Getting away with murder.

[Warren Clark]

There were 7 charges against her. She was found guilty of four of them (four counts of lying to law enforcement)

The other three were:

first degree murder, aggravated manslaughter of a child, and aggravated child abuse.

Yes and they are all very different charges.

Aggravated means that she did it purposely and that she had a direct motive to kill.
Such as "Caylee p-d off Casey so much that Casey killed her."
There was no evidence for it.
Aggravated Child Abuse is the same motive only causing harm (not killing) to the victim.
There was no proof. The only proof was that there was gross neglegence.

Aggravated explains the state of mind of the killer before and during the murder and can raise the maximum sentence recieved.
1st/2nd/3rd Degree is the means used to committ murder.


Murder (United States law) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

First Degree Murder is any murder that is willful and premeditated. Felony Murder is typically first degree.[4].
Second Degree Murder is a murder that is not premeditated or planned in advance.[5]
Voluntary Manslaughter sometimes called a "Heat of Passion" murder, is any intentional killing that involved no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed." Both this and second degree murder are committed on the spot, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter.[6]
Involuntary Manslaughter stems from unintentional, but reckless or criminally negligent behavior. A drunk driving-related death is typically involuntary manslaughter. Note that the "unintentional" element here refers to the lack of intent to bring about the death. All three crimes above feature an intent to kill, whereas involuntary manslaughter is "unintentional," because the killer did not intend for a death to result from his intentional actions.[7]

Aggravation (law)
​

Aggravation, in law, is "any circumstance attending the commission of a crime or tort which increases its guilt or enormity or adds to its injurious consequences, but which is above and beyond the essential constituents of the crime or tort itself."
​

 

[Kathryn]

I think people are really passionate about this case because it involved the murder of a small, innocent child. People seem to have an innate quality that makes them want to protect little children and punish those who they believe harmed or killed a small child. All those pictures of Caylee were plastered all over the place. Even if you didn't follow the case, you couldn't help but see them at least once. We just wished that Caylee could have had some justice in death.

Christine, I love your quote.

Anyway, I agree with this, but I also am struck by so many ironies of this case.

The biggest irony I see is this - that if this child had been a little black girl, and the mom had been a black woman, I doubt seriously that this case would have attracted the same level of media and public interest. This case was full of beautiful white people and the media grabbed it, marketed it, and we all ate it up.

Children go missing, are murdered - by their parents - every day in this country. And, as in the OJ case, ex wives and their boyfriends are murdered, probably every day, in this country.

We should probably spend less time pontificating about this case, and more time working on social issues - such as WHY the life of a black child or a black woman is treated with less interest than the lives of those in the Anthony family.

And what a family - sheeze. Can't we do better than this as a society?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I first thought of this song: [youtube]-rdmG0k8S8k[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪Papa Roach - Getting Away With Murder‬‏


But yeah, it's sad no justice is being served about this case.

 

[Darkness]

Christine, I love your quote.

Anyway, I agree with this, but I also am struck by so many ironies of this case.

The biggest irony I see is this - that if this child had been a little black girl, and the mom had been a black woman, I doubt seriously that this case would have attracted the same level of media and public interest. This case was full of beautiful white people and the media grabbed it, marketed it, and we all ate it up.

Children go missing, are murdered - by their parents - every day in this country. And, as in the OJ case, ex wives and their boyfriends are murdered, probably every day, in this country.

We should probably spend less time pontificating about this case, and more time working on social issues - such as WHY the life of a black child or a black woman is treated with less interest than the lives of those in the Anthony family.

And what a family - sheeze. Can't we do better than this as a society?

I assent. I cannot think of a really popular case that did not involve a white girl. 300,000 children (neglected/runaways) are drawn into sex trafficking every year in this country, but somehow that gets no publicity. I have a lot of problems with MSNBC, but they have been instrumental in producing report after report on human trafficking in the United States and around the globe. Unfortunately, these stories do not make it into the mainstream news.

