God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[TransmutingSoul]

Because we had big bloody armies to teach the people. Even then there are more people in a religion, not Christianity than in it.

Interestingly this is foretold in the Bible. The Jewish Faith is one of obeying the Law, the Christian Faith gave us a glimpse of our individual connection with the Messenger and our One God. But the Bible foretold we would not get it right, thus Muhammad came, cleared up some mistakes made by Christianity, and showed us that our personal connection to God required submission unto God's Laws, it was again a more law based faith.

The Message of Baha'u'llah has combined the Jewish, Christain, Muslim and other Faiths foundations into a new Temple, a new way of looking at these issues.

It is all based in our oneness under One God.

Even if one does not want to yet accept there is a God, then that oneness an be seen as the primal point of existance, that we have all come from a possible big bang. None of us have power over what brought us into being, it is not logical we can understand how we are created. We will always fall short of that.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So why does it say follow governments, same language, etc.

Anarchy an not work, we must submit to a code of laws, that is logically evident. Look what happens when people think they are above the laws. At the same time if a law is not just, it must be changed in a peaceful way with negotiation.

Up to the current times, man has not had the capacity to negotiate without anger. I see times are changing and it can be done without resort to violence and war.

Baha'u'llah has offered we should adopt a world language which will be taught along with our mother tounge. As such we will retain a diverse identity and also be able to communicate across all Nations.

To an Aussie that will be 'Bloody Beaut Mate'!

Likewise the Nations will have their own rule, it may be even Kings and Queens come back. All of these will elect the world body who all will submit too.

Again big topic and many years of contemplation sees this is logical approach to world unity.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Bahaullah said he was asleep and awoken by the spirit. Not about us getting off our couches.

Sorry I am aware of those passages and sumeriased my thoughts, here are a couple that I was considering.

This is to the religious divines who instruct others, but I also see it as a personal reflection and try to act upon it myself y becoming less heedless of what God has offered us;

".. In the eighth of the most holy lines, in the fifth Tablet of Paradise, He saith:
O YE THAT ARE LYING AS DEAD ON THE COUCH OF HEEDLESSNESS! Ages have passed and your precious lives are well-nigh ended, yet not a single breath of purity hath reached Our court of holiness from you. Though immersed in the ocean of misbelief, yet with your lips ye profess the one true faith of God. Him whom I abhor ye have loved, and of My foe ye have made a friend. Notwithstanding, ye walk on My earth complacent and self-satisfied, heedless that My earth is weary of you and everything 29 within it shunneth you. Were ye but to open your eyes, ye would, in truth, prefer a myriad griefs unto this joy, and would count death itself better than this life... "

This is an individual meditation.

"O BOND SLAVE OF THE WORLD! Many a dawn hath the breeze of My loving-kindness wafted over thee and found thee upon the bed of heedlessness fast asleep. Bewailing then thy plight it returned whence it came..."

Basically I see we are asleep when we are not considering God and we have awaken when we start looking for God.

Regards Tony

 

[Ancient Soul]

Just like I have always stated, you blindly believe what you are told to believe.

And never mind trying your usual word games, be it in person or written down, you are being TOLD that it's from "god", and blindly believe it for NO GOOD REASON. From there you blindly believe what the Baha'i cult leaders tell you it all means. And yes you do, since you keep on presenting "interpretations" from your cult leaders as "proof", like in your trying to "prove" to me how Bahá’u’lláh "foretold" the current events in America. Which "proved" no such thing, but only made you look foolish.

Just like I have always stated, I bevel what I do based upon my OWN individual investigation.

Nobody TELLS me what to believe.

Ha, so as usual you edited out the part of my post you didn't want to face and are trying your usual word game of AVOIDANCE anyway.

Soooooooooooo predictable.

 

[Ancient Soul]

So answer it here. Bahaullah mentions being visited by god how many times? If he was busy writing all the tablets did he have time to stop and listen, did god approve any of the tablets or did he get one dream and just poured out endless scripts?

So is that one visit or multiple visits and approving the writings?

The connection of the Manifestation with God is like that of the Sun in the perfect mirror. To us they areal we an know of the Sun and we can with our acceptance mirror them.

They are like a perfect polished mirror, so all we see reflected is the Attributes of the Holy Spirit, we can never know the Essence of their being, let alone know the Essence of God.

This subject is immense and years of study only touches on the potential we All have within.

Faith is about finding that potential and to start forming our spiritual limbs for the life to come. The only thing that holds us back from development, is the choices we make.

Regards Tony

I see you age going for the "If you cannot answer someone's question, baffle them with BS tactic".

 

[Trailblazer]

Ha, so as usual you edited out the part of my post you didn't want to face and are trying your usual word game of AVOIDANCE anyway.

Soooooooooooo predictable.

No, I edited the part that does not apply to me, the gobbledygook you IMAGINE applies to me.

I have no need to AVOID what does not apply to me.... I know myself better than you do. Do I speak for you and tell you what applies to YOU? No, because I know that is wrong behavior, thanks to Baha'u'llah.

66: O EMIGRANTS! The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others.

