Give me a good reason for not leaving RF

[F1fan]

I have no purpose in life, other than sharing my fashion sense with all that wish to be...well...fashionable.

Ruffled feathers are in.

 

[osgart]

Right now i am in a time of pondering what RF really mean to me, of course all the good discussion with friendly outcome is a pleasant excange, and i have some very good friends in here, And this is keeping me in RF right now.

As most if not all already know, i do not have anything against Atheists who want to discuss,but to be brutally honest, all the negativity toward God or other deities that are spoken about in RF, It has come to a point where i no longer feel a need to defend my own belief, and when this is spoken about in threads, this become seen as negative. Maybe it is no fun for people to not discuss the same topic about God vs No God anymore when the believer stop defending their belief.?

To me RF has been a free area where i can speak openly and with no worries, but this is no longer how i see it.
It is more of a pain to come in to RF this days. and RF has become more and more boring place to be.

So please give me a honest reason why I should stay.

I duck and dodge RF all the time. I'm an atheist, but I don't debate, I dissent. The negativity, and repetitious debating makes me check out of here. But I always find interesting reasons to come back.

I think atheism is a philosophical position as much as theism is. Both positions are about proof. There is no evidence for atheism, nor theism as I see it.

The all mighty human system of logic and fallacies is enough to drive one bonkers. The logic and naturalist religion is alive and well.
Some people I've noticed demand that other people succumb to their interpretations, or be made a fool out of. The non sequitur is often a matter of interpretation whereas the one claiming it is claiming superior intuition.
I think if people always stuck to logic and evidence then no one would think beyond limitations of human experience.

My aim at RF is to understand as many different perspectives I can. If your God doesn't have issues with me then I have no issues with such God.

I think the threads you come up with are very interesting. Your positive outlook is appreciated.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I suspect there are many forums a lot worse than RF, so it might be down to the devil you know. But mainly I would advise anyone who has issues with anything seemingly seen as personal slight or as attacking them to just grow a thicker skin. Since it's usually our reactions to what we perceive that harms us or offends us than what is given - but then I'm thicker than most probably.

And I'm sure you have as many friends here as possible enemies.

Oh i do not see it as an attack on me personally
Just really really tired of explaining to a wall of non believers who seem to not accept that spiritual belief is not always one answer. But it is ok, I got the weekend off, and think now RF is the only online forum i care enough about to stay

 

[Truthseeker]

If you say so. You must know so much more about my thought than I do. Please, if you know what I'll think next, let me know.

I'm saying look at all of this thread. Look at everything that Conscious thoughts said. He said at one point that what has been said in here has not shaken his faith at all. I should have said that in the first place, that he said that. Unlike you I find that he is humble. You are not. I'll also never be as humble as him.

No, I'm not a mind reader. By the way, you have well named yourself. The first part of your name, I mean.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I duck and dodge RF all the time. I'm an atheist, but I don't debate, I dissent. The negativity, and repetitious debating makes me check out of here. But I always find interesting reasons to come back.

I think atheism is a philosophical position as much as theism is. Both positions are about proof. There is no evidence for atheism, nor theism as I see it.

The all mighty human system of logic and fallacies is enough to drive one bonkers. The logic and naturalist religion is alive and well.
Some people I've noticed demand that other people succumb to their interpretations, or be made a fool out of. The non sequitur is often a matter of interpretation whereas the one claiming it is claiming superior intuition.
I think if people always stuck to logic and evidence then no one would think beyond limitations of human experience.

My aim at RF is to understand as many different perspectives I can. If your God doesn't have issues with me then I have no issues with such God.

I think the threads you come up with are very interesting. Your positive outlook is appreciated.

This is the form of atheists i like, who who accept that there are many answers and it make you curious to understand more

 

[Spirit of Light]

Open religious debate can be difficult for some believers. It's not for everyone.


As I noted a few days ago you do have a pattern of making statements about your belief in rebuttal to topics, and this opens the door to criticism of your belief. So some of this is self inflicted. You being Sufi means your beliefs are not usually in the line of fire, so you could chime in about many topics and not bring your personal belief into it.

I am in RF to discuss religious issues, it means also speaking about my own understanding and belief.
Sufism is almost more like a philosophical path than a strait forward religious belief

 

[F1fan]

I am in RF to discuss religious issues, it means also speaking about my own understanding and belief.
Sufism is almost more like a philosophical path than a strait forward religious belief

The search for truth isn't about finding something to believe in, but realizing the mistakes we make as we learn and evolve our understanding. There is no final or absolute truth for us if we keep asking questions.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Perhaps you haven't noticed how often the non-believers are told -- right here in RF -- how wrong they are for not believing, and often enough what the dire cosequences are likely to be.

Perhaps you haven't noticed how often you yourself have asked questions about God in a way that makes explicit your belief in God's existence ("Can we see God," or "How well do you know God," and many other threads). And when you ask such questions, why would an atheist not try to answer you as honestly as they can, from their own point of view? After all, it's the only point of view they've got.

Have you tried, I mean seriously tried, to understand when they explain to you how they come to disbelieve in any gods, or how they come to dislike what many God believers do unto others in the name of their belief? And some of that is very, very real. I am reminded that the Taliban are very resurgent in Afghanistan at the moment, and a lot of Afghans should be very, very frightened of having their heads removed, or being shot to death for being female without being fully covered. Or that religious believers around the world are still mounting campaigns against people who just happen to be LGBT, something they have no choice about.

