Give me a good reason for not leaving RF

[PoetPhilosopher]

There are theist only and atheist only private forums here.

I may request access to the theist one some time. Does you or any other staff member happen to know if there are limits to how many private boards you can have on your account?

 

[F1fan]

I think that may be true. Honestly, I'd say if we had more boards for theist-only and more boards for atheist-only, it could help the interactions we do have that are atheist/theist in which we talk in the normal debates. But I'm just speaking in theory, here. Sometimes things pan out differently in reality than in theory. But my idea would be a theist-only DIR, and to make things fair, I think atheists should get a similar feature request of theirs granted too, even if the pre-existing non-theist DIR already comes close to a theist DIR. But that's just how I feel.

The old Beliefnet boards did have a section that was religion to religion debate, and non-believers were asked to not chime in.

The funny thing is those boards got pretty nasty, and in some ways worse than the blunt, fact/logic approach by atheists. We have seen plenty of disagreements between theists about what God does, is, can do, can't do, etc. That tends to be set aside to focus on the criticisms by non-believers.

What is even funnier is that in the final years of Bnet the lines morphed from the believers to non-believers to the line being drawn between the reasonable versus unreasonable. The non-believers actually aligned with the Pagans and moderate theists against the more extreme theists. It was a remarkable evolution. Bret forums closed some 10 years ago but many of the main folks found each other on Facebook and we have a few groups to stay in touch. It was a remarkable social experience that illustrates how as people form bonds they find a common humanity that supersedes the detached debate that we are referring to in this discussion. We learn about people and we care. We avoid saying things that might hurt them.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's apparent that some theists are looking for more fellowship experiences, or religious to religious debate (where certain assumptions are accepted).

Wow, what a shock that religious people wish to speak to other religious people on a forum devoted to religious topics and not have to endlessly argue over if God even exists in the first place with atheists, before we can even discuss the actual topic.

 

[JustGeorge]

I may request access to the theist one some time. Does you or any other staff member happen to know if there are limits to how many private boards you can have on your account?

I don't believe there is.

We learn about people and we care. We avoid saying things that might hurt them.

This is what is most important, I think.

 

[F1fan]

Wow, what a shock that religious people wish to speak to other religious people on a forum devoted to religious topics and not have to endlessly argue over if God even exists in the first place with atheists, before we can even discuss the actual topic.

Whether any God exists IS a religious topic. Debate requires true premises, so whether a premise that includes a God concept is true or not is relevant.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Whether any God exists IS a religious topic. Debate requires true premises, so whether a premise that includes a God concept is true or not is relevant.

And most of us aren't interested in endlessly arguing about it because we already believe in God or gods. People try to debate over theology and such and the usual suspects always jump in to derail things with stuff like "well, prove that God and souls exist first!", and then the thread is ruined at times.

 

[F1fan]

This is what is most important, I think.

Learning what another member finds painful takes time, so it's on each member to assess their own experiences and learn what they themselves can handle and feels is valuable to them. I actually avoided responding a few times to certain members because I knew my comment would be something painful to them, and it served no purpose to continue.

I find it odd that CT started a discussion as to whether others have good reasons for him to remain a member. He's looking for something from the group that I think he needs to provide himself. Him looking for the group to provide it is one reason he's struggling as a member. We all need to find our own center and engage from that position.

 

[JustGeorge]

Debate isn't appropriate in every thread.

Learning what another member finds painful takes time, so it's on each member to assess their own experiences and learn what they themselves can handle and feels is valuable to them. I actually avoided responding a few times to certain members because I knew my comment would be something painful to them, and it served no purpose to continue.

Thanks. We all need to step back and do that sometimes.

I find it odd that CT started a discussion as to whether others have good reasons for him to remain a member. He's looking for something from the group that I think he needs to provide himself. Him looking for the group to provide it is one reason he's struggling as a member. We all need to find our own center and engage from that position.

Maybe he needs a bit of appreciation or affection, too. I do often see the belief that all should be an 'island' and provide all comfort and happiness themselves, but not all operate that way. Some of us are 'people persons', and for whatever reason, I feel that's viewed as a negative by some.

In the end, though, it takes all kinds to get along. If CT was here making these threads daily, it would be different, but being as its an uncommon occurrence, maybe its best just to let him know we appreciate him here on the boards.

 

[F1fan]

And most of us aren't interested in endlessly arguing about it because we already believe in God or gods. People try to debate over theology and such and the usual suspects always jump in to derail things with stuff like "well, prove that God and souls exist first!", and then the thread is ruined at times.

It's odd that if theists are going to assume a God exists then what is the point of debate if there are no rules of logic being applied? It's just chest thumping. Everyone states what they believe, and no regards to logic. This is exactly why open debate works. The non-believer points out the absurdity of what theists assume, and how this lack of standards can't achieve any real conclusion.