 

[Kathryn]

To the (albeit dubious) credit of the mainstream media, I have noticed a bit more attention being paid to crimes committed against children - especially child and sex slave trafficking - but only recently.

Still - there are bizarre and horrific crimes committed against children every day - a fairly recent case comes to my mind immediately. It is the case of a Hispanic woman beheading her baby.

WARNING - these links discuss extremely gruesome facts regarding this crime.
Police: SA baby's death an 'atrocity,' 'unspeakable tragedy' | Breaking News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

Not Guilty by reason of Insanity Verdict for Mother who decapitated and ate child’s brain « Saynsumthn’s Blog

I mean, come on - this is a pretty sensational story. And the mother was found innocent by reason of insanity. But was this horrific crime put in our faces night after night after night for months? No. Was this child's life worth any less than the life of Caylee Anthony? A resounding HELL NO.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Aggravated explains the state of mind of the killer before and during the murder and can raise the maximum sentence recieved.

No, it doesn't. And the definition you posted doesn't support your assertion.

Aggravation, in law, is "any circumstance attending the commission of a crime or tort which increases its guilt or enormity or adds to its injurious consequences, but which is above and beyond the essential constituents of the crime or tort itself."
​

Purposely shooting a guy to kill him... that's Murder.

Purposely shooting a guy to kill him and rob him... that's aggravated murder.
Purposely shooting a child... that's aggravated murder.
Purposely shooting more than one person... that's aggravated murder.
Purposely shooting a law enforcement officer... that's aggravated murder.


It has absolutely nothing to do with one's state of mind, and everything to do with a factor that makes the crime worse than it would have been otherwise. It's not that the person committing the crime was aggravated, but the crime itself was aggravated.

 

[Acim]

Just to be clear on something....

When Casey is released, if someone were to intentionally hurt / kill Casey, would some here call that "justice?" And along these lines, if that person were to either not get caught or get caught and be treated as a 'hero' with no charges filed against them, would that also be 'justice?' Or if that person is caught and charged, but not convicted (instead found not guilty), will that mean we have to form yet another posse to hurt / kill that person?

 

[Warren Clark]

No, it doesn't. And the definition you posted doesn't support your assertion.

Purposely shooting a guy to kill him... that's Murder.

Purposely shooting a guy to kill him and rob him... that's aggravated murder. Purposely shooting a child... that's aggravated murder.
Purposely shooting more than one person... that's aggravated murder.
Purposely shooting a law enforcement officer... that's aggravated murder.

It has absolutely nothing to do with one's state of mind, and everything to do with a factor that makes the crime worse than it would have been otherwise. It's not that the person committing the crime was aggravated, but the crime itself was aggravated.

Yes it has everything to do with the state of mind - Intent & Means.
Plain shooting a child is NOT aggravated murder.
Having the malicious intent to shoot the child is aggravated.
Being in a bar fight is aggravated assault.
Being in a bar fight and someone ends up dying from a concusion, that is not aggravated but is still concidered murder.
Shooting your husband and his mistress is aggravated murder.
Shooting your husband is NOT aggravated.

You put purposely before each and every scenerio.
Purpose = Intent and Means. (State of Mind)
Hope that clears that up.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Yes it has everything to do with the state of mind - Intent & Means.

No, it doesn't.

Plain shooting a child is NOT aggravated murder.

Yes, it is. The aggravating factor is the age of the child. That's what makes it worse than plain ole murder... it's aggravated murder.

Having the malicious intent to shoot the child is aggravated.

Having the malicious intent is what makes murder murder. The young age of the victim is what makes it aggravated.

Being in a bar fight is aggravated assault.

Not necessarily.

Being in a bar fight and someone ends up dying from a concusion, that is not aggravated but is still concidered murder.

Wrong. It would be manslaughter. Unless it could be proved that there was intent to kill, rather than just hurt.

Shooting your husband and his mistress is aggravated murder.

No... it might be aggravated manslaughter (aggravated because of multiple victims, not because of the state of mind of the killer)

Shooting your husband is NOT aggravated.