The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 45

 

[Trailblazer]

I have hard evidence the Adam, Flood, plagues, Jericho, Drowning of the Egyptian Army are pure fiction. So all the events linked to these prophets is false.

I do not know what evidence you have but I never claimed that any of those Bible stories ever took place.
I only said I believe that Adam, Abraham, Noah, and Moses existed.

So are you saying Adam, Abraham, Noah, Moses, etc were the names of people not in the bible?

No, I am saying they are names of people in the Bible, people who existed in history.

Bahaullah is good at predicting things the world can see. He's vague at predicting other things, never gives specific dates because he knows dates will prove him wrong.

Sorry, but that was not the reason He did not give dates. The only reason he ever predicted these things was as warnings to kings and rulers and religious leaders, warning them what would happen f people did not respond to His message. What He predicted was never intended to be prophecies that would prove who He was, but everything He predicted came to pass just as He warned.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Just like I have always stated, you blindly believe what you are told to believe.

And never mind trying your usual word games, be it in person or written down, you are being TOLD that it's from "god", and blindly believe it for NO GOOD REASON. From there you blindly believe what the Baha'i cult leaders tell you it all means. And yes you do, since you keep on presenting "interpretations" from your cult leaders as "proof", like in your trying to "prove" to me how Bahá’u’lláh "foretold" the current events in America. Which "proved" no such thing, but only made you look foolish.

God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

Just like I have always stated, I bevel what I do based upon my OWN individual investigation.

Nobody TELLS me what to believe.

Ha, so as usual you edited out the part of my post you didn't want to face and are trying your usual word game of AVOIDANCE anyway.

Soooooooooooo predictable.

No, I edited the part that does not apply to me, the gobbledygook you IMAGINE applies to me.

I have no need to AVOID what does not apply to me.... I know myself better than you do. Do I speak for you and tell you what applies to YOU? No, because I know that is wrong behavior, thanks to Baha'u'llah.

66: O EMIGRANTS! The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others.

The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 45

I re-posted the conversation so that everyone can see your tactic of avoidance.

You purposely edited out this part as can be seen if they click on the link, if it shows up that is:

"And never mind trying your usual word games, be it in person or written down, you are being TOLD that it's from "god", and blindly believe it for NO GOOD REASON. From there you blindly believe what the Baha'i cult leaders tell you it all means. And yes you do, since you keep on presenting "interpretations" from your cult leaders as "proof", like in your trying to "prove" to me how Bahá’u’lláh "foretold" the current events in America. Which "proved" no such thing, but only made you look foolish."

Then after taking it out, you tried the word game exactly as I stated you would.

It doesn't look good to use deceit on a public forum.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Abdu'l-Bahá is a false prophet as He predicted that world peace would be established by 1957;

That has never been my understanding and personally I have not seen that in the writings. I have read this book a few times and have an early copy of it. My understanding that world peace would have been established in the years 1900 to 2000. We are too close to it to see if that is the case, but with the League and then the United Nations, I see that is a firm foundation for our future peace, even if it again morphs into a different body with a different name. It is saiud the foundation of peace will be a world parliament.

As noted above 1957 is seen to be the establishment of the Baha'i Faith in all Nations. An amazing feat really.

The Bahá'ís attempted to conceal the fact that His prophecy was not fulfilled by revising "Bahá'u'lláh and the New Era" after the fact.

As noted before, there is an issue when you mix what is not an official writing with a writing that was written after the talk from someones memory. Also it was translated on the spot before the pilgrim wrote it later from memory, there is no official text to refer back to. As such, pilgrim notes are a good reference for interest only. The Universal House of Justice has rightly remove any pilgrim note from official writings about the faith and the original copy of Baha'u'llah obviously contained some of this material.

The book does not hide this, the notes tell of the publication dates and what was done. Mine is a 1974 copy. First printed in 1923, 2nd impression in 1925, 1st revision 1940, 2nd 1952, then 1974.

1,335 days suddenly becomes 1,335 years. So why did they say days?

This is Bible prophecy, each day for a year. It is widely accepted by the Christians this is correct and it was William Miller that first used to to predict 1844. Day-year principle - Wikipedia

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

We're on the brink of going to Mars. If the astronauts report there is no life on Mars will you give up on this belief there might be? Or just keep saying because they didn't find it that doesn't prove it isn't there?

Baha'u'llah did not say there was life on Mars. It is all in the interpretation and much of scripture is not literal, it is figurative. So when He said that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute, that was not necessarily to be interpreted literally but rather He was trying to convey that most planets have life on them. I'll bet that we read that in Arabic or Persian the word he used would not mean "every."

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I see you age going for the "If you cannot answer someone's question, baffle them with BS tactic".

Or give them an answer, even if they are yet to see it is an answer.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Baha'u'llah did not say there was life on Mars. It is all in the interpretation and much of scripture is not literal, it is figurative. So when He said that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute, that was not necessarily to be interpreted literally but rather He was trying to convey that most planets have life on them. I'll bet that we read that in Arabic or Persian the word he used would not mean "every."

Personally I see what Baha'u'llah wrote here is correct.

