God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[PAUL MARKHAM]

What's so bizzarre about these?

Neither are real.

What about the rest?

 

[CG Didymus]

I do not “check” to see if the Baha'i Faith is being honest in what they say about older religions because I believe that Baha’u’llah is infallible and whatever Abdu’l-Baha wrote is true.

I do not care about the older religions because they are not relevant to the present age we live in.

So we can't look at the messengers of the past and know anything for certain. You can, because, without studying those other messengers and religions, you can say you know all you need to know about them because of what your religion says about them. However, other people that do know about those other religions can find inconsistencies and flaws in the message. But that doesn't matter to you, because you "know" your religion is the one that is right.

Yeah, I can see that. Just like I can see why conservative Christians reject the Baha'i Faith without learning about it. Because, what their religion says is true, therefore, the Baha'i Faith is false.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Depends on what type of rapture we are talking about. Faith healing is dangerous, it will generally lead to worse problems.

There is no proof of the rapture. Faith healing has killed more than it shaved.

 

[Spirit of Light]

But faith in which teaching of which religion? If I have "faith" in Judaism, I don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. If I have "faith" in Jesus, I believe Jesus saved me from the hell and the devil and I don't believe in either Islam or the Baha'i Faith.

What does Islam teach you about evolution versus creation? About heaven and hell? About Satan and demons? Is it the same what other religions say? And then is it consistent with what the Baha'i Faith says is true. That God used evolution. That heaven and hell aren't real places. That Satan and demons are real. And does Islam teach that Ishmael, not Isaac, was taken to be sacrificed by Abraham? Does Islam teach that Jesus did not die on the cross? Does Islam teach that Jesus came back to life after he was killed?

Because the Baha'i Faith teaches that it was Ishmael, not Isaac. That Jesus did die on the cross. But, that he did not come back to life. His physical body died and stayed dead. If the teachings are different, then which one does a person put their faith in? And how far do they carry that faith in their beliefs being correct, while the beliefs of other people in other religions are wrong?

Manybof the aspect in religions sound similar since all reliteaching do come from heaven, but each prophet or saviors has their own understanding of what God said to them so even they do speak of the same truth, the teachings are at different level of understanding.

In islam the teaching is monoetic from one God and we should only learn this teaching.

I can not speak for other religions or other mus, i have my understanding but it can be somewhat differentvthen what others tell you,

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I do not consider that a flaw because we can see them through what is written about them.

Yes, I can tell which ones are conmen and which ones are not.

How could I ever know what they did? There is really no way to verify what was written about the older Messengers.

I accepted the Messengers recognized by the Baha’i Faith because I adhere to the Covenant of Baha’u’llah.

I do not have to “look” at all the Messengers of the past. The past is gone. I do not care what they did because it is ancient history. I believe what Baha’u’llah and Abdu’l-Baha wrote about these Messengers. That is all I need to know.

I never said I looked at what the Messengers of the past did.

Yes, that is what I did because I believe that Baha’u’llah is infallible and that Abdu’l-Baha is the centre of the Covenant so whatever he said is the very truth.

I reject some but not all of what they say about them.

We believe they were established by Messengers of God but then after that they were corrupted by men. So no, we do not believe in the parts of the older religions that have been corrupted.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth. Their falsity hath, in some cases, been exposed when 172 the intervening veils were rent asunder. They themselves have acknowledged their failure in apprehending the meaning of any of the words of God.” Gleanings, pp. 171-172

I do not “check” to see if the Baha'i Faith is being honest in what they say about older religions because I believe that Baha’u’llah is infallible and whatever Abdu’l-Baha wrote is true.

