God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[Aupmanyav]

Have you ever thought about why you have a need to rank on Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith?

You create topics and posts that require replies. Arthra does not do that and does not get into controversies. You are into evangelism, he is not. See the difference?

We have been told we will know the answer in the future. Big huge deal.

So, for 800 more years (1000 - 200 years since the Iranian preacher), you will not have women in your House of Justice. I think Allah needs to send a new manifestation immediately.

 

[CG Didymus]

Grab on, your choice.

Regards Tony

So do Baha'is respect the beliefs of others or no? Or, is it okay to be disrespectful to those that don't believe in the Baha'i Faith and are disrespectful to you... especially if they started it?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What can Baha'is say except that he is a fraud. Yet, with someone like Joseph Smith, I don't think one Baha'i has ever called his religious movement false. And when I said that the Book of Mormon says that Jesus came to the Americas, only one Baha'i said that can't be true.

What the Baha'i can say is that he was taught the Message of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, had been gifted many writings from them and then later made the claim himself.

Spoiler

— Sulaymán Khan Ilyas Tankabni, popularly known as Jamál Effendi, came to the Indian subcontinent on the instruction of Bahá’u’lláh. He spread the message of the Baha’i Faith from 1872-1898 in areas including the Indian subcontinent, Burma, Kashmir, Afghanistan and Turkey. Jamál Effendi had a comprehensive meeting with Mirza Ghulam Ahmed in which he gave Mirza Ghulam Ahmed the glad-tidings of the appearance of The Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. He also granted him with a trunk filled with Baha’i Writings for him to study them. Mirza Ghulam Ahmed in his book Al-Balagh (also known as Faryad-e-Dard) mentions a detailed list of his academic studies where he also mentions The Bábi literature. Before claiming to be the Mehdi and the second coming of the Christ, he had read the Bábi and Baha’i literature. (Personal opinion: It is apparent that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed took help from the Bábi and Baha’i literature in trying to justify his later claims. It also gives me hints as to why some of the reformative teachings of Ahmadiyya Movement are similar to the Baha’i Writings for example the forbiddance of physical Jihad, ignoring for a moment that Ahmedis did not follow it faithfully. It is also of mention here that some views of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed were exactly in accordance with the conventionally held Islamic beliefs and later on they came in accordance with the Baha’I Faith. For example, Mirza Ghulam Ahmed first had the belief that Jesus Christ was taken up in the skies with his bodily existence and did not die on the cross. But, later on, when he made the claim to be the symbolic second coming of the Christ, he changed his view and brought it in alignment with the Baha’i view that Christ had died on the cross and that the second coming is spiritual and not physical.)

Did Mirza Ghulam Ahmad copy his claims from the Baha’i?

So, your choice, where do you think he got his ideas from?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So do Baha'is respect the beliefs of others or no? Or, is it okay to be disrespectful to those that don't believe in the Baha'i Faith and are disrespectful to you... especially if they started it?

Some may see a lifeline as disrespectful. Some may see it as a genuine offer of a chance of moving towards a safer world. Then there are those saying and asking why Baha'i do not do more, and when they do more, still find fault.

Tell me how there can be a win win situation?

We could be more like Arthra, that may indeed be better.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

What the Baha'i can say is that he was taught the Message of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, had been gifted many writings from them and then later made the claim himself.

Spoiler

— Sulaymán Khan Ilyas Tankabni, popularly known as Jamál Effendi, came to the Indian subcontinent on the instruction of Bahá’u’lláh. He spread the message of the Baha’i Faith from 1872-1898 in areas including the Indian subcontinent, Burma, Kashmir, Afghanistan and Turkey. Jamál Effendi had a comprehensive meeting with Mirza Ghulam Ahmed in which he gave Mirza Ghulam Ahmed the glad-tidings of the appearance of The Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. He also granted him with a trunk filled with Baha’i Writings for him to study them. Mirza Ghulam Ahmed in his book Al-Balagh (also known as Faryad-e-Dard) mentions a detailed list of his academic studies where he also mentions The Bábi literature. Before claiming to be the Mehdi and the second coming of the Christ, he had read the Bábi and Baha’i literature. (Personal opinion: It is apparent that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed took help from the Bábi and Baha’i literature in trying to justify his later claims. It also gives me hints as to why some of the reformative teachings of Ahmadiyya Movement are similar to the Baha’i Writings for example the forbiddance of physical Jihad, ignoring for a moment that Ahmedis did not follow it faithfully. It is also of mention here that some views of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed were exactly in accordance with the conventionally held Islamic beliefs and later on they came in accordance with the Baha’I Faith. For example, Mirza Ghulam Ahmed first had the belief that Jesus Christ was taken up in the skies with his bodily existence and did not die on the cross. But, later on, when he made the claim to be the symbolic second coming of the Christ, he changed his view and brought it in alignment with the Baha’i view that Christ had died on the cross and that the second coming is spiritual and not physical.)

