procedures. I'm not Jewish, nor am I Muslim, but it's a tradition that I respect from a religious standpoint. I believe fully that God had good reason to require circumcision.

Outside the auspices of religion, I see this as such a small procedure that has benefits. You weigh pros and cons. I choose to embrace the positives of circumcision.

That's my right. I haven't meant anything personal against you or anyone else on this thread.

 

[dawny0826]

After reading up on it, I don't find the medical benefit argument convincing.
Sure, there are benefits. But when one considers the detriments, the net benefit isn't clear.
Moreover, since we live in N America, the benefits are of less value, since they primarily accrue to 3rd world circumstances.


Who is saying that?

Just say no to foreskin.

That's all I have to say. I have no more fighting words, really.

 

[Revoltingest]

Just say no to foreskin.
That's all I have to say. I have no more fighting words, really.

Me no fight. Me just talk.
I've no problem with your decisions.

 

[Bismillah]

Who is saying that?

The title itself makes reference to it and while maybe not in this thread I've seen it referred to as such in its predecessors.