I do not care about the older religions because they are not relevant to the present age we live in. As such I consider it a waste of time to talk about older religions unless one likes to study history. As Baha’u’llah wrote, dwelling on stories that are past is a grave mistake and a grievous transgression:

“…… To this testify the records of the sacred books. Were the details to be mentioned, this epistle would swell into a book. Moreover, it is not Our wish to relate the stories of the days that are past. God is Our witness that what We even now mention is due solely to Our tender affection for thee, that haply the poor of the earth may attain the shores of the sea of wealth, the ignorant be led unto the ocean of divine knowledge, and they that thirst for understanding partake of the Salsabíl of divine wisdom. Otherwise, this servant regardeth the consideration of such records a grave mistake and a grievous transgression.”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 63

I believe in Baha'u'llah and all the Messengers of the past that are recognized by the Baha’i Faith but I don’t believe in the parts of the religions of the past that have been corrupted by man.

Nothing that the Baha’i Faith says about older religions is “made up.” It came from God. By contrast, practically everything the other religions believe is made up by men.

References to Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses are in The Kitáb-i-Íqán

Baha’u’llah got His knowledge from God.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

Krishna is too remote in history to know anything about. That is one reason why Baha’u’llah and Abdu’l-Baha did not write about Hinduism. The other reason is that it is not relevant to this age.

Are any ancient Hindu scriptures available in their original form?

No not a single hindu scripture is available in its original form because hindus scriptures are very old. No one can find its original written date. In the ancient times, people used to write on leaf in india but they were easily destructible so they were repeated time to time to save the content. Indian history dates back to thousands of years back as now modern days archeologist found many lord shiva statues of stone age. Scientist found out that Ram setu which linked India to Sri lanka is man made as described Ramayan but you cannot find the original writing of ramayan which was possibly destroyed. Many hindus pandulipi is in Germany nowadys as they were taken by them in the pursue of supernatural power and knowledge. Atomic bomb was actually designed by a German scientist based on those pandu lipi. So nowadays no one knows that are there any original scriptures or not. Possibly not.!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sanskrit manuscripts of the Upanishads, Puranas, Itihasas are available. There is of course no way to know if these manuscripts are original or not. There is no manuscript of the Vedic Samhitas because they were not written down till a few centuries ago.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No. In fact, there are no Hindu scriptures.

Ideas have been passed on since ages via word of mouth and at a later time (maybe after thousands of years) they were written down. The Hindu scriptures have a huge amount of priestly superstitions in them and the reader has to filter them through his own intelligence.

Are any ancient Hindu scriptures available in their original form? - Quora

While looking through my Word documents I stumbled upon what Abdu’l-Baha said about the older religions. In short, the decline of religion is the cause of the many problems we see in the world today.

“Alas! that humanity is completely submerged in imitations and unrealities notwithstanding the truth of divine religion has ever remained the same. Superstitions have obscured the fundamental reality, the world is darkened and the light of religion is not apparent. This darkness is conducive to differences and dissensions; rites and dogmas are many and various; therefore discord has arisen among the religious systems whereas religion is for the unification of mankind. True religion is the source of love and agreement amongst men, the cause of the development of praiseworthy qualities; but the people are holding to the counterfeit and imitation, negligent of the reality which unifies; so they are bereft and deprived of the radiance of religion. They follow superstitions inherited from their fathers and ancestors. To such an extent has this prevailed that they have taken away the heavenly light of divine truth and sit in the darkness of imitations and imaginations. That which was meant to be conducive to life has become the cause of death; that which should have been an evidence of knowledge is now a proof of ignorance; that which was a factor in the sublimity of human nature has proved to be its degradation. Therefore the realm of the religionist has gradually narrowed and darkened and the sphere of the materialist has widened and advanced; for the religionist has held to imitation and counterfeit, neglecting and discarding holiness and the sacred reality of religion. When the sun sets it is the time for bats to fly. They come forth because they are creatures of the night. When the lights of religion become darkened the materialists appear. They are the bats of night. The decline of religion is their time of activity; they seek the shadows when the world is darkened and clouds have spread over it.” (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity, p. 71)

TB admits here she believes every thing Bahaullah says. Even without thinking or even knowing it's BS.