Did Mirza Ghulam Ahmad copy his claims from the Baha’i?

So, your choice, where do you think he got his ideas from?

Regards Tony

Okay, so Baha'is believe he was a false Messiah? How about Joseph Smith? How about the founder of the Sikhs? Or the Jains? All these movements are part of the evolving or "progression" of religions aren't they? But some are man-made and some are from God as revealed by a messenger?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And why do you not believe the JW's or the Mormons or some of the other Christians? They can say the same thing... "Is it a joke to you? Don't you know the Devil has deceived you? Jesus is coming soon to destroy the works of the Devil."

So they are wrong... and we shouldn't listen to their warning? But, we should listen to the Baha'is and their warning?

Your choice CG. Did Jesus offer that at the end of the age, that the truth will be found in all the pepole calling our in Jesus Name?

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

He ushered it in but those who held the fate of humanity in their hands -- the kings and rulers -- did not accept His plan for peace.

They would have accepted it if God or the Iranian preacher had put forward proof and evidence. Since they did not, the kings and rulers considered him as another fake crack-pot and threw the message in the waste-paper basket.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Okay, so Baha'is believe he was a false Messiah? How about Joseph Smith? How about the founder of the Sikhs? Or the Jains? All these movements are part of the evolving or "progression" of religions aren't they? But some are man-made and some are from God as revealed by a messenger?

If that is of interest to you CG, please undertake a search. I have answered that question from you, at least a dozen times.

Regards Tony

 

[night912]

Can you explain why, if people want to or are willing to relinquish that faith, they have not done so?

Before I answer your question, I have to say this, if you don't know the answer to your question then you are either being dishonest to yourself and/or others, lying, or delusional and being irrational.

The majority, if not all humans, believe in something because they are convinced that it's true and not relinquish that belief until they no longer believe that it's true and replace it with something new.

Now for the answer to your question, they have not relinquish their current religious beliefs and convert to your religion is due to not believing that your religion is true.

Now can you answer my question. Explain to me why you are not a Christian?

 

[CG Didymus]

Some may see a lifeline as disrespectful. Some may see it as a genuine offer of a chance of moving towards a safer world. Then there are those saying and asking why Baha'i do not do more, and when they do more, still find fault.

Tell me how there can be a win win situation?

We could be more like Arthra, that may indeed be better.

Regards Tony

The lifeline is not what is being disrespectful. Not caring or understanding the beliefs of others and making your beliefs out to be the truth is the problem. But, you know how lifelines work.... "Jesus loves you. Just admit you're a lost sinful person... and come to Jesus and be saved." For you it's worse... "Renounce your false religion. It is from the Devil. And accept Jesus into your heart. You know their methods of "witnessing". Baha'is, although they say they don't proselytize, aren't that much different. What we are hearing is that what we believe is wrong and what you belief is the truth. Then, when asked for proof, things get ugly. "I can't prove it, but I have proved it to myself." "I didn't claim anything, so I don't have to prove anything." Where does that get us?

 

[CG Didymus]

If that is of interest to you CG, please undertake a search. I have answered that question from you, at least a dozen times.

Regards Tony

It's not always for me. It is for the others to hear too. Like if you were giving a talk about the Baha'i Faith, there might be several people that have heard you speak before. But there would be lots of people that hadn't heard you. And you'd have to repeat some of the same things. So, what was Joseph Smith a prophet? He said an angel spoke to him? A conman? He said he translated a book that says that Jesus came to the Americas. Is that true or is that false?