That's true... unless there is some sort of aggravating factor (as defined by law)

You put purposely before each and every scenerio.

Purpose = Intent and Means. (State of Mind)

Purpose is what makes murder murder. It has absolutely nothing to do with what makes murder aggravated.

Hope that clears that up.

What's cleared up is that you don't seem to understand that the common, every day usage of the word aggravated has absolutely nothing to do with the legal definition of the word.

Aggravated describes the crime, not the criminal.

 

[Warren Clark]

No, it doesn't.
Yes, it is. The aggravating factor is the age of the child. That's what makes it worse than plain ole murder... it's aggravated murder.
Having the malicious intent is what makes murder murder. The young age of the victim is what makes it aggravated.
Not necessarily.
Wrong. It would be manslaughter. Unless it could be proved that there was intent to kill, rather than just hurt.
No... it might be aggravated manslaughter (aggravated because of multiple victims, not because of the state of mind of the killer)
That's true... unless there is some sort of aggravating factor (as defined by law)

Purpose is what makes murder murder. It has absolutely nothing to do with what makes murder aggravated.

What's cleared up is that you don't seem to understand that the common, every day usage of the word aggravated has absolutely nothing to do with the legal definition of the word.

Aggravated describes the crime, not the criminal.

So you have only proven my point that it is the intent and means of which are used to create aggravated murder.

Here is the Florida state list of aggravated felonies punishable by death.

Florida-
(1)The murder was especially heinous, atrocious, cruel, or depraved (or involved torture)
(2) The capital offense was committed during the commission of, attempt of, or escape from a specified felony (such as robbery, kidnapping, rape, sodomy, arson, oral copulation, train wrecking, carjacking, criminal gang activity, drug dealing, or aircraft piracy)
(3) The defendant knowingly created a grave risk of death for one or more persons in addition to the victim of the offense
(4) The defendant committed the murder after substantial planning and premeditation
(5) The murder was committed for pecuniary gain or pursuant to an agreement that the defendant would receive something of value
(6) The murder was committed to avoid or prevent arrest, to effect an escape, or to conceal the commission of a crime
(7) The capital offense was committed to interfere with the lawful exercise of any government function or the enforcement of the laws
(8) The defendant has been convicted of, or committed, a prior murder, a felony involving violence, or other serious felony
(9) The capital offense was committed by a person who is incarcerated, has escaped, is on probation, is in jail, or is under a sentence of imprisonment
(10)The defendant was a criminal street gang member
(11)The victim of the capital felony was a person less than 12 years of age
(12)The victim of the capital felony was particularly vulnerable due to disability, or because the defendant stood in a position of familial or custodial authority over the victim
(13) The victim was an elected or appointed official or former official of the federal government, or local or state government, and the killing intentionally prevented the victim’s official duties
(14)The defendant engaged in drug trafficking
(15)The defendant raped a child
(16)The capital felony was a homicide and was committed in a cold, calculated, and premeditated manner without any pretense of moral or legal justification
(17)The capital felony was committed by a person designated as a sexual predator or a person previously designated as a sexual predator who had the sexual predator designation removed

These are all within the intent of means of which the felony was committed.

I can admit that I was wrong about the childs age, but it was still the fact that the intent and means of the crime.
The intended to kill the child, and they used the means to kill the child.
Casey Anthony was found not guilty because the evidence did not prove intent and means beyond a reasonable doubt.

You shouldn't make a judgment on someone's life based on pure emotion.
​

 

[Poisonshady313]

So you have only proven my point that it is the intent and means of which are used to create aggravated murder.

I have done no such thing. Intent only goes to show that it's murder. Has absolutely nothing to do with aggravation. Means is the ability to commit the murder. Again, absolutely nothing to do with aggravation.

These are all within the intent of means of which the felony was committed.

intent of means? You are speaking gibberish.

I can admit that I was wrong about the childs age, but it was still the fact that the intent and means of the crime.
The intended to kill the child, and they used the means to kill the child.

. Intent = murder. Means = guilt. Child = aggravated. It's a good thing you know how to admit that you are wrong, because you're going to have to do it again.