Maybe you are thinking about leaving because you'd rather just hold onto your own belief, without being reminded that there may well be downsides to uncritical belief. Because some of that is what we discuss here. You would not be the first person who, when being told unpleasant truths, stick their fingers in their ears and sing "tra-la-la, I can't hear you." I'll admit, that can be more comfortable sometimes.

In the end, you will do what you wish to do. I can't give you reasons to stay or go, only you can do that, and only for yourself. I'd prefer you stay, because the more voices there are in the discussion, the more views can be aired, and the more we all learn.

Yes I do ask a lot of questions and I do so because I do not know the answers, I have faith and belief but I can not scientificly prove my belief.

When a atheist ask about proof of Allah, I can now say. Even Prophet Muhammad did not see the true being of Allah, what he describe was a very bright light (this is simiar to biblical description of God)

So how could i see Allah?

 

[Spirit of Light]

The search for truth isn't about finding something to believe in, but realizing the mistakes we make as we learn and evolve our understanding. There is no final or absolute truth for us if we keep asking questions.

What you say here is ehat i do every single day, finding my own faults and shortcomings and use my belief in sufism to find the solution

 

[F1fan]

Yes I do ask a lot of questions and I do so because I do not know the answers, I have faith and belief but I can not scientificly prove my belief.

When a atheist ask about proof of Allah, I can now say. Even Prophet Muhammad did not see the true being of Allah, what he describe was a very bright light (this is simiar to biblical description of God)

So how could i see Allah?

Perhaps if it was real. Alas we have no such evidence.

 

[F1fan]

[QUOTE="Conscious thoughts, post: 7281624, member: 65429"

So how could i see Allah?[/QUOTE]
Why would you think you could see an Allah?

And if it doesn't exist, how would you know you couldn't see it because of no fault of your own?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Perhaps if it was real. Alas we have no such evidence.

If you do not believe in religious teaching or in a God, that is of course no problem at all, but let those who do believe as they do without making it feels that the believer have to excuse them self because they believe in something you can not understand.

 

[Debater Slayer]

***Mod Post***

This is not a debate thread. Please refrain from debating here. Any argumentative posts may be moderated per Rule 10 of RF as well as any other rule(s) they may violate.​

 

[Spirit of Light]

[QUOTE="Conscious thoughts, post: 7281624, member: 65429"

So how could i see Allah?

Why would you think you could see an Allah?

And if it doesn't exist, how would you know you couldn't see it because of no fault of your own?[/QUOTE]
I believe in Allah, that is enough for me ( here you go again asking about how I can believe) i believe because my personal experience give me the answers i asked for to be answered. I believe because even Allah has not come to me in physical petson, Allah arise from within my spiritual being.

That is the only way i can explain it, it is ok if you your self can not understand or believe this

 

[Truthseeker]

***Mod Post***

This is not a debate thread. Please refrain from debating here. Any argumentative posts may be moderated per Rule 10 of RF as well as any other rule(s) they may violate.​

Sorry if my exchange with EvangelHumanist went over the line.

 

[RestlessSoul]

So what was your purpose in disagreeing with me, and resorting to the word "Poppycock," with an exclamation point?

Words like “poppycock” have to get a run out every so often or they’ll fall into disuse, which would be a shame.

Though I may be talking codswallop, or indeed baloney.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Yes I do ask a lot of questions and I do so because I do not know the answers, I have faith and belief but I can not scientificly prove my belief.

When a atheist ask about proof of Allah, I can now say. Even Prophet Muhammad did not see the true being of Allah, what he describe was a very bright light (this is simiar to biblical description of God)

So how could i see Allah?

I think you may be interested in these verses, two from the Bhagavad Gita, and a passage from Paradise Lost. Both, from different worlds almost, describe visions of divinity, in strikingly similar terms (the language of Paradise Lost is a little arcane to modern English ears, and I know English is not your first language. Worth a little effort though imo).

BG 11 vs 12

If a thousand suns
had risen
in the sky
all at once,
such brilliance
would be the brilliance
of that great self

BG 11 vs 17

I see you,
who are hard to see,
completely, beyond measure.
With the light of a sun
whose fire is blazing,
you shine everywhere-
a mountain of light,
with crown, club, and discuss.

PL III 374-383

…Author of all being,
Fountain of light, thyself invisible
Amidst the glorious brightness where thou sitt’st
Throned inaccessible, but when though shad’st
The full blaze of thy beams, and through a cloud
Drawn round about thee like a radiant shrine,
Dark with excessive bright thy skirts appear,
Yet dazzle Heav’n, that brightest Seraphim
Approach not, but with wings veil their eyes.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I have desided to stay in RF.

 

[Martin]

Words like “poppycock” have to get a run out every so often or they’ll fall into disuse, which would be a shame.

Though I may be talking codswallop, or indeed baloney.

Or even balderdash.

 

[F1fan]

What you say here is ehat i do every single day, finding my own faults and shortcomings and use my belief in sufism to find the solution

It could be that faults and shortcomings are why you believe. Possible?

Let's ask more questions about it.