God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[CG Didymus]

Personally I see what Baha'u'llah wrote here is correct.

@PAUL MARKHAM

"Verily I say, the creation of God embraceth worlds besides this world, and creatures apart from these creatures. In each of these worlds He hath ordained things which none can search except Himself, the All-Searching, the All-Wise." Bahá’u’lláh, Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh p. 187-188

"Regarding the passage on p. 163 of the 'Gleanings'; the creatures which Bahá’u’lláh states to be found in every planet cannot be considered to be necessarily similar or different from human beings on this earth. Bahá’u’lláh does not specifically state whether such creatures are like or unlike us. He simply refers to the fact that there are creatures in every planet. It remains for science to discover one day the exact nature of these creatures.' Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance p. 478

The earth has its inhabitants, the water and the air contain many living beings and all the elements have their nature spirits, then how is it possible to conceive that these stupendous stellar bodies are not inhabited? Verily, they are peopled, but let it be known that the dwellers accord with the elements of their respective spheres. These living beings do not have states of consciousness like unto those who live on the surface of this globe: the power of adaptation and environment moulds their bodies and states of consciousness, just as our bodies and minds are suited to our planet. For example, we have birds that live in the air, those that live on the earth and those that live in the sea... The components of the sun differ from those of this earth, for there are certain light and life-giving elements radiating from the sun. Exactly the same elements may exist in two bodies, but in varying quantities. For instance, there is fire and air in water, but the allotted measure is small in proportion. They have discovered that there is a great quantity of radium in the sun; the same element is found on the earth, but in a much smaller degree. Beings who inhabit those distant luminous bodies are attuned to the elements that have gone into their composition of their respective spheres."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Divine Philosophy, p. 114-115

Regards Tony

So we're back to taking it literally?

 

[Trailblazer]

Well that clears it up... even the Baha'i writings shouldn't be taken literally. For a while there I thought we were going to have to check every planet for creatures to prove Baha'u'llah wrong. Oh, where did that quote come from and who did the translation?

No, not everything Baha'u'llah wrote can be taken literally, as many of His Writings contain metaphors.
However, Tony seems to believe that this quote about life on all the planets is literally true, so maybe it is. We Bahais are not all the same, we do see things differently.

Oh, where did that quote come from and who did the translation?

"who compiled gleanings from the writings of bahaullah?"

Shoghi Effendi
Gleanings from the Writings of Baháʼu'lláh is a compilation of selected tablets and extracts from tablets by Baháʼu'lláh, the founder of the Baháʼí Faith. Shoghi Effendi, Guardian of the Baháʼí Faith from 1921 to 1957, made the selection and performed the translation, which was first published 1935.

Gleanings from the Writings of Baháʼu'lláh - Wikipedia

 

[Trailblazer]

You play games of avoidance with evidence.

Give me an example.

Bear in mind that just because YOU do not consider something evidence that does not mean it is not evidence to ME.

 

[CG Didymus]

The only thing that matters is that I know I am honest and that I treat other people kindly and with dignity and respect. Pointing out other people's behavior and their faults is not my modus operandi and that is another teaching I got from my religion.

And you really believe this? You know it's okay. None of us expects you to be perfect. You can admit to a few times losing it and disrespecting others.

 

[ppp]

Give me an example.

Give me evidence that there is a god for any one to be a messenger of.

 

[Trailblazer]

And you really believe this? You know it's okay. None of us expects you to be perfect. You can admit to a few times losing it and disrespecting others.

I will admit it if you give me some examples. That would be just. But to accuse me with no evidence to back it up is unjust.

Who did I disrespect?

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha'u'llah was not necessarily talking about planets in THIS solar system.

So all the other planets orbiting other stars all have creatures of some sort. But that doesn't include this solar system? What happened to your "figurative" explanation?

 

[Trailblazer]

Give me evidence that there is a god for any one to be a messenger of.

I have said time and again that I believe the Messengers are the evidence for God...