 

[RestlessSoul]

It's apparent that some theists are looking for more fellowship experiences, or religious to religious debate (where certain assumptions are accepted). Atheists can be brutally blunt and go straight for pointing out how assuming a God exists is the weak basis for belief. This process is the evolution of ideas, and some cannot compete in the environment of reason.

Yeah, that'll be it, I'm sure. Atheists are winning the battle of ideas, and God, declared dead 150 years ago, will soon be extinct. Or He would be, if only His followers weren't so stubborn, and would just listen to reason (of which atheists have the monopoly)

There is a flaw in this narrative though. I can't speak for the OP, but I have found there are a number of atheists on this forum who are well worth engaging with. They are the ones with interesting and original opinions, open minds, and a willingness to exchange ideas, and share perspectives, with those who think differently to them.

 

[F1fan]

Maybe he needs a bit of appreciation or affection, too. I do often see the belief that all should be an 'island' and provide all comfort and happiness themselves, but not all operate that way. Some of us are 'people persons', and for whatever reason, I feel that's viewed as a negative by some.

In the end, though, it takes all kinds to get along. If CT was here making these threads daily, it would be different, but being as its an uncommon occurrence, maybe its best just to let him know we appreciate him here on the boards.

My background is psychology and I did notice he has two sides to him, one sensitive and open to share without conditions, but then there was the occasional passive aggressive comment that was a bit of a pissing match. I suspect these latter comments were just him responding in frustration. But this is something I think he needs to slow down and see in himself. That sort of quiet balance is what many of us aim to find in our lives, not just be feral and reactionary creatures fighting for our territory on a website.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's odd that if theists are going to assume a God exists then what is the point of debate if there are no rules of logic being applied? It's just chest thumping. Everyone states what they believe, and no regards to logic. This is exactly why open debate works. The non-believer points out the absurdity of what theists assume, and how this lack of standards can't achieve any real conclusion.

I have no idea how to respond to such an odd post. Logic has nothing to do with it as neither theism or atheism are inherently rational, it depends on the specific example at hand. I'm not interested in debating the existence of God with anyone. I don't see why atheists would be interested in such things, either; after all, you've decided that you don't believe in Him.

 

[F1fan]

I have no idea how to respond to such an odd post. Logic has nothing to do with it as neither theism or atheism are inherently rational, it depends on the specific example at hand. I'm not interested in debating the existence of God with anyone. I don't see why atheists would be interested in such things, either; after all, you've decided that you don't believe in Him.

Him? It's a boy God? Congratulations.

But no, we don't choose to not believe in gods. We acknowledge there's no adequate evidence that justifies a conclusion that any exist outside of human imagination. The dismissiveness for logic by theists in debate is due to the recognition that atheists are correct. Theism is a non-rational belief.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Him? It's a boy God? Congratulations.

But no, we don't choose to not believe in gods. We acknowledge there's no adequate evidence that justifies a conclusion that any exist outside of human imagination. The dismissiveness for logic by theists in debate is due to the recognition that atheists are correct. Theism is a non-rational belief.

That's nice. Don't care. Bye-bye.

 

[Starlight]

Do not leave. I like you so much.

 

[Truthseeker]

On the contrary, I listen to @Conscious thoughts quite carefully. I read all of his posts, and have replied to many. I always try to do so thoughtfully and honestly. In this instance, he is talking about "negativity," but when talking about beliefs, there can be no question that not sharing a particular set of beliefs is taking a negative position with respect to those beliefs. To debate them requires (or ought to, in a good debate) giving reasons either against the belief in question, or for the contrary belief. And while that can seem negative to one who is sensitive, that's not generally the purpose.

Better to stay away from debates, if one is not disposed to like hearing contrary positions.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I think you have missed some relevant posts by him in this thread.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

You have no idea what you are talking about. I think you have missed some relevant posts by him in this thread.

If you say so. You must know so much more about my thought than I do. Please, if you know what I'll think next, let me know.

 

[SalixIncendium]

And while that can seem negative to one who is sensitive, that's not generally the purpose.

Poppycock! I've seen many here resort to some pretty heinous negativity with those that don't agree with them.

If this wasn't the case, I could spend much less time wearing this damnable mod hat.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Poppycock! I've seen many here resort to some pretty heinous negativity with those that don't agree with them.

If this wasn't the case, I could spend much less time wearing this damnable mod hat.

So what was your purpose in disagreeing with me, and resorting to the word "Poppycock," with an exclamation point?

 

[SalixIncendium]

So what was your purpose in disagreeing with me, and resorting to the word "Poppycock," with an exclamation point?

I have no purpose in life, other than sharing my fashion sense with all that wish to be...well...fashionable.