THE what about his instructions on menstruation? Do you agree with Bahaullah?

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Religious beliefs cannot be proven.

But they can be disproven and have been.

 

[Aupmanyav]

@CG Dydimus, Bahais are an off-shoot of Shi Islam. Their connection with other Abrahamic religions is incidental.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

The Bahaullah quote you used to prove messengers doesn't name names or prove anything.

 

[Trailblazer]

Baha'is accept what ever Bahaullah says even when we know he's wrong.

Adam is a fictional character tied to creation of the Earth 6000 years ago.

Noah a fictional character tied to the flood. Another event that didn't happen. Probably about the melting of the Ice Age.

Abraham only what is written in bibles that Bahaullah doesn't believe.

Moses another fictional character. No Egyptian records of him, Jews in Egypt, Jews exodus or them taking over Caanan a province of Egypt at the time.

But Bahaullah says they were messengers and Baha'is believe.

You cannot PROVE that any of that is wrong.... You can only BELIEVE it is wrong.

Just because there are no records that does not mean a Prophet/Messenger did not exist.

That is YOUR problem..

 

[Trailblazer]

The Bahaullah quote you used to prove messengers doesn't name names or prove anything.

What quote?

I am not trying to prove anything.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, I can tell which ones are conmen and which ones are not.

How can you tell without learning something about those religions? Mormonism? Fake or real? Sikhism? Started by a conman or a prophet of God? Mirza Ghulam Ahmad? The Mahdi or not? Sri Sathya Sai Baba? Conman or for real? Paul, the apostle? True or a fake? Jesus? Did he fake rising from the dead? What "Jesus" his real name? Krishna? An incarnation of Vishnu or a myth?

And then back to the ones you believe are for real. Why Adam? Why Noah? Why even Krishna? We don't know anything real about them. What we do know about them is probably fictional. So why make them "manifestations" of God? Only because Baha'u'llah said so. Did Jesus say so? He never made Adam, Noah or Krishna "manifestations". And with Noah, Baha'u'llah makes it sound like Noah was 950 years old? How do Baha'is explain that? A mistake? A flaw?

You can only give me your opinion, or guess, based on what you believe your religion teaches. You're not going to research this and "know" and show, by what these people say and believe, why they are not who they claim to be. But are they conmen? Still, you won't make a thorough study. You reject them based on what the Baha'i Faith teaches you. Again, just like conservative Christianity rejects the Baha'i Faith. It gets rejected, because it doesn't agree with their religion. Sure, you don't have time or the desire to do the "homework", who does? But, you are the one saying that you can tell which ones are conmen.

 

[CG Didymus]

What quote?

I am not trying to prove anything.

Okay, what do you call the thing that you are doing? Explaining? Explaining what you believe to be true? Correcting people's misinterpretations of the Baha'i Faith? By showing them what Baha'is really believe?

 

[CG Didymus]

There is no proof of the rapture. Faith healing has killed more than it shaved.

Good God, I wouldn't trust a faith healer with a straight razor! Oh wait, you meant "saved"... Okay, nevermind.

 

[CG Didymus]

Manybof the aspect in religions sound similar since all reliteaching do come from heaven, but each prophet or saviors has their own understanding of what God said to them so even they do speak of the same truth, the teachings are at different level of understanding.

In islam the teaching is monoetic from one God and we should only learn this teaching.

I can not speak for other religions or other mus, i have my understanding but it can be somewhat differentvthen what others tell you,

Okay, thanks

 

[CG Didymus]

@CG Dydimus, Bahais are an off-shoot of Shi Islam. Their connection with other Abrahamic religions is incidental.

Yes, I've told them a few times that I think they are a liberal form of Shia Islam.

Funny though, about Abraham, they have genealogical records of Baha'u'llah going all the way back to Abraham. Who kept those records? And nobody kept a record of anything else from back in those days? The things didn't get written down until way later? And what about the Bible "records" of the genealogy going from Abraham back to Adam? I doubt very much that Baha'is believe that is accurate.