You shouldn't make a judgment on someone's life based on pure emotion.

I didn't make a judgment. I just pointed out that a person can be charged for two different things at the same time.

 

[Warren Clark]

I have done no such thing. Intent only goes to show that it's murder. Has absolutely nothing to do with aggravation. Means is the ability to commit the murder. Again, absolutely nothing to do with aggravation.

No! Means, is not only the ability but the way the murder was conducted.

intent of means? You are speaking gibberish.

not really, jibberish just i misuse of words, of which i apologize for.
May I clarify: These are all within the intent and means of which the felony was committed.

. Intent = murder. Means = guilt. Child = aggravated. It's a good thing you know how to admit that you are wrong, because you're going to have to do it again.

What? This is so off the wall.
Intent = wanting to do the act = Malice
Means = the way the act was carried out = Murder
Child, hiding the body = aggravated

Guilt doesn't fit anywhere in there.
There is no guilt until after the trial.

I didn't make a judgment. I just pointed out that a person can be charged for two different things at the same time.

Yes, anyone can be charged accumilatively or consecutively.
They charged her accumilatively. Purgery, Check Fraud, 1st Degree Murder, Aggravated manslaughter.

To say that she should have been convicted (found guilty) of the charges 1st Degree Murder and/or Manslughter is based on pure emotion.
The evidence wasn't adequate.

 

[Oneatatime]

Isn't it possible that she's innocent? I'm not particually familiar with this case but it seems that some people have just assumed she did it and treat anything which says otherwise with scorn.

 

[Kathryn]

It's possible that she didn't kill her daughter. But is it possible that she's INNOCENT when it comes to being involved in the death and subsequent coverup? Well - anything is possible - it's possible that the world may end tomorrow. But not probable.

The jury wasn't able to find her GUILTY of first degree murder. That doesn't mean she's innocent. Innocent people don't lie like a damn rug on the floor like she has done for three long years.

 

[McBell]

Innocent people don't lie like a damn rug on the floor like she has done for three long years.

This is purely wishful thinking.
Innocent people being charged with crimes they are innocent of lie all the time.

 

[McBell]

It's possible that she didn't kill her daughter. But is it possible that she's INNOCENT when it comes to being involved in the death and subsequent coverup?

Seems to me that this is actually much more plausible, based upon the evidence, than her committing first degree murder.

It is plausible that the daughter drowned and died while the mother was off partying and the mothers father covered it up without the mother knowing anything about it.

 

[Kathryn]

This is purely wishful thinking.
Innocent people being charged with crimes they are innocent of lie all the time.

I'm sorry - I should have made this more clear.

I was discussing specifically HER modus operandum - her behavior while in jail - the tone of the letters and phone calls, her inconsistent story, her behavior toward her friends and family, etc. I did, however say they don't lie "LIKE SHE DID" meaning in the manner in which she lied and conducted her "business" - but hope this clarifies my statement.

 

[Kathryn]

Hers are not the actions of an innocent woman.

Jury found her "not guilty?" I can see why. That doesn't mean she didn't do it or wasn't involved in it.

 

[McBell]

I'm sorry - I should have made this more clear.

I was discussing specifically HER modus operandum - her behavior while in jail - the tone of the letters and phone calls, her inconsistent story, her behavior toward her friends and family, etc. I did, however say they don't lie "LIKE SHE DID" meaning in the manner in which she lied and conducted her "business" - but hope this clarifies my statement.

You were plenty clear the first time.

 

[Poisonshady313]

No! Means, is not only the ability but the way the murder was conducted.

Wrong again. Means is simply the ability. The way is called the M.O.

What? This is so off the wall.
Intent = wanting to do the act = Malice
Means = the way the act was carried out = Murder
Child, hiding the body = aggravated

Guilt doesn't fit anywhere in there.
There is no guilt until after the trial.

Trying to establish guilt one must show that there is

Motive
Means
Opportunity

You really don't seem to know what you're talking about, so I'm going to just leave this exchange alone.