@PAUL MARKHAM

"Verily I say, the creation of God embraceth worlds besides this world, and creatures apart from these creatures. In each of these worlds He hath ordained things which none can search except Himself, the All-Searching, the All-Wise." Bahá’u’lláh, Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh p. 187-188

"Regarding the passage on p. 163 of the 'Gleanings'; the creatures which Bahá’u’lláh states to be found in every planet cannot be considered to be necessarily similar or different from human beings on this earth. Bahá’u’lláh does not specifically state whether such creatures are like or unlike us. He simply refers to the fact that there are creatures in every planet. It remains for science to discover one day the exact nature of these creatures.' Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance p. 478

The earth has its inhabitants, the water and the air contain many living beings and all the elements have their nature spirits, then how is it possible to conceive that these stupendous stellar bodies are not inhabited? Verily, they are peopled, but let it be known that the dwellers accord with the elements of their respective spheres. These living beings do not have states of consciousness like unto those who live on the surface of this globe: the power of adaptation and environment moulds their bodies and states of consciousness, just as our bodies and minds are suited to our planet. For example, we have birds that live in the air, those that live on the earth and those that live in the sea... The components of the sun differ from those of this earth, for there are certain light and life-giving elements radiating from the sun. Exactly the same elements may exist in two bodies, but in varying quantities. For instance, there is fire and air in water, but the allotted measure is small in proportion. They have discovered that there is a great quantity of radium in the sun; the same element is found on the earth, but in a much smaller degree. Beings who inhabit those distant luminous bodies are attuned to the elements that have gone into their composition of their respective spheres."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Divine Philosophy, p. 114-115

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

I re-posted the conversation so that everyone can see your tactic of avoidance.

What a waste if time to quote a bunch of things I said just to try to humiliate me.

Ask me if I care what anyone thinks of me. I could not care less. My image on a forum means nothing to me. The only thing that matters is that I know I am honest and that I treat other people kindly and with dignity and respect. Pointing out other people's behavior and their faults is not my modus operandi and that is another teaching I got from my religion.

“The most hateful characteristic of man is fault-finding.” (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Star of the West, Vol. IV, No.11, p. 192)

“Beware lest ye offend the feelings of anyone, or sadden the heart of any person,or move the tongue in reproach of and finding fault with anybody, whether he is friend or stranger, believer or enemy . . . Beware, beware that any one rebuke or reproach a soul, though he may be an ill-wisher and an ill-doer.” (Abdu’l-Bahá, Tablets of Abdu’l-Bahá v1, p. 44)

“All religions teach that we should love one another; that we should seek out our own shortcomings before we presume to condemn the faults of others, that we must not consider ourselves superior to our neighbours! We must be careful not to exalt ourselves lest we be humiliated.” (Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, p. 147)

The more you criticize me or others the worse you make yourself look to good people on this forum who never do that, but those people are usually too nice to tell you that. I am only telling you as a courtesy. If you were reading and noticing how other people treat other people on this forum, you would realize how different you are from the norm, but I guess looking at your own behavior is not something you do because you are too busy looking at the behavior and faults of others.

26: O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10

 

[Trailblazer]

Bahaullah, Shoghi Effendi, Abdul Baha tell you what to believe.

Nobody tells me what to believe. I have free will so I decide for myself.

Even when Bahaullah plainly says he was asleep, you change it he was awake.

Sorry you did not understand the metaphor even after I explained it to you.

 

[Aupmanyav]

He was trying to convey that most planets have life on them.

That is not true. There is hardly any chance of life on Venus and Mars, and life on the rest of planets is impossible. Hath, not hath.

 

[Trailblazer]

Or give them an answer, even if they are yet to see it is an answer.

Regards Tony

How novel, actually answering the questions people ask instead of constantly criticizing them and trying to make them look bad.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is not true. There is hardly any chance of life on Venus and Mars, and life on the rest of planets is impossible. Hath, not hath.

Baha'u'llah was not necessarily talking about planets in THIS solar system.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Or give them an answer, even if they are yet to see it is an answer.

Regards Tony

I can see that you've gotten the bombastic gobbledygook of Bahá’u’lláh down pat, with a touch of your own condescending arrogance!

Time to move up the ego driven cult leader wannabe ladder!

 

[Trailblazer]

I can see that you've gotten the bombastic gobbledygook of Bahá’u’lláh down pat, with a touch of your own condescending arrogance!

Time to move up the ego driven cult leader wannabe ladder!

Why not speak for yourself instead of CONSTANTLY criticizing other people?

What does that do for your ego?
Everyone else can see it even if you can't.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I only said I believe that Adam, Abraham, Noah, and Moses existed.

Like for everything else, you have no proof of Adam, Abraham, Noah and Moses to be historical. All your beliefs are without foundation.

Baha'u'llah was not necessarily talking about planets in THIS solar system.

If there are planets without life in THIS Solar system, why do you think it would be any different in any other solar system? The plain thing is that the Iranian preacher was not educated and knew nothing of science, only Injeel and Quran.

Why not speak for yourself instead of CONSTANTLY criticizing other people?

If you present falsehood, then it will naturally be criticized.