That is something you disagree with but that does not mean I avoided the question.

 

[Trailblazer]

So all the other planets orbiting other stars all have creatures of some sort. But that doesn't include this solar system? What happened to your "figurative" explanation?

Honestly, I don't really know, maybe it was intended to be figurative, or maybe it was intended to be literal. Only Baha'u'llah knows.

When I do not know something I say so. I can have conjectures but that is all I have.

 

[CG Didymus]

I can see that you've gotten the bombastic gobbledygook of Bahá’u’lláh down pat, with a touch of your own condescending arrogance!

Time to move up the ego driven cult leader wannabe ladder!

"If you weren't so blind you'd see. And when you do finally see, you will know how blind you were." Yeah, I'm starting to get it. Talk in riddles that confounds the people into thinking you're really saying something important. How 'bout this one... "You will find the answers to your questions when you stop trying to fight it, and just let the wafting of the divine breezes do their wafting."

 

[ppp]

I have said time and again that I believe the Messengers are the evidence for God...

If the question was "what is evidence for god" then that might have been a start at an answer. But what I asked was, Give me evidence that there is a god for any one to be a messenger of. Thank you for the demonstration.

 

[CG Didymus]

No, not everything Baha'u'llah wrote can be taken literally, as many of His Writings contain metaphors.
However, Tony seems to believe that this quote about life on all the planets is literally true, so maybe it is. We Bahais are not all the same, we do see things differently.

"who compiled gleanings from the writings of bahaullah?"

Shoghi Effendi
Gleanings from the Writings of Baháʼu'lláh is a compilation of selected tablets and extracts from tablets by Baháʼu'lláh, the founder of the Baháʼí Faith. Shoghi Effendi, Guardian of the Baháʼí Faith from 1921 to 1957, made the selection and performed the translation, which was first published 1935.

Gleanings from the Writings of Baháʼu'lláh - Wikipedia

Baha'u'llah also made it sound like Noah lived to be 950 years old. We know that's not what he meant. But once we start making some things figurative, where does it end?

 

[Trailblazer]

If the question was "what is evidence for god" then that might have been a start at an answer. But what I asked was, Give me evidence that there is a god for any one to be a messenger of. Thank you for the demonstration.

"what is evidence for god"
"Give me evidence that there is a god for any one to be a messenger of."

The question is the same.
I answered the question -- Messengers.

"for any one to be a messenger of" is just a deflection tactic.
Thank you for the demonstration.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Of course, we either have to wait until we are visited, or we visit the places.

No visits, no visitors. We are practically stranded on this blue ball like Napoleon was on St. Helena.

 

[Trailblazer]

Baha'u'llah also made it sound like Noah lived to be 950 years old. We know that's not what he meant. But once we start making some things figurative, where does it end?

It doesn't end. We are left with the task of determining what is literal and what is figurative.

 

[ppp]

The question is the same.

Not at all. There could be a god for whom no one is a messenger. In which case your "messengers of god" are mistaken.

 

[Aupmanyav]

No, He was not the one with the mission from God. I quoted that to make a specific point.
He was admonishing the religious leaders who were Christians to recognize Him as the return of Christ.

Right. What he had to say is nothing different from what you or I may say.
Why would anyone accept without any evidence what a snake-oil seller says ?

 

[Trailblazer]

Not at all. There could be a god for whom no one is a messenger. In which case your "messengers of god" are mistaken.

That's true. There could be a deist God who does not communicate to humans.

 

[Trailblazer]

Right. What he had to say is nothing different from what you or I may say.
Why would anyone accept without any evidence what a snake-oil seller says ?

It all depends upon what you consider evidence.

 

[ppp]

That's true. There could be a deist God who does not communicate to humans.

Or a non-deist god who only communicates with tree shrews. Or a certain type of fern on a little planet 140 ly from here. Or a kerjillion other possibilities where your messengers are mistaken.