George W. Bush, war criminal

[tumbleweed41]

That's right brother! The USA is so bad that people are knocking the border down to get out of here. Torture is so prevalent that it is not safe to go to vote. If we don't wake up to the evils of our leaders, we will never be like the USSR, Red China and North Korea. Now these are great examples of people that know how to live. Just look how good they are to their people! If the USA does not change its ways, it will never get the radicals who want freedom to immigrate to the good old USA. When I think of all the better places in the world to live, raise a family and work, it just makes me sick to be a citizen of the USA. Bull ****!

Ah the good old "were better than anybody else" mantra.
Come-on Debunker. This country was initiated by Liberals wanting a new way of life.
Not Empire Building or "spreading Democracy" to the rest of the world.
Of course we want others to enjoy the freedoms and liberties we have, and should actively encourage it out of shear humanity.
But in the process we should not force Democracy down the throats of those not ready for it. Nor should we, in the process, give up our own essential liberties.
Democracy in America grew, it was not forced upon us by another nation. (Unless one counts the tragic forced takeover of Native American society.)
Where Democracy has taken seed and grown, it has evolved into many various forms. Not one of them exactly like the other.
Democracy should fit the people, not a preconceived ideal.

And when our leaders use patriotism and "spreading democracy" as an excuse to force American will on another nation, they are truly guilty of jingoism and, at times, crimes against humanity.

America is a great nation. But it can surely be better. I am one of those that believes their are many improvements yet to be made, and find ultra-conservatism to be a stagnation upon our nation. And while I lean pretty far to the Left, I also find ultra-Liberalism to be a danger to a Democratic society.

 

[Jacksnyte]

The Bush's of this world did nothing for us but spend our money (and our grandchildren and great-children's money) and murder 1.2million people in Iraq alone. 3,000 people dying in the WTC is not worth the senseless slaughter of 1.2million people.

And the moron never found bin Laden. Because that wasn't his goal. If he found bin Laden, there would be no cause to continue the wars.

And yes, I don't think that anyone else at this point in history could have screwed the pooch more than Bush on handling 9/11 than any other Democrat or Republican.

The Bush administration was a force of unbridled evil in the world and I hope that he sees justice before he dies, even if it is as little as the tarnishing of his 'good name' in a way that his supporters can't sheild him from.

I am quite sure that the CIA knows exactly where Ben Laden is at all times. It simply doesn't profit any of the powers that be to actually find him. They are playing games within games here.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

That's right. The Germans should have finished the job on the Jews and we would not have to have supported Israel as we do today. The very idea that the Jews should have safe borders in which to live is repugnant and goes against American values. Let's give them up to the Palestinians. It is just fine to turn on our friends. They don't trust us anyway and I can not figure out why.

Dude, you've just hurled yourself over the edge.

 

[LuisDantas]

I wonder. How many people really believe GWB made Americans safer?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Right. That was a very poor excuse he used to say he was protecting the USA. He certainly over reacted to the lose of only 3000 people. What was he thinking? A liberal Democrat would never have done such a foolish thing like Bush did. Now, that Ben Laden fellow, he's a nice guy and he'll stop his terrorist attacks after the Bush's of this world are gone.

That's right. The Germans should have finished the job on the Jews and we would not have to have supported Israel as we do today. The very idea that the Jews should have safe borders in which to live is repugnant and goes against American values. Let's give them up to the Palestinians. It is just fine to turn on our friends. They don't trust us anyway and I can not figure out why.

Get a grip on reality and quit with the over-generalizations and exaggerations.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I wonder. How many people really believe GWB made Americans safer?

Apparently there's at least one.

 

[Debunker]

It's also the excuse Stalin used when he invaded Poland.
In securing your freedom GWB has reduced it, tarnished it and put many many innocent people into the ground. He has instigated unaccountable secret service behaviour worthy of the Gestapo and he has recruited hundreds of thousands of minds for the enemies of your country.

Seems like he has failed miserably.

As a bonus his policies have made the world a poorer, more unstable and dangerous place for the rest of us. Brilliant.

In your great wisdom, what should Bush have done? After 9/11, should he invited the terrorist to the table and granted them all their demands? What were the hundreds of thousands of minds you are talking about? They are of course, freedom loving people. You know don;t you that the terrorist who kill your children, rape your daughters, and take your peace away love you denunciation of Bush. Those are great words of freedom loving people during a time of war in which our freedoms are at issue.

 

[LuisDantas]

Right. That was a very poor excuse he used to say he was protecting the USA.

That much is right.

He certainly over reacted to the lose of only 3000 people. What was he thinking?

Do you honestly think that he expected to make the USA safer by engaging in war under false pretext? It is very clear to me that he either was an idiot or wanted to exchange a greater risk to USA safety by enhanced political support.

A liberal Democrat would never have done such a foolish thing like Bush did.

I would like to think so, but politicians are not to be trusted even that much.

Now, that Ben Laden fellow, he's a nice guy and he'll stop his terrorist attacks after the Bush's of this world are gone.

He's a monster. One who certainly enjoys how GWB bought his lure lock, stock and barrel. He could have spent decades telling people about how the USA are the Great Satan, and the effect would come nowhere near the evidence that GWB provided in his stead.

 

[tumbleweed41]

In your great wisdom, what should Bush have done? After 9/11, should he invited the terrorist to the table and granted them all their demands? What were the hundreds of thousands of minds you are talking about? They are of course, freedom loving people. You know don;t you that the terrorist who kill your children, rape your daughters, and take your peace away love you denunciation of Bush. Those are great words of freedom loving people during a time of war in which our freedoms are at issue.