If you say "false" then for some people, his claims aren't that much different than Baha'u'llah's... except his are even greater.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hmmm? So you say when a religion was revealed, it was pristine. So whenever Hinduism was first revealed, it was pristine. But you don't know when that was. That's all I needed to know. Baha'is say things but can't support the things they say. That might not be God's flaw, but there's something flawed about it.

Only in your eyes.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Dalai Lama put out a peace plan years ago, but who cares what he says... right? And Hindu sages and gurus don't have any solutions... whatsoever? Is that you speaking or is the from Baha'u'llah? Oh and what about Sikhs? No solutions?

I only care about Baha'u'llah's peace plan because I believe it is the solution. I am a Baha'i, not a Hindu.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because there is one God and one truth?

There is one God but God's truth is limitless. The spiritual truths are eternal but mankind needs more than those to survive and thrive on planet earth. That is why God sends new Messengers with a new message in every age.

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213

 

[Trailblazer]

Not caring or understanding the beliefs of others and making your beliefs out to be the truth is the problem.

But for some strange reason the fact that all those of the older religions not caring or understanding the beliefs of others and making only their beliefs out to be the truth is not a problem for you. I guess you cannot understand that is a double standard.

 

[Trailblazer]

You create topics and posts that require replies. Arthra does not do that and does not get into controversies. You are into evangelism, he is not. See the difference?

Spare me. Lol, 100000000000000000000000000 times lol.
Look at what is in my OP. It is not about the Baha'i Faith or Baha'u'llah. It was a conversation I was having with Questioning Mind. Whenever I post threads about God or Messengers it is never ME who brings up Baha'ullah, it is always someone else... and then they carry on and on and on and on... I have been trying to get off this thread for two weeks.

So, for 800 more years (1000 - 200 years since the Iranian preacher), you will not have women in your House of Justice. I think Allah needs to send a new manifestation immediately.

I am a woman and I could not care less.

 

[Trailblazer]

They would have accepted it if God or the Iranian preacher had put forward proof and evidence. Since they did not, the kings and rulers considered him as another fake crack-pot and threw the message in the waste-paper basket.

Maybe you forgot about when Baha'u'llah offered to do a miracle for the Muslims and they didn't show up... I guess they did not really want to know who He was.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Whenever I post threads about God or Messengers it is never ME ..

Atheists find God / Allah / Prophets / sons / Messengers / Manifestations / Mahdis as inviting as a Lahori kebab or Hyderabadi biryani.

Maybe you forgot about when Baha'u'llah offered to do a miracle for the Muslims and they didn't show up... I guess they did not really want to know who He was.

He should have shown it when he was in Siyah Chal exchanging views with the 'Maid of Heaven'.

We could be more like Arthra, that may indeed be better.

You may suggest this to Trailblazer also.

 

[Trailblazer]

Before I answer your question, I have to say this, if you don't know the answer to your question then you are either being dishonest to yourself and/or others, lying, or delusional and being irrational.

The majority, if not all humans, believe in something because they are convinced that it's true and not relinquish that belief until they no longer believe that it's true and replace it with something new.

Now for the answer to your question, they have not relinquish their current religious beliefs and convert to your religion is due to not believing that your religion is true.

Of course that is the reason they will not relinquish their religion, they are convinced that it is true, but that is not what this conversation was about, it was about what more people do not recognize a new Messenger:

I said: "very few of those people want to or are willing to relinquish that faith that is the MAIN reason why only a few people recognize a new Messenger when He appears on earth."

Now can you answer my question. Explain to me why you are not a Christian?

Because I do not believe Christianity is the current religion that God wants me to follow.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I said: "very few of those people want to or are willing to relinquish that faith that is the MAIN reason why only a few people recognize a new Messenger when He appears on earth."

Why should they when no evidence or proof is offered, just talk, talk and talk?
Basically God's / Allah's method of sending messages is a complete failure and reflects badly on God's / Allah's intelligence itself. It has done nothing other than creating strife in the world again and again.

.. the fact that all those of the older religions not caring or understanding the beliefs of others and making only their beliefs out to be the truth is not a problem for you.

Same for your religion. You say that other religions were good for their times and have become out-dated, corrupted now. The other religions feel no necessity to make any change. They also have hymns of peace and brotherhood. So, what is new?