 

[Trailblazer]

However, other people that do know about those other religions can find inconsistencies and flaws in the message. But that doesn't matter to you, because you "know" your religion is the one that is right.

Nobody has found any inconsistencies or flaws in the message of Baha'u'llah.
The older scriptures are NOT authentic so those cannot be used to say there are inconsistencies and flaws.

Yeah, I can see that. Just like I can see why conservative Christians reject the Baha'i Faith without learning about it. Because, what their religion says is true, therefore, the Baha'i Faith is false.

No, it is not the same because three Messengers of God have some after Jesus -- Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah -- and Christians have rejected all of them and cling to Jesus, believing He was the Only Way. They do not even bother to look at any other religions and they reject the prophecies that were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah.

By stark contrast, no religions have been revealed since the Baha'i Faith, so I believe Baha'u'llah has the final say on all matters related to religion. That is why I have no need to learn about about any of the older religions, unless I want to. You are not a Baha'i so you are in a different boat, sailing around, looking at all the older religions which sailed into the sunset long, long ago.

 

[Trailblazer]

TB admits here she believes every thing Bahaullah says. Even without thinking or even knowing it's BS.

I have thought about it and read about it for 50 years. That is how I know it is not BS.

THE what about his instructions on menstruation? Do you agree with Bahaullah?

Whether I agree with it or not does not matter. I accept it as a Baha'i Law.

 

[Trailblazer]

But they can be disproven and have been.

No, they have not been disproven. Give it up for lost.

 

[CG Didymus]

Adam is a fictional character tied to creation of the Earth 6000 years ago.

Noah a fictional character tied to the flood. Another event that didn't happen. Probably about the melting of the Ice Age.

Abraham only what is written in bibles that Bahaullah doesn't believe.

Moses another fictional character. No Egyptian records of him, Jews in Egypt, Jews exodus or them taking over Caanan a province of Egypt at the time.

Scientific studies have shown that these things aren't accurate. Earth is older than 6000 years. There was no world wide flood 4000 years ago.

You cannot PROVE that any of that is wrong.... You can only BELIEVE it is wrong.

Just because there are no records that does not mean a Prophet/Messenger did not exist.

That is YOUR problem..

We believed you when you said those were just "stories". Now you say they are true? No, you don't. You only say the people you make to be manifestations are true... just the stories about them are fake. Again, Baha'is find a way to have it both ways. Bible? Not literal. Bible characters? Oh yes, they were real.

 

[CG Didymus]

Nobody has found any inconsistencies or flaws in the message of Baha'u'llah.
The older scriptures are NOT authentic so those cannot be used to say there are inconsistencies and flaws.

No, it is not the same because three Messengers of God have some after Jesus -- Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah -- and Christians have rejected all of them and cling to Jesus, believing He was the Only Way. They do not even bother to look at any other religions and they reject the prophecies that were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah.

By stark contrast, no religions have been revealed since the Baha'i Faith, so I believe Baha'u'llah has the final say on all matters related to religion. That is why I have no need to learn about about any of the older religions, unless I want to. You are not a Baha'i so you are in a different boat, sailing around, looking at all the older religions which sailed into the sunset long, long ago.

How long did God tell the Jews to keep his laws? Until the next manifestation came and updated them or did he say "forever"? Correct answer "forever". Now, what does the Hebrew word translated "forever" really mean? Forever, or just for a while? Obviously it can't mean "forever" because the laws got dumped by Christians and then replaced by Islam and the Baha'i Faith. So "forever" does not mean "forever". Great, God misled his people. But God is not inconsistent with what he tells his people? And, if he does tell people different things as absolute true that aren't, that is not a flaw?

Of course it is, but Baha'is wiggle out of it by saying people changed the message. But, if people can change the message God sent... isn't that a flaw?