More exaggerations and over-generalizations?

 

[Bismillah]

The best part of this thread: I have come to realize the intelligence level of those who are still die-hard Bush supporters.

 

[Debunker]

You give Al Qaeda a lot of credit, not to mention seeing them in Saddam-ruled Iraq, where they simply were not present. Saddam and Al Qaeda hated the guts of each other.

Yeh! The world had the wrong idea about Saddam. He was our friend and the fact he killed 1000's of his own people is a meaningless fact. Al Qaeda is a group of small minded people and they obviously mean us no ill will. I don't understand why the American people can not see this but they keep electing that war criminal to be our president. Don't the people of the USA read the news any more?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

More exaggerations and over-generalizations?

Maybe in his mind that's the only alternative he sees.

It is the bianry thinking that conservatives have been taught to know and love.

Hence the undying support for Bush even in his undeniable, colossal failures.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

This is behaviour I've come to expect from Debunker by now.

 

[Debunker]

One can only wonder why so many civilians died in a country that welcomed the US troops so gladly...

I know, I know, Bush did it. It had nothing to do with Al Qaeda or the fact the Muslims had been kill each other for 100's years. Yes, it was Bush again.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Yeh! The world had the wrong idea about Saddam. He was our friend and the fact he killed 1000's of his own people is a meaningless fact. Al Qaeda is a group of small minded people and they obviously mean us no ill will. I don't understand why the American people can not see this but they keep electing that war criminal to be our president. Don't the people of the USA read the news any more?

Debunker,

I know that you're in your own little world right now, but here's a friendly news flash:

This hyperbole 'method' of argument is just a series of strawmen that than arguments. You're not giving counter arguments but insane alternatives that no one has advocated or would support. That's a strawman.

And nobody is buying it. You're only embarassing yourself.

If you would actually engage the issues at hand reasonably, you'd be not only avoiding a gross logical fallacy, but you'd be participating productively in the debate and you may learn something or *gasp* convince others.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I know, I know, Bush did it. It had nothing to do with Al Qaeda or the fact the Muslims had been kill each other for 100's years. Yes, it was Bush again.

Al-Queda isn't even stationed in the Middle East. It's main headquarters are in southeast Asia, a fact few seem to acknowledge. Rather they've been killing each other for centuries or not is none of our business. We have enough problems.

 

[Genuine Realist]

Apparently there's at least one.

Not just the US safer, but the West. Apparently, many of you believe the relative absence of terrorist incidents is an accident or happenstance. But I think I established yesterday that myth counts here a great deal more than reality.

Luis Dantas noted how disappointed he was that Barack Obama has continued most of the Bush security apparatus in place, including support for the Patriot Act. FWIW, I predicted back in 2008 that Obama, if elected, would do exactly that, AND that the Left would regard that as betrayal.

But think about it. Barack Obama's liberal credentials are pretty well impeccable, and he does know some law. If he continues the program, it must imply at the very least that it confers some significant benefit on the US security position, and its particulars are not all that offensive. (Both are correct, in my opinion.) At the very, very least, it requires a re-think of the earlier value judgment. You now have two administrations of very different hues that have come to the position that the program is valuable and legal.

But no. No way. No rethink. You know what's right and real, and new facts don't matter. Thus, automatic damnation of Barack. 'Why, he's no better than Bush!' The mind, once closed, stays closed. This is what I mean by reactionary and royalist.

I don't mean to single out Dantas - he's typical of many. But those of you who believe you are free and open in these matters . . . . you're not. Prying you away from those value judgments is just impossible.

Debunker, by the way, who's a lot less subtle than me, is making a point about the implications of the value judgments in his remarks about Jews, Palestine, etc. The tone is meant to be ironic and satirical. A couple of you flew right by that.

 

[LuisDantas]

In your great wisdom, what should Bush have done?

Not lying about the supposed WMDs would be a start. Respecting UN decisions would be better yet.

Even better, albeit politically risky in an immediate sense, would be engaging in diplomatic talks with Muslim representants and attaining support from moderates. He would enter History, quite deservingly, if he had the courage for going in that direction.

After 9/11, should he invited the terrorist to the table and granted them all their demands?

It would be perhaps almost as destructive as what he actually did, of course. Then again, that is the other extreme and makes just as little sense.

What were the hundreds of thousands of minds you are talking about? They are of course, freedom loving people. You know don't you that the terrorist who kill your children, rape your daughters, and take your peace away love you denunciation of Bush. Those are great words of freedom loving people during a time of war in which our freedoms are at issue.

That is perhaps the most damning damage that GWB and company caused; there are people (and you may be one of them) who seem to actually believe that there are hundreds of thousands of terrorists out there doing their best to try and enter US soil to draw blood.

It would be funny if it weren't tragic.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yeh! The world had the wrong idea about Saddam.

Not the world, but enough people. Many of them seem to think that all Muslims get along fine, and even that the Al Qaeda was in speaking terms with Saddam.

He was our friend and the fact he killed 1000's of his own people is a meaningless fact. Al Qaeda is a group of small minded people and they obviously mean us no ill will. I don't understand why the American people can not see this but they keep electing that war criminal to be our president. Don't the people of the USA read the news any more?

For a Debunker, you sure like to twist and lie as if there was no tomorrow...

 

[LuisDantas]

I know, I know, Bush did it. It had nothing to do with Al Qaeda or the fact the Muslims had been kill each other for 100's years. Yes, it was Bush again.

That is in fact true. Al Qaeda is a nasty terrorist group... which had nothing to do